Why is God so hidden? Why must we seek Him to Find Him?

[Shempster]

The way I know Him now is nothing like I "knew" God when I was younger. But I would never have known Him like I do now if it were not for the years of 1. Praying 2.studying scriptures 3. taking notes about my experiences and comparing them to the bible and modern science...I could go on and on. What I am wondering is that if I had not done all of that over the last 20 years I might have no clue who He is or even if He even exists in the first place.

So why is it that God hides himself so cleverly? So much so that honestly nobody can really PROVE any doctrine because there is always a verse to debunk the theory.

Thoughts?

 

[Demetrius194]

The answer to this question lies in ancient history of humankind, when Adam and Eve were the only representatives of humankind yet. At that time God was with them, accessible to them, there was no need to seek him, he was always around, walking in the Garden periodically, talking with them. And then, when Adam and Eve broken the rule that God warned them will cause them to die, he threw them out from his presence. So, the current "hiddenness" of God is just the still present consequence of a disobedience on the part of our ancient parents. It's almost like being born in a Muslim-majority country: most likely you will adopt Islam. It's just the way of things, it's a curse that's still looming over mankind. Only the lucky few get chosen by God to be saved among men ("few are chosen").

As for why must we seek to find him, it is just the way things work with God, it's his spiritual physics, so to say: draw close to him and he will draw close to you, whoever keeps on seeking shall find, etc. We don't have to do it, but don't we want to be saved? Or maybe we are among the lazy and proud-in-self-conceit reprobates who will never see the light of day for eternity? It is hard to say though who will be saved in the end. Someone who walks saved now may fall into unbelief later or renounce faith under torture, and someone who have been ungodly till the last, finally calls on Jesus as on Savior, full of tears and repentance, and receives by faith the salvation from hell. By seeking him out and then continuing in him (i.e. continuing in walking in clear conscience and fullness of God dwelling on the inside, while believing that we are have Christ the Salvation in us and are currently saved as a result), we just make our calling and election the surer that way. Yes, we may be among the condemned in the future, but if we give up, we surely shall be. It's the chance that is only worth it, due to the length of the everlasting torture of hell.

 

[SkyWriting]

The way I know Him now is nothing like I "knew" God when I was younger. But I would never have known Him like I do now if it were not for the years of 1. Praying 2.studying scriptures 3. taking notes about my experiences and comparing them to the bible and modern science...I could go on and on. What I am wondering is that if I had not done all of that over the last 20 years I might have no clue who He is or even if He even exists in the first place.So why is it that God hides himself so cleverly? So much so that honestly nobody can really PROVE any doctrine because there is always a verse to debunk the theory.Thoughts?

Adam and Eve had walked with God in the Garden where man choose to disobey God.
8 They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

So you can see, we are in hiding.

 

[The Cadet]

So, the current "hiddenness" of God is just the still present consequence of a disobedience on the part of our ancient parents. It's almost like being born in a Muslim-majority country: most likely you will adopt Islam. It's just the way of things, it's a curse that's still looming over mankind. Only the lucky few get chosen by God to be saved among men ("few are chosen").

Question. Do you believe in a literal hell?

 

[Shempster]

Question. Do you believe in a literal hell?

First I will say that it really doesnt matter what I believe. Mostly because it is always subject to change. I believe differently than I did just 1 year ago (all within the bounds of Christianity)

At this point I do not see an eternity of torture in the biblefor humans. Only Satan and the fallen angels. It seems as though the wicked will cease to exist after the last judgement.

 

[The Cadet]

First I will say that it really doesnt matter what I believe. Mostly because it is always subject to change. I believe differently than I did just 1 year ago (all within the bounds of Christianity)

At this point I do not see an eternity of torture in the biblefor humans. Only Satan and the fallen angels. It seems as though the wicked will cease to exist after the last judgement.

Fair enough, I'll take it. (Belief that God is somehow "punishing" us for the actions of our ancestors by remaining hidden, combined with the belief in a literal fire-and-brimstone hell, necessarily paints the picture of a moral monster.)

 

[de1929]

The way I know Him now is nothing like I "knew" God when I was younger. But I would never have known Him like I do now if it were not for the years of 1. Praying 2.studying scriptures 3. taking notes about my experiences and comparing them to the bible and modern science...I could go on and on. What I am wondering is that if I had not done all of that over the last 20 years I might have no clue who He is or even if He even exists in the first place.

So why is it that God hides himself so cleverly? So much so that honestly nobody can really PROVE any doctrine because there is always a verse to debunk the theory.

Thoughts?

the devil stole the informations. We received not 100% perfect informations. It's devil faults. Proof is on gospel. Matthew 13:24-30

 

[The Cadet]

devil stole the informations. We received not 100% perfect informations. It's devil faults.

Does God care?

 

[de1929]

Does God care?

Yes He does ... that's why there is things called christian universalism... as safety net.

 

[The Cadet]

Yes He does ... that's why there is things called christian universalism... as safety net.

I've actually never heard of that. An interesting philosophy, to be sure.

 

[de1929]

I've actually never heard of that. An interesting philosophy, to be sure.

here is the wiki...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Universalism

 

[com7fy8]

The way I know Him now is nothing like I "knew" God when I was younger. But I would never have known Him like I do now if it were not for the years of 1. Praying 2.studying scriptures 3. taking notes about my experiences and comparing them to the bible and modern science...I could go on and on.

