Why is communism/socialism so popular..

[WarriorAngel]

Welfare isnt about progression but rather allowing folk without work to survive. Survival is kind of important I think. What's your alternative to welfare for the incapacitaed, elderly and those without work?

Temporary assistance.
Its become a career for many or most.

I knew a friend who used the welfare to put her thru school she got a job [nice paying] and quit when her then bf got out of jail and made her quit and she went back on welfare again...stayed on it as long as she was with him too. [a long time]

And please show me the utterance of one Pope that was in anyway against welfare?

Laziness, sloth is a sin.
Furthermore; scriptures tell us we must work for our food...or not eat.
Abled bodies should work.
Truly indigent should be cared for by charity. Government is not a charitable organization.
Nor was it set up that way.

Every single time - every time taxes increase - inflation goes up - employment goes down and markets crash.

No workers - less taxes - less taxes coming in, then they increase them again.

Steal from the rich, and cause unemployment.
After you take all you can from the rich, the middle class suffers too. Every time, the middle class is thrown under the bus.

You'll never find it by the way.

Maybe you should look up many of the socialist leaning, catholic societies where prests and laity work together to be a voice for the poor and advocate for increased welfare payments for them. One great example is the Society of St Vincent de Paul. The Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Ireland | Charity Home

Well, that is on the assumption that these people are unable to work.

Ppl fall on hard times, and generally dont stay down unless the government keeps them down. Sometimes once in the system..ppl stay even if they dont need to.

In Ireland - i dont know their system - to know if ppl get trapped in it or abuse it as a career.

Socialism is catastrophic and a burden to everyone.
It takes freedom from everyone alike.
Poor stay poor, middle class are made near poor. The labors of the worker to feed themselves becomes more and more difficult as taxation increases to feed everyone else too off their work.

The poverty of socialism slowly are showing their fruits.
Everyone hates to work the extra mile to get ahead so its easier to sit back and take.

How charitable is it IF someone is truly able to work but refuse because they are getting a hand out.
If ppl continue to take from the system, it will crash.

BUT hey, all i did predict prior to our last election of Bams has come true. So why would anyone listen to me... few do.

But i can and will say 'i told ya so.' With the Church to back it up.

Only true liberty leads to prosperity. The poorest nations are either under communism or dictatorships. [or rogue governing bullies like Ethiopia who has no ruler, just Islamic bullies who steal the food of the poor and leave them dying]
The wealthiest are those with liberty and a governing body put together by the ppl for the ppl.

An example of how socialism kills incentive, motivation and success or even the attempt to succeed:

An economics teacher was trying to convince his class that capitalism produced incentive and socialism did not. He wanted them to see why capitalism was inherently better for society than Marxism. They didn’t buy it. He devised a practical way to unbrainwash the class of their love for socialism. He waited for the first test. When the teacher passed out the tests to his class, everyone received a “C+” Many students had studied hard and earned “A’s”, while others had blown off the test and failed. The teacher said that he wanted to treat everyone equally –just as they had suggested. He averaged the efforts of the class and gave everyone a “C+”!


Well, guess what? On the next test, the A’s students who had been robbed for their efforts, didn’t study as hard. The F students continued their bad study habits since they were quite happy with the rewards of their lack of effort on the last test. At the end of the second test, everyone’s averaged grade was a “D.” The class started catching on. They saw that treating everyone equally leads to a downward spiral. It robs the hard workers of the fruit of their hard work. It also rewards laziness and apathy as well.

​

Incidently raise the welfare, the hard workers will do with much less for their labors and may begin to see the wisdom of going on welfare, because working is just too hard.
Where is the motivation?

Charity, outside of government should do the efforts to help the poor as it is ordained for our personal judgments.
Government should give incentive, not usurp man of their task from God.
Because collectively being robbed in higher taxes - does not serve personal purpose in doing the Lord's will.

 

[S.ilvio]

Well WA Left wing catholics in Ireland and around the world disagree with you.

To call collecting taxes, stealing is extreme Right Wing rhetoric and is the language of the greedy. those who want to avoid their social responsibility by contributing to society.

Fact is there are no quotes from the Vatican criticising Social welfare. It's an athema to Social Justice Catholicism to take the side of the rich over the side of the poor.

Why do you think charities are required in the first place? its because the greed of the Right hasn't carried out its responsibility to its fellow Man.

You cannot rely on Right Wing greed to put a square meal on every table.

Government must and does, in Europe anyway, ensure a basic standard of living for every citizen. You can try to sully the word socialism all you like. For me and millions of catholics, I have no qualms in proudly being a Catholic Socialist...

