Why is did God create us with the capacity to sin?

[bird]

11th April 2003 at 11:47 PM bird said this in Post #79




 

  

 

is this the god and father of our lord jesus christ?

 

"the god that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathesome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked:  his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire;  he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venemous serpent is in ours."   (jonathan edwards, enfield connecticut,  july 8, 1741)


 

bird

 

is this the god and father of our lord jesus christ?

bird

 

[bird]

11th April 2003 at 11:47 PM bird said this in Post #79




 

  

 

is this the god and father of our lord jesus christ?

 

"the god that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathesome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked:  his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire;  he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venemous serpent is in ours."   (jonathan edwards, enfield connecticut,  july 8, 1741)


 

bird

still no takers?  those who hold to calvinism...is this the god you know?

 

bird

 

[Jerry_M]

bird,

Seeing as that Jonathan Edwards sermon, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", was, and is, used by God to bring about the salvation of thousands, what is your beef?

It appears to me that God laughs at those who presume to judge Him and challenge His motives by using that which they detest to bring about His purposes.

(As a side note, you would do well to read Edwards. You might just learn a coherent theology from the man who has been described as the greatest American theologian.)

 

[bird]

Today at 02:16 PM Jerry_M said this in Post #83

bird,

Seeing as that Jonathan Edwards sermon, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", was, and is, used by God to bring about the salvation of thousands, what is your beef?

It appears to me that God laughs at those who presume to judge Him and challenge His motives by using that which they detest to bring about His purposes.

(As a side note, you would do well to read Edwards. You might just learn a coherent theology from the man who has been described as the greatest American theologian.)

 

jerry,

 

does the god and father of our lord jesus christ need to use manipulation and scare tactics to bring us to himself?  

 

i have read edwards, and i find he has a rather schizophrenic view of god. 

 

but my question was....with regard to the picture edwards paints of god, is this the god you know?  is this the god who is revealed in the face of jesus christ?  one who loathes and abhors his creation?

 

bird

 

[Reformationist]

Today at 07:04 AM bird said this in Post #84

but my question was....with regard to the picture edwards paints of god, is this the god you know?  is this the god who is revealed in the face of jesus christ?  one who loathes and abhors his creation? 

bird

First off, God does not abhor all of His creation.  He does, however, abhor evil.  Those who have not been made righteous by Him are evil in the eyes of the Lord.

Psalm 5:5
You hate all workers of iniquity.

God bless

 

[bird]

Today at 04:16 PM Reformationist said this in Post #85



First off, God does not abhor all of His creation.  He does, however, abhor evil.  Those who have not been made righteous by Him are evil in the eyes of the Lord.

Psalm 5:5
You hate all workers of iniquity.

God bless

 

reformationist,

 

have you read edwards' sermon "sinners in the hands of an angry god" in its entirety?

bird

 

[rnmomof7]

20th April 2003 at 11:03 AM bird said this in Post #82




still no takers?  those who hold to calvinism...is this the god you know?

 

bird

Yes it is the God I know. It is the crerator God that is Holy, Holy, Holy and despises sin.

It is the God that decided to come down here and rescue man Himself.

It is the God that had a plan of salvation that called on His son to come and hang on that cross as a propitiation for MY sin

 

[Reformationist]

Today at 08:27 AM bird said this in Post #86



 

reformationist,

 

have you read edwards' sermon "sinners in the hands of an angry god" in its entirety?

bird

No.  Do you know of a link where I can read it online?  I really like Jonathan Edwards so I'd enjoy reading it.  It would probably make me even more thankful for being rescued.

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 11:46 AM Reformationist said this in Post #88



No.  Do you know of a link where I can read it online?  I really like Jonathan Edwards so I'd enjoy reading it.  It would probably make me even more thankful for being rescued.

The sermon that is credited with beginning the great awakening

http://members.aol.com/jonathanedw/Edwards.html

If you do not want to download go here

http://www.jonathanedwards.com/sermons.htm

 

[Reformationist]

Today at 08:58 AM rnmomof7 said this in Post #89


The sermon that is credited with beginning the great awakening

http://members.aol.com/jonathanedw/Edwards.html

If you do not want to download go here

http://www.jonathanedwards.com/sermons.htm

Thanks.  I'm going to read those sermons now.

God bless,

Don

 

[bird]

Today at 04:38 PM rnmomof7 said this in Post #87




Yes it is the God I know. It is the crerator God that is Holy, Holy, Holy and despises sin.

