Why is gluttony a sin?

[JackRT]

Wrath?

Yes, wrath.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, wrath.

How is it rooted in selfishness?

 

[JackRT]

How is it rooted in selfishness?

Wrath is a strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire. It's opposite is compassion, a concern for the other party --- the opposite of selfishness.

 

[Northbrook]

Well, after reading all the posts you have been kind enough to post on my thread, I am going to come away with the idea that gluttony is a sin because it is FRIENDSHIP WITH THE WORLD.

 

[Ken-1122]

Wrath is a strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire. It's opposite is compassion, a concern for the other party --- the opposite of selfishness.

Doesn't John 3:36 mention the "wrath of God"? How could wrath be a sin, if an entity that never sins is capable of it?

 

[JackRT]

Doesn't John 3:36 mention the "wrath of God"? How could wrath be a sin, if an entity that never sins is capable of it?

How indeed.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Wrath is a strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire. It's opposite is compassion, a concern for the other party --- the opposite of selfishness.

I can understand why you think wrath is the "opposite" of compassion. I just don't see anything inherently "selfish" about it.

I mean, if you're going to place all emotions in such a broad dichotomy...then just about everything apart from dispassionate altruism is "selfishness".

 

[Ken-1122]

How indeed.

Just another one of those contradictions I suppose.

 

[jayem]

And some have wasted a portion of their lives debating just what the fruit was.

True. Not to belabor the point, but if the Garden of Eden legend originated in the Middle East, then a fig, or date, or pomegranate would be more realistic. They're native to the area, whereas the nearest natural habitat for apples is central Asia. Thinking the Tree of Knowledge fruit was an apple is one of those modifications of Bible events by Europeans in the Middle Ages to fit their cultural milieu. Like the artistic portrayals of Jesus as fair-skinned, with light hair and blue eyes.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why is gluttony a sin?

Fundamentally the sin of gluttony is the sin of saying "Me instead of thee", that is it is at its heart selfishness, to place one's own desire above the needs of others.

It's not simply eating too much at the Christmas family dinner. It is an indulgence of the appetites to gratify the self, and satisfy ourselves at the expense of others.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

When St. Paul speaks of "the flesh" many theologians use other terms to mean the same thing, in the West we have often spoken of concupiscence, which roughly translates to "lusts" or "desires". Concupiscence would be defined in Lutheran circles as homo incurvatus in se, or man curved/bent inward upon himself.

It's not desire itself that is the problem, that is, it's not the appetites themselves that are problematic. The problem is that on account of the inborn problem of sin the appetites are malformed toward selfishness, for the pursuit of myself over and against my neighbor. It's not that I'm hungry and need food to sustain the body, it's that I may be willing to take food from someone who needs it more than I do. It's that the appetites are malformed, misshapen, curved and bent; our inborn condition means having a warped humanity that seeks itself self rather than others.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

True. Not to belabor the point, but if the Garden of Eden legend originated in the Middle East, then a fig, or date, or pomegranate would be more realistic. They're native to the area, whereas the nearest natural habitat for apples is central Asia. Thinking the Tree of Knowledge fruit was an apple is one of those modifications of Bible events by Europeans in the Middle Ages to fit their cultural milieu. Like the artistic portrayals of Jesus as fair-skinned, with light hair and blue eyes.

It's also a bit of a word thing. The words for "evil" and "apple" are homonyms in Latin.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ken-1122]

Fundamentally the sin of gluttony is the sin of saying "Me instead of thee",

Who is this “thee” that you speak of? Other people or God.

that is it is at its heart selfishness, to place one's own desire above the needs of others.

To what extent? If I desire to own my own home, and there is someone else out there who need a home to live in, that I shouldn’t be allowed to own my own home as long as there are homeless people out there? Or am I misunderstanding you; please explain.

It's not simply eating too much at the Christmas family dinner. It is an indulgence of the appetites to gratify the self,

What does that mean? What is the difference between eating food that you find delicious, vs indulgence of the appetite to gratify the self?

and satisfy ourselves at the expense of others.