Despite its short comings and criminality on the cover up of child abuse, there are very progressive voices in the Irish Catholic Church. CORI is one of these movements. The Council of religous in Ireland openly lobby Govt not to cut Welfare and promote Social justice for the low paid work ers who are exploited by the greed of big business... CORI Latest News

 

[AMDG]

Temporary assistance.
Its become a career for many or most.

I knew a friend who used the welfare to put her thru school she got a job [nice paying] and quit when her then bf got out of jail and made her quit and she went back on welfare again...stayed on it as long as she was with him too. [a long time]
Laziness, sloth is a sin.
Furthermore; scriptures tell us we must work for our food...or not eat.
Abled bodies should work.
Truly indigent should be cared for by charity. Government is not a charitable organization.
Nor was it set up that way.

Every single time - every time taxes increase - inflation goes up - employment goes down and markets crash.

No workers - less taxes - less taxes coming in, then they increase them again.

Steal from the rich, and cause unemployment.
After you take all you can from the rich, the middle class suffers too.

Margaret Thatcher once said that "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

 

[AMDG]

This video cracked me up. ‪Judge Judy - Here's Who You Support With Taxes‬‏ - YouTube

 

[S.ilvio]

Margaret Thatcher once said that "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

Thatcher. If I start on her I'll probably get banned... She was the enemy of the working classes in the UK and did untold damage to the Trade union movement...

 

[Antigone]

Margaret Thatcher once said that "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

Well, she would say that after making sure half the country was unemployed, wouldn't she?

 

[AMDG]

Well, she would say that after making sure half the country was unemployed, wouldn't she?

Does it really matter? Eventually one *does* run out of available money and then there's the "death spiral". That goes like this--raise taxes--lose jobs (because the business owners can no longer afford to employ more people)--less jobs means less collection of taxes to pay for others who aren't working which means that higher taxes will have to be charged to those who continue to work so they can continue to pay for the people who aren't working, but that means less jobs and less money collected in taxes so taxes must be raised again on the one's working to pay for the ones not working and on and on until the whole economy collapses because we *have* "run out of other people's money".

Already in the U.S. half the population pay *no* income tax (as a poor person myself, although a taxpayer, I know some, even in my own family). That means that the top 1% pay about 95%--gotta wonder what their "fair share" is--96%?, 97%, 98%, 100%? Already some businesses have found that there's a better climate for the business if they move overseas, or if they find some way to hide their assets.) Sounds like they've gotten the idea that they too won't have to pay, if they are just wiley enough. Unfortunately, that means that there are less jobs so there are more people not working and less people paying for them not to work. Anyway, socialism seems to be running out of other people's money.

Then we get to get to the fact that initiative and freedom is lost and that is one of the reasons the Catholic Church is against socialism. (Don't believe? Look it up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.)

 

[S.ilvio]

there are so many lies, half truths and downright incorrect statements on thie thread from the Right Wingers here

they deliberately correlate Socialism with totalitarian Sovietism, I was told liberation theologians were excommunicated and that the Vatican was against Social welfare.

Baloney the lot of it.

Fact is the catholic Church in the Third World and in Europe is very definitely Left Wing and makes no aplogy for it.

If the Conservative, American Right Wing has a problem with that, fine. But please use facts, rather than untruths to back up your case.

Thanks in advance.

Sil...

 

[AMDG]

If the Conservative, American Right Wing has a problem with that, fine. But please use facts, rather than untruths to back up your case.

Thanks in advance.

There have been direct quotes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church on this thread. (Sorry you'll have to look them up but it's about Catholic Social doctrine and it decries socialism for the reason that it interferes with initiative and freedom--it's real early in the morning and I haven't the Catechism with me, but I think an online copy is at St. Charles Borromeo site and I think it's 1883--just don't ignore it like usual.) There have been quotes from Margaret Thatcher (she has just been denigerated--made fun of--but that's normal tactics for the left wing Alinsky crowd--read the book, Rules for Radicals, it starts with a "thank you" page to Lucifer, the first radical. That Obama and Hillary Clinton thought highly of Alinsky is a matter of record.) Oh and the judge in that video equated using other people's money for things it wasn't intended "stealing" (I believe she said something about "$70,000 right down the sewer") not "greedy businessmen." Oh, and use common sense, even today's economists (and just about all economists) will tell you that raising taxes in today's economy is a bad idea. It will mean less jobs, less jobs mean that fewer people are paying taxes--sooo taxes will be raised more and more to pay for the folks not working and that will equal even fewer available jobs and less money coming in...it's a vicious circle. (And I believe an illustration of what happens when only some are working to pay for some who don't--even the ones working decide that things are better for them if they stop working too and simply enjoy the rewards that someone else pays for--was included.)