Hi, Shempster I am Bill . . . good to meet you, God bless you and your family

There is knowing by means of study and reading and research. And there is knowing by experience > and our experience of God can be to experience things God does in our lives, and we can experience how He Himself is, in us >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

And it says,

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, we can know God personally, by submitting to how He personally rules us in our "hearts" < very personal . . . right in our "hearts", Paul says. We all are called to this > "in one body".

What I am wondering is that if I had not done all of that over the last 20 years I might have no clue who He is or even if He even exists in the first place.

Study and prayer can help, but we need how God personally demonstrates His love meaning of His word

So why is it that God hides himself so cleverly?

Our own nature makes us so we experience or do not experience God. It is like the Bible says > there are people who are blind. In case a "dark" blind person has never seen a color > no matter what you tell the person about colors, no way can the blind person know what you are talking about, though he or she might know words of theory and explanation.

Like this > God is our Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit > the family Being Supreme of family caring and sharing love. So, God is this personal, not only to be known in study and words of revelation. Even if God were to personally explain to you everything, if you and I do not become personally loving with Him, we do not discover how He is. But in His love, by becoming gentle and humble in all-loving love, we become personally loving with Him so we know Him >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

We truly get to know Him, by how His love cures us in our nature, so that "as He is, so are we in this world."

So, if you have a family, you can get to know God by learning how to love as family with Him And become personally loving with any and all people, howsoever He has us loving. And with this we come to truly know Him, deeper than any doctrine and beliefs can tell >

"to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." (Ephesians 3:19)

So much so that honestly nobody can really PROVE any doctrine because there is always a verse to debunk the theory.

But with God we can discover what He means by His word. The meaning, by the way, "often" is better than any of the views and ideas which arguing people are trying to prove. Both "sides" of an argument can be wrong. Twenty different representations can all be wrong. But, Shempster, even while Satan's kingdom can have things set up to make it look as though no one can figure out what God's word means > we have this unconditional guarantee from God Himself >

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)

God Himself with us shall do all that His word means to Him; so simply trust Him to do all that is His word, and enjoy and rest in the LORD (Psalm 37:7, Matthew 11:28-30) . . . but also seeking Him for His correction which is not "joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it." (in Hebrews 12:11)

So, with God's correction we have His own love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness" in us. But there are people who think that by getting saved we only are "declared" righteous, but they do not say we need deep correction of our nature so we become righteous in His peace like He is. They have "faith" to believe they are righteous but they do not actually experience how in His love we have His "peaceable fruit of righteousness". And they can keep on sinning and having various trouble and torments of personality, which God's love would cure them of having > 1 John 4:18, James 5:16, Galatians 6:1.

So, God's word has the love meaning of how we share personally with God Himself and with one another as His family.

Therefore, Shempster, because people are impersonal, just using other people . . . they are not in God's personally caring and sharing love; so they miss out, because of their using and trying to just control people. And in our own free wills we can seek to be our own dictators, instead of personally submitting to our Father. Our own self's free willing and its human efforts can keep us from truly knowing God > Jesus says, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me," in Luke 9:23.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The heart and core of the Christian religion is conversion, from the self-centered creature to the servant. Scripture and doctrine are useful, but it is the Holy Spirit that brings us to that place. Along the way our old self will die, gradually and largely unnoticed by even those around us. Our earthly reward is becoming masters of service in everything we do. This cannot be 'preached' into us as it's the work of God over time, through the Spirit. So it is the Spirit within that is the presence of God.

 

[Extraneous]

Maybe God created death so we would be humbled by it and know who is in control. Perhaps our blindness, which impairs our ability to see God, is meant to show us our weakness as well. I personally think its all about growing in the knowledge of God.

 

[FireDragon76]

I tend to think now days God is uknowable and religion is a futile exercise. We are always making up a god to fulfill some inner psychological need. That includes clergy of the various Protestant and Catholic denominations.

The God of Christian apologetics is also not the God of Christian faith. The God of Christian faith is an idol, and the God of philosophy, irrelevant.

I think real spirituality should be humanistic and look at addressing the human condition. It is here that Asian, and in particular Chinese philosophers, were on the right track.

 

[SteveB28]

There is another, fairly obvious, answer to the question.

 

[Extraneous]

Experiencing God from a spiritual reality is only achieved through faith in Christ. Christ opens our spiritual eyes. Nature is a shadow of our spiritual reality. God did not create things in vain, all creation declares his glory.

 

[Nithavela]

God didn't seem to have much of a problem communicating with humans after the fall, at least in the time of the old testament. They even had a special "talking to god" tent, with a cloud forming around it when the big man was in.

 

[Rajni]

So why is it that God hides himself so cleverly? So much so that honestly nobody can really PROVE any doctrine because there is always a verse to debunk the theory.

I don't know why, but at times I do find it rather annoying.

Then there's always the possibility that the non-dualists are
right, and that God is in plain sight, in the form of us, as we
are manifestations of Him. But I don't like that conclusion
because I really want God to be "other", a separate entity
with whom I can have a relationship. I don't want to be just
another one of His sock-puppets, so to speak. He may as
well not even exist if that's the case (in my mind). As one
Hindu mystic said, "I want to eat sugar. I don't want to be
sugar."

-

 

[Extraneous]

In the past God spoke through prophets. God promised that he would open a new covenant with mankind. The bible says that God will write his laws on the hearts of men instead of speaking through prophets. This is the gospel message. This was Gods promise and its true. God is amazing and alive. He peers into our hearts and sees everything. He created us and has given us gift. Where were you before you were born? You were nothing, but now God has given you a gift. You exist. What other gifts does he have for us?

Matthew 7:9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!