-CryptoLutheran

What does it mean to satisfy yourself at the expense of others? Are you talking about stealing someone else's food for yourself? Or eating food when there are others who don’t have enough to eat? Or something else; please explain what you mean by this.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Who is this “thee” that you speak of? Other people or God.

I guess technically both. But as I intended it I meant other people.

To what extent? If I desire to own my own home, and there is someone else out there who need a home to live in, that I shouldn’t be allowed to own my own home as long as there are homeless people out there? Or am I misunderstanding you; please explain.

I think a little common sense goes a long way. Nothing wrong with desiring a home, a family, a car, a well paying job, etc or having any of these things.

What does that mean? What is the difference between eating food that you find delicious, vs indulgence of the appetite to gratify the self?

Could be anything tiny such as waiting till everyone at the table has had a chance to eat before going for seconds, or if someone is at McDonalds and can't afford their meal then paying for them. I'm not really talking about anything drastic here.

What does it mean to satisfy yourself at the expense of others? Are you talking about stealing someone else's food for yourself? Or eating food when there are others who don’t have enough to eat? Or something else; please explain what you mean by this.

I simply mean being concerned with the needs of others. Say you just bought lunch, then see a homeless guy whose hungry, maybe split your lunch with them, or give them your lunch.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Loss of self control leads to weakness of will in general, which leads to inability to resist what ought to be resisted.

"Srila Sridhara Svami explains in this regard that just as a moth is killed by its attraction to the form of fire, similarly a bee can easily be killed by exploiting its attraction to the fragrance of flowers. Furthermore, hunters may trap and kill an elephant by exploiting its sensuous desire to touch a captive female elephant and may also kill a deer by attracting it with the sounds of their horns; and a fish is killed by its desire to taste the bait on a hook. Thus, one who desires to learn detachment from material illusion should accept these five helpless creatures as guru and learn the needful."

http://www.srimadbhagavatamclass.com/srimad-bhagavatam-canto-11-chapter-08-text-07/

 

[Ken-1122]

I think a little common sense goes a long way. Nothing wrong with desiring a home, a family, a car, a well paying job, etc or having any of these things.

Perhaps you can give me an example of placing your desires over the needs of others so I can understand what you are talking about

Could be anything tiny such as waiting till everyone at the table has had a chance to eat before going for seconds,

So if I get done eating before others, I shouldn’t get a second helping until everyone at the table has completed their first helping? This sounds more like a table manners issue rather than a deadly sin to me. And how does table manners make the list of most deadly sins, but rape, genocide, using God’s name to cause harm and control others, slavery, and other such evils did not make the cut? Sounds like a priority issue to me; what do you think?

I simply mean being concerned with the needs of others.

But that’s not what you said; you said "satisfying yourself at the expense of others." That means you are causing harm to others while benefiting yourself. One can neglect to help someone in need without causing that person harm.

 

[Catholic Values Voter]

Why is gluttony a sin?

People who overeat get fat and will subsequently die early from a health-related problem.

 

[Ken-1122]

People who overeat get fat and will subsequently die early from a health-related problem.

Not everyone who eats a lot gets fat, and not everyone who is fat eats a lot. So is it the amount you eat that is the sin? Or is it allowing yourself to get fat that is the sin.

 

[Catholic Values Voter]

Not everyone who eats a lot gets fat, and not everyone who is fat eats a lot. So is it the amount you eat that is the sin? Or is it allowing yourself to get fat that is the sin.

I don't know of a single person who eats fast food daily and doesn't end up getting fat. Care to share anyone you know who eats unhealthy and is in-shape?

 

[RDKirk]

I don't know of a single person who eats fast food daily and doesn't end up getting fat. Care to share anyone you know who eats unhealthy and is in-shape?

Depends on how you define "in shape."

I know people who are very thin, but in terrible shape.

I define "in shape" according to performance. I'd call someone with a VO2 max of 60 ml/kg/min "in shape" regardless of how much fat he was carrying (a sedentary person is about 35 ml/kg/min, a Tour de France cyclist is about 75 ml/kg/min). It would be an anomaly if someone with such a VO2 max were more than 15 percent fat, but I'd still call him "in shape."