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Why is God hidden, invisible, unprovable?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Davidz777, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    God is invisible for our sakes---we can not look upon God and live. He is a consuming fire to the unsaved. Sin simply can not live in the presence of a Holy God, only through His Son.

    Deu_4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
    Deu_9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
    Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

    Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
    Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
    Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
    Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

    It also develops faith. Without which, we can not be saved.
     
  2. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are here on earth for a very short time. Our existence is beyond the flesh that we know, it is also spiritual. God did walk with Adam and Eve and He revealed Himself to them (us) in the beginning. They sinned, we all fell out of grace but now we have been regenerated with Him again through His Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The Holy Spirit binds us into one, The Body of Christ. Without the regeneration through the Holy Spirit, no one can know God.
    Blessings
     
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  3. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    PS: You will know if you have the Holy Spirit when there is no longer any need for God to prove Himself.
     
  4. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No one has seen God [the father] at any time
     
  5. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    John 14:9 Jesus replied, "Philip, I have been with you all ...
    [​IMG]John 14:9 Jesus replied, "Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
    The Way, the Truth, and the Life. …8Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us." 9Jesus replied, "Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.

    JOHN 14:9 KJV "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time ...
    [​IMG]JOHN 14:9 KJV "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that..."
    John 14:9 Context. 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

    100 Bible Verses about If Youve Seen Me Youve Seen The Father
    [​IMG]What Does the Bible Say About If Youve Seen Me Youve Seen The Father?
    No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him." Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip?
     
  6. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be forgetting the biblical miracles, and all the miracles people claim to have experienced since. The proof for God starts with the incarnation and the resurrection, and all the people who saw a previously dead man.
     
  7. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    "Tradition" for billions of people does not require "knowing" Scripture at all, nor agreeing with Scripture.
     
  8. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Proof has to do with math. Every letter in the Hebrew alphabet has a numerical value. They call this gematria. The problem is that you have to be advanced to study and understand this. There are people with a PhD in science that would be doing good to function at a third grade level when it comes to the Bible. Most of the ancient wisdom and knowledge has been preserved by the Hasidic Kabbalah Rabbi's. Those are the people that do not cut their beard. A lot of science began with this hidden mystical teaching. Recently they have been putting a lot of their teaching into English books to make this available for everyone that is interested. There is also a lot available on youtube. I mostly just study the symbolic meaning of the letters. I do not get to much into Bible codes and the numeric value of the letters.

    One evidence has to do with numbers that can not be generated in anyway. They can only be divided by one and itself. So these numbers could not have evolved in anyway. They have to go back to God Himself.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  9. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    As far as the "physical"

    1 Timothy 6:15–17, “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion.”

    1 Timothy 1:17, “To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory.”

    1 John 4:12, “No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us.”

    Exodus 33:20, “He [God] said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.’

    Deuteronomy 4:12, “Then the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of words, but saw no form; there was only a voice.”

    Reason for Jesus (who is God) who came to earth in the form of a man ... is why He (Jesus) could be seen. He embodied fallen flesh (through Adam), yet His deity was fully in tact ... did not sin.

    John 14:9
    New International Version
    Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

    Human bodies must be changed before they can appear before God, because of the fallen flesh all inherit through Adam. We will get new bodies (spiritual bodies) when Jesus returns and the 1st resurrection happens.

    2 Corinthians 5 New Living Translation (NLT)
    New Bodies

    5 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
     
  10. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    I guess you haven't heard of the Kalam Cosmological Argument, or the Argument from Contingency, or the Moral Argument, or the Teleological Arguments, and so on. There are all sorts of great arguments for God's existence.

    Atheistic resistance to theism has, at bottom, nothing to do with "scientific evidence" but with the selfish, prideful, rebellious human heart.

    Sure I can. His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am His child. He convicts me of sin, strengthens me in times of temptation and trial, comforts me in sorrow and sickness, illuminates my mind to His truth, and transforms my character and desires in conformity to His own.

    The wind is also invisible, so is integrity, and love, and peace. Can you boil courage in a test tube, or weigh honesty on a scale? Invisibility does not necessitate non-existence.

    I once accidently pounded my thumb with a hammer. It hurt like blazes! My thumb turned black and blue and the nail fell off. I can tell you with great certainty this happened. Can I prove to you that it did? Can I take you back in time to show you the moment when I smashed my thumb with a hammer? No. Does this mean the event didn't happen and my certainty is unwarranted? Of course not.

    He did create a universe. And He took on flesh and dwelt among us for thirty-three years. God has not been sneaking around, trying to obscure Himself from us as much as possible.

    In context, this verse isn't about God hiding Himself, but about obscuring prophecy from the "wise and learned" and revealing it instead to "little children." Jesus goes on to say:

    Matthew 11:27
    27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.


