Why is communism/socialism so popular..

[MKJ]

Is anyone here really advocating that the means of production be exclusively state-controlled?

 

[S.ilvio]

Their sins do not negate their authority. Recall Christ called the faithful to obedience to the Pharisees' .

Post crucifiction how long did adherence to Jewish Pharisees last for then..?

We can take scripture out of context and wrongly associate it with today's conditons.

There is no incongruance between christ's teachings and the radical Social Justice advocates witihn Liberation Theolgy as practiced by millions of Catholics around the 3rd world.

As we all know the Vatican is made up of human beings as prone to their environment as the rest of us. John Paul II worked in Iron Curtain poland and was obviously effected to by the totalitarian regime there, hence his vehement opposition to such regimes. I'd not disagree with him at all.

Also in Cold War times it was always wise to keep the Western powers onside.

however I believe in Democratic socialism whereby the People decide on on policies through elections. If the people decide they don't want socialist principles in Govt then so be it.

As we are going through our economic difficulties Left wing economic policies are becoming more popular rather thna less as the People see the humanitariann side to such ideals when contrated to the cold hearted Capitalist ideals that bankrupted us in the first place.

 

[S.ilvio]

Is anyone here really advocating that the means of production be exclusively state-controlled?

Not me...

 

[MKJ]

Not me...

Then you are probably not a socialist in the sense the Catholic Church means when she condemns socialism.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Democracy is mob rule; tyranny of the masses. Only a republic or monarchy governed and aligned along the principle of subsidiarity is best.

 

[S.ilvio]

Democracy is mob rule; tyranny of the masses. Only a republic or monarchy governed and aligned along the principle of subsidiarity is best.

Bowing and scraping to royalty isn't in my DNA I'm afraid and I'm subject to no man...

 

[Virgil the Roman]

All of Creation is hierarchical; we've all superiours to whom we owe allegiance and inferiours for whom we are responsible. Creation is hierarchical, for it is of Divine design; God at its head as King, Lord, Ruler, and Prime Monarch of all. Recall the Blessed Trinity (The Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost/The Paraclete) is 'Lord of Lords' and 'King of Kings'.

Below God is the hierarchical order of angels; below them, Man. Man has his own peculiar hierarchy. Below Man, a descending order of animals, then the same regarding plant-life. This is 'how' the universe and creation 'is'; rightly-ordered, yet never ordered with the sense of 'egalitarianism' that seems to permeate the West. The Egalitarianism stems really from the insurrection of Lucifer; that he would bow or serve no man---no one; when he uttered that famous: 'Non Serviam.' Egalitarian seems to negate and try do away with class, rank, and the hierarchy of Creation --- it is a pie-in-the-sky view and rather utopianistic (i.e. illusory).

Now, we all ought to be kindly and benevolent, obeying Christ and His Holy Roman Catholic Apostolic Christian Church and the morality of the same over common and popular dictates of social society; yet, no matter the rhetoric of one's speech, there will always remain a hierarchy of some sort; even in spite of what many of the utopia-pretenders of Socialism, Communism, Marxism, or Leninism may utter.

I leave with these parting words:

God willing, with the Grace of our Blessed Lord, 'we shall all meet merrily in Heaven'; this above all I desire and 'I wish every man, good'; in these words, I echo St Thomas More, my patron.


The Peace of Christ,
--Virgil the Roman

 

[S.ilvio]

All of Creation is hierarchical; we've all superiours to whom we owe allegiance and inferiours for whom we are responsible. Creation is hierarchical, for it is of Divine design; God at its head as King, Lord, Ruler, and Prime Monarch of all. Recall the Blessed Trinity (The Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost/The Paraclete) is 'Lord of Lords' and 'King of Kings'.

Below God is the hierarchical order of angels; below them, Man. Man has his own peculiar hierarchy. Below Man, a descending order of animals, then the same regarding plant-life. This is 'how' the universe and creation 'is'; rightly-ordered, yet never ordered with the sense of 'egalitarianism' that seems to permeate the West. The Egalitarianism stems really from the insurrection of Lucifer; that he would bow or serve no man---no one; when he uttered that famous: 'Non Serviam.' Egalitarian seems to negate and try do away with class, rank, and the hierarchy of Creation --- it is a pie-in-the-sky view and rather utopianistic (i.e. illusory).

Now, we all ought to be kindly and benevolent, obeying Christ and His Holy Roman Catholic Apostolic Christian Church and the morality of the same over common and popular dictates of social society; yet, no matter the rhetoric of one's speech, there will always remain a hierarchy of some sort; even in spite of what many of the utopia-pretenders of Socialism, Communism, Marxism, or Leninism may utter.