It is the God that decided to come down here and rescue man Himself.

It is the God that had a plan of salvation that called on His son to come and hang on that cross as a propitiation for MY sin

 

momof7,

 

i could not help but notice you said that god despises sin.  do you mean that god is able to "hate the sin but love the sinner?"

 

you say that god decided to come down here and rescue man himself...i ask, when was that decision made?

 

you say that god had a plan and that jesus came to hang on the cross as the propitiation for "your" sin...i agree, but what are we to make then of john's words in I john 2?

"...and if any man sin, we have an advocate with the father, jesus christ the righteous:  and he is the propitiation for our sins:  and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

 

bird

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 12:01 PM bird said this in Post #91




 

momof7,

 

i could not help but notice you said that god despises sin.  do you mean that god is able to "hate the sin but love the sinner?"

 

I did not say he loves the sinner did i?

you say that god decided to come down here and rescue man himself...i ask, when was that decision made?

 

before the foundation of the earth

you say that god had a plan and that jesus came to hang on the cross as the propitiation for "your" sin...i agree, but what are we to make then of john's words in I john 2?

"...and if any man sin, we have an advocate with the father, jesus christ the righteous:  and he is the propitiation for our sins:  and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

 

bird

Indeed tis true..The blood of Chrsit is sufficent for all but effective only for the elect...
( BTW in this letter the "ours" was the disciples)...The point being that the sacrifice of Chrsit was not restricted to the jewish fishermen that were his disciples..but for the sins of gentiles as well....

kosmos {kos'-mos}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 3:868,459 probably from the base of 2865
Part of Speech
n m
Outline of Biblical Usage

1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars,
'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3

3) the world, the universe

4) the circle of the earth, the earth

5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family

6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ

7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly

a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ

8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)

b) of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19

No bird it was not a universal salvation

 

[bird]

Today at 05:10 PM rnmomof7 said this in Post #92



I did not say he loves the sinner did i?



Indeed tis true..The blood of Chrsit is sufficent for all but effective only for the elect...
( BTW in this letter the "ours" was the disciples)...The point being that the sacrifice of Chrsit was not restricted to the jewish fishermen that were his disciples..but for the sins of gentiles as well....

kosmos {kos'-mos}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 3:868,459 probably from the base of 2865
Part of Speech
n m
Outline of Biblical Usage

1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars,
'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3

3) the world, the universe

4) the circle of the earth, the earth

5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family

6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ

7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly

a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ

8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)

b) of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19

No bird it was not a universal salvation

 "this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that christ jesus came into the world to save sinners..."  (I tim. 1:15)

 

who among men is not a sinner?

 

bird

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 12:28 PM bird said this in Post #93




 "this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that christ jesus came into the world to save sinners..."  (I tim. 1:15)

 

who among men is not a sinner?

 

bird

bird ..it no where says all sinners..




Indeed heaven will be filled with sinners covered in the righteousness of Christ..

Hell will also be full of sinners.


God hates sin, and He hates unrepentant sinners..

 

[bird]

Today at 05:45 PM rnmomof7 said this in Post #94



bird ..it no where says all sinners..




Indeed heaven will be filled with sinners covered in the righteousness of Christ..

Hell will also be full of sinners.


God hates sin, and He hates unrepentant sinners..

aye, with forgiven sinners. 

would an "unrepentant sinner" then be one who refuses to acknowledge that his sins have been forgiven?

 

bird

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 01:23 PM bird said this in Post #95




aye, with forgiven sinners. 

would an "unrepentant sinner" then be one who refuses to acknowledge that his sins have been forgiven?

 

bird

No it is one that refuses to repent and believe

 

[bird]

Today at 06:49 PM rnmomof7 said this in Post #96




No it is one that refuses to repent and believe

are you saying that repentance is prior to forgiveness? 

 

bird

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 02:06 PM bird said this in Post #97




are you saying that repentance is prior to forgiveness? 

 

bird

Yes

 

[Reformationist]

Today at 11:06 AM bird said this in Post #97




are you saying that repentance is prior to forgiveness? 

 

bird

I would have to say, without hesitation, that the forgiveness of God is what results in our repentence so I'd most definitely say that God's forgiveness of His chosen comes before their acknowledgement of their sinfulness, and thus repentence.

God bless

 

[bird]

Today at 07:11 PM rnmomof7 said this in Post #98



Yes

let me see if  i am understanding you correctly.  what do you mean by repentance?   and what do you mean when you say that repentance is prior to forgiveness?

 

bird