    So, God reveals himself to those whom the Son has chosen for such revelation. He is not hiding away from everyone.

    This is speaking of Christ who is "the image of the invisible God," which is to say, God in the flesh, a God we can see and touch, who is not invisible, hidden away from human eyes.

    But here again, we aren't reading that God hides from everyone, keeping Himself a perennial unknown, but that Jesus would not do tricks for the doubting, adulterous, and evil Pharisees.

    But humans have seen the Father in the Son.

    John 14:9
    9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
     
  11. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    Biology has the fingerprints of the Creator all over it. Biological systems provide strong evidence for God.
    Cosmic fine tuning of the universe also provides evidence that the universe was created for sentient life on this planet, at least, and that the Creator exists and created it all.
     
  12. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    People everywhere have forgotten, or never know, this. The whole world is dwelling in deception, it is a dangerous and evil world/society.
     
  13. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Reading some posts trying to show you that God exists, or was seen as Christ in person, and other such things as you clearly already know....I've run into this at times -- it's so easy for people to guess wrongly what a post is about and react to some other posts from the past from other people saying entirely different things than you are. I've found over time it helps to have a kind of introduction sentence, or at least to start by somehow making it clear to people I'm not writing some familiar thing they are waiting to react to, but instead am talking about a thing less commonly discussed. Ways to make that clear early, so as to prevent some of the mis-guessing about what you are writing about. Something to help them avoid pigeonholing you the wrong way. It's challenging at times on the internet! One thing is a lot won't read past about 1 medium paragraph, and so when you included a few unorthodox views, it may have caused some to jump to a conclusion past what you said.
    I think you raised some other issues past the main one you intended by mentioning several unusual viewpoints, and you'd be better off if you want to discuss those other issues like scriptural accuracy and such with someone like me that won't confuse things like science into it in a uninformed way. :) Of course God as creator has to have created physics, but then would not have to micromanage that very physics after that first instant. Many end up arguing about nothing as they don't realize science is merely and only the effort to try to understand nature and how it works.
     
  14. Davidz777

    Davidz777 Newbie

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    A few have answered with familiar Christian responses but none of those things provides certain evidence that atheist science and the secular world will do more than grant such is at least possible. In other words, the fact God supposedly performed an obvious miracle in the ancient Bible text or subsequently in the pre-modern area will in this modern era have little impact as viewed from skeptical those that don't believe and that is a primary point of my introductory post. In fact that is why it is key for we Christians to go beyond what we ourselves believe and or lean towards and address what the secular world challenges us to explain. In any case I welcome such inputs as it fills out arguments to the status quo.
     
  15. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be the case that one is responsible for the revelation that they reject. The greater the revelation the greater the condemnation when one rejects it. Though it could be for other things, the veil appears to act as mercy in that regard.

    Matthew 11:21-22
    “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you."​
     
  16. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    We'd come to realize -- after reflecting that God created all that is (not only some of what is...) -- that God as creator would have to have created physics itself.

    Science then is His -- physics is the fundamental science: all other science flows from physics.

    ----
    (there is no 'atheist science', through of course many atheists attempt to make it seem as if some science contradicts the bible, which none does to my knowledge, and I've read through the bible, and extensively in the sciences; some observations do contradict some notions/ideas people try to derive from the Bible though, such as flat Earth for an extreme example...or for another the assumptions added to get to the 'young earth' ideas/theories, which obviously were not good assumptions to add on top of scripture.)
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Factchecker

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    Not as he normally is. He has, however, made a representation of himself visible to mortals from time to time. Moses, for instance, saw him in human form.
     
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  18. Davidz777

    Davidz777 Newbie

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    Although the Bible itself states the physical nature of God may be invisible, the more important issue that addresses this thread is that his works if such exist are not visible in a way the secular world might believe although God could easily do so as I speculated. Thus the more important question is WHY has God chosen to do so especially since as I've noted that is what most agnostics and atheist blurt out first as the prime reason for their disbelief?
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Well, I had an experience with GOD via the Bible that changed my life and I used to be an atheist. Yes, God is an invisible spirit (to most of mankind throughout history), but like the wind being invisible, we still feel its effects; So the same is true with GOD. We can experience GOD and feel the change He makes in our life when we seek forgiveness of our sins with the Lord Jesus Christ and in believing that He died and was risen from the grave three days later on our behalf.

    But if you are looking for some kind of proof that GOD is true, there are tons of evidences that back up the Bible. This is the key factor in showing that are faith is not a blind faith but it is a reasonable faith based on many proofs or facts.

    Check out my Blogger article here to learn more about them (if you are interested):

    Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  20. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    And that point has been brought up before and is highly debatable as scripture points out God visiting with people at different points within the bible. Especially in the case of Jesus:

    John 14:9

    Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
     
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