I leave with these parting words:

God willing, with the Grace of our Blessed Lord, 'we shall all meet merrily in Heaven'; this above all I desire and 'I wish every man, good'; in these words, I echo St Thomas More, my patron.


The Peace of Christ,
--Virgil the Roman

No man, except for my dear, late father is or ever will be superior to me or inferior for that matter.

All men (and women) are born equally under God...

 

[Enkil]

No man, except for my dear, late father is or ever will be superior to me or inferior for that matter.

All men (and women) are born equally under God...

The idea that your father is superior, but the fathers of the Church cannot and never can be, and that other men may not be superior to you, doesn't make any sense. If you allow that there is one person who is superior, then it follows that there must be some standard by which men can be measured. Either your father is equal to you, or there are people who are either superior or inferior (as you are inferior to your superior father). And, finally, besides confusing authority with being "better", you also state in these words that you have no intention of being obedient to the Church that you claim to be in absolute communion with. I'm sorry, but I'm surprised that you make sense to yourself at all. When I stated that it "depends on who defines it", I was being ironic. The fathers of the Catholic Church define Catholicism, a statement you absolutely deny.

 

[S.ilvio]

The idea that your father is superior, but the fathers of the Church cannot and never can be, and that other men may not be superior to you, doesn't make any sense. If you allow that there is one person who is superior, then it follows that there must be some standard by which men can be measured. Either your father is equal to you, or there are people who are either superior or inferior (as you are inferior to your superior father). And, finally, besides confusing authority with being "better", you also state in these words that you have no intention of being obedient to the Church that you claim to be in absolute communion with. I'm sorry, but I'm surprised that you make sense to yourself at all. When I stated that it "depends on who defines it", I was being ironic. The fathers of the Catholic Church define Catholicism, a statement you absolutely deny.

Until the Vatican shows it has atoned for its sins to the Irish flock we will not pay heed to future teachings. The ball in in their court...

 

[Enkil]

Until the Vatican shows it has atoned for its sins to the Irish flock we will not pay heed to future teachings. The ball in in their court...

Yeah, not buying it. You and the mouse in your pocket can say whatever you both please.

 

[S.ilvio]

Yeah, not buying it. You and the mouse in your pocket can say whatever you both please.

When it gets personal, I leave...

 

[Enkil]

When it gets personal, I leave...

I'm not convinced you were ever here to begin with!

 

[Antigone]

When it gets personal, I leave...

I bow to you, oh wise one.

I, on the other hand, simply annoy.

 

[S.ilvio]

I'm not convinced you were ever here to begin with!

 

[S.ilvio]

I bow to you, oh wise one.

I, on the other hand, simply annoy.

...

 

[WarriorAngel]

I agree with Virgil.
Furthermore; God demands obedience...

Did Christ say to the ppl:
Obey those on the Chair of Moses so long as they are apologetic for what they have done....

NO, He said.."Obey those on the Chair of Moses, do as they say but not as they do..."

Disobedience to the Church IS disobedience to God. Regardless of the miscreants who use the Church or have sinned within the Church - the Church is to be obeyed.

 

[S.ilvio]

I agree with Virgil.
Furthermore; God demands obedience...

Did Christ say to the ppl:
Obey those on the Chair of Moses so long as they are apologetic for what they have done....

NO, He said.."Obey those on the Chair of Moses, do as they say but not as they do..."

Disobedience to the Church IS disobedience to God. Regardless of the miscreants who use the Church or have sinned within the Church - the Church is to be obeyed.

How am I disobeying anyone, bar annoying Right Wing Capitalists, by supporting the working man and those less well off than I am.

In your own time...

 

[WarriorAngel]

How am I disobeying anyone, bar annoying Right Wing Capitalists, by supporting the working man and those less well off than I am.

In your own time...

Real support means we all work and have the opp to succeed.
The welfare system never allows anyone to progress.It retards growth.
Truly indigent are cared for....

Ppl worked to be where they are...as per how 2 Popes said is the way to go.

Socialism steals.

 

[S.ilvio]

Real support means we all work and have the opp to succeed.
The welfare system never allows anyone to progress.It retards growth.
Truly indigent are cared for....

Ppl worked to be where they are...as per how 2 Popes said is the way to go.

Socialism steals.

Welfare isnt about progression but rather allowing folk without work to survive. Survival is kind of important I think. What's your alternative to welfare for the incapacitaed, elderly and those without work?

And please show me the utterance of one Pope that was in anyway against welfare?

You'll never find it by the way.

Maybe you should look up many of the socialist leaning, catholic societies where prests and laity work together to be a voice for the poor and advocate for increased welfare payments for them. One great example is the Society of St Vincent de Paul. The Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Ireland | Charity Home