So much for "deliberately correlate Socialism with totalitarian Sovietism".

 

[S.ilvio]

There have been direct quotes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church on this thread. (Sorry you'll have to look them up but it's about Catholic Social doctrine and it decries socialism for the reason that it interferes with initiative and freedom--it's real early in the morning and I haven't the Catechism with me, but I think an online copy is at St. Charles Borromeo site and I think it's 1883--just don't ignore it like usual.) There have been quotes from Margaret Thatcher (she has just been denigerated--made fun of--but that's normal tactics for the left wing Alinsky crowd--read the book, Rules for Radicals, it starts with a "thank you" page to Lucifer, the first radical. That Obama and Hillary Clinton thought highly of Alinsky is a matter of record.) Oh and the judge in that video equated using other people's money for things it wasn't intended "stealing" (I believe she said something about "$70,000 right down the sewer") not "greedy businessmen." Oh, and use common sense, even today's economists (and just about all economists) will tell you that raising taxes in today's economy is a bad idea. It will mean less jobs, less jobs mean that fewer people are paying taxes--sooo taxes will be raised more and more to pay for the folks not working and that will equal even fewer available jobs and less money coming in...it's a vicious circle. (And I believe an illustration of what happens when only some are working to pay for some who don't--even the ones working decide that things are better for them if they stop working too and simply enjoy the rewards that someone else pays for--was included.)

So much for "deliberately correlate Socialism with totalitarian Sovietism".

You're all over the place now I'm afraid.

To conclude the Church openly lobbies many Govts around the world to uphold Social Welfare rates, in CORI's case to raise the tax take from the rich. She Advocates for the milions of people who live below the breadline in supporting a re-distribution of wealth so that equality becomes a part of life where gross inequality was God.

Finally no excommunications for and liberation theologian.

Whats it like, as a 'Greed is Good' Catholic, to be so out of touch with your Church..?

 

[AMDG]

Whats it like, as a 'Greed is Good' Catholic, to be so out of touch with your Church..?

Nice try at the ad hominem attack. However, why don't you just go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read section 1883, then tell me I'm so out of touch with what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[S.ilvio]

Nice try at the ad hominem attack. However, why don't you just go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read section 1883, then tell me I'm so out of touch with what the Catholic Church teaches.

1883 mentions the danger of 'excessive intervention'. I've no problem with that. No common sense person would.

No reference to economic socialism being evil or in contravention with the Church.

On fact I suggest you read Section 1880. Its at the core of Left Wing Catholoicism as practiced around the globe.

So you don't deny any of my points about the reality of the left wing economic policies preached by the Church in the third World and Latin America aswell as Europe as my direct examples show.

Are we all in conflict with God..?

 

[AMDG]

1883 mentions the danger of 'excessive intervention'. I've no problem with that. No common sense person would.

Then you should have no argument with me or the principle of subsidiarity that the Church considers part and parcel of her social program. Or the fact that I agree with the Church that the "excessive intervention" of socialization threatens personal freedom and initiative. (That video concretely shows what happens to initiative when money is just thrown at a problem without addressing the moral issues and so is WA's example of what happens when hard workers are abused to the point where they receive the same grades as those who don't do any work--they just stop trying. In effect, the students have "run out of other people's money"--of course in this case it is grades.)

BTW did you read section 1885? 1886? 1887? 1893? 1894? 1895? Heck the whole "In Brief"?

 

[S.ilvio]

Oh please. using Judge Judy as a cornerstone of an arguement is pure silly, with respect. Now how about that Section 1880..?

Come on. face it. Your poor attempt to spin the Church as a Right Wing organisation has failed...

 

[AMDG]

Come on. face it. Your poor attempt to spin the Church as a Right Wing organisation has failed...

The Church is not Right Wing *or* Left Wing. It does not celebrate fallen man. It is for God. It's teaching is not for excessive intervention. It's social teaching is for charity and it's social doctrine's cornerstone is the Principle of Subsidiarity.

Perhaps *you* need to face it. Your attempt at painting the Church as a Left Wing organization that embraces big government at the expense of God (and his children) is massively mistaken.

 

[S.ilvio]

Missed 1880 again?

Oh well. You continue on your path and I'll, mine...