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Why is communism/socialism so popular..

S.ilvio

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So basically, like a Protestant or a Post-Modernist, you'll just ignore the Papacy and have it your own way. And to heck what the Holy Ghost says and speaks through Christ's Holy Roman Catholic Church! :doh: Franco, Dollfuss, and Salazar all establish Catholic Confessional States, "Coporatist States" based upon Catholic Social Teachings; entailing a co-operation between Labour and Businesses in harmony; not being pitted against one another as Socialists and Communists would have us do; or enslaved by godless Big Businesses as uncheck "Usurious Capitalism" would. A solidly Catholic "middle-ground;" both fair and viable.

No disrespect but I'll let Jesus and the Lord God be my judge. I see no contradiction in my work as a Trade union official who espouses justice for the poor and down trodden and a fairer distribution of resources with being a happily practicing Irish Catholic.

Though tragically we, in Ireland find it increasingly hard to heed the Vatican after their scandalous attempts to cover up and obstruct investigations into child abuse. However, despite the Vatican I will continue my membership of the Church as I know good men like Archbisop Martin in Dublin is fighting the good fight despite dark forces from within...
 
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Virgil the Roman

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. . . The Vatican has alot of its own dirty laundry to sort out before it deigns to criticise people who are proudly left wing and espouse Christ's dedication to injustice . . .

You cannot disobey the Church or advocate ignoring God's Church, because of the sins of her members; what she proclaims is the Truth of God, even if her individual members sin, when speaking upon matters touching the Faith, Doctrine, or what is morally just: She is infallible (even if her individual members are wretched sinners and therefore very far from impeccability).
 
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Virgil the Roman

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I have not denounced unions. I come from a strongly pro-union family. However, that does not mean that unions are not beholden or worthy of criticism.

I despise unions controlled by Socialists or Liberals; or those infiltrated by the Mafia. All these are enemies of the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic faithful. It is the spread of anti-Roman Catholic ideas by Communists, Socialists, and Free-Masons that is to the detriment of the Poor and Destitute. Particularly as they play off of the rightfully-perceived injustices of Usurious Capitalism; however, they arrive by and utilise the incorrect, or oftentimes: an even worse "solution."

One cannot decry and replace one bad situation with altogether even more oppressive one.

:sigh:
 
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.:)

The Vatican has alot of its own dirty laundry to sort out before it deigns to criticise people who are proudlt left wing and espouse Christ's dedication to injustice...

You have just answered my OP! Cheers! ...

I get it! Left wingers think Christ was the first socialist! He was a revolutionary political activist (much like che guevara) who hated pharisaic capitalism. LOL

Silvio socialism must first explain why it has killed 150million poor people in the first 100 years of its existence in socialist regimes in the last century. Most people starved to death.

Then the Vatican will answer why it deals with money (we never do right?).

I don't understand why socialists say that their ideology is for the poor when it has crippled jobs and hence workers economically more than capitalism ever has and has killed 150million people in 100 years of socialist regimes. All of them (the people killed) broke poor.

Is it an illusion or a delusion???

Doesn't matter historical facts won't change irrational and emotional/sentimental beliefs.
 
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S.ilvio

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You have just answered my OP! Cheers! ...

I get it! Left wingers think Christ was the first socialist! He was a revolutionary political activist (much like che guevara) who hated pharisaic capitalism. LOL

Silvio socialism must first explain why it has killed 150million poor people in the first 100 years of its existence in socialist regimes in the last century. Most people starved to death.

Then the Vatican will answer why it deals with money (we never do right?).

I don't understand why socialists say that their ideology is for the poor when it has crippled jobs and hence workers economically more than capitalism ever has and has killed 150million people in 100 years of socialist regimes. All of them (the people killed) broke poor.

Is it an illusion or a delusion???

Doesn't matter historical facts won't change irrational and emotional/sentimental beliefs.
Not I nor one Socialist I know has killed anyone. If you're going to lazily pitch me in with Stalin and Pol Pot go right ahead but I'll just laugh it off as futile desperation...:)

I see no incongruance with being Left Wing and Cathloic...:)
 
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S.ilvio

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I have not denounced unions. I come from a strongly pro-union family. However, that does not mean that unions are not beholden or worthy of criticism.

I despise unions controlled by Socialists or Liberals; or those infiltrated by the Mafia. All these are enemies of the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic faithful. It is the spread of anti-Roman Catholic ideas by Communists, Socialists, and Free-Masons that is to the detriment of the Poor and Destitute. Particularly as they play off of the rightfully-perceived injustices of Usurious Capitalism; however, they arrive by and utilise the incorrect, or oftentimes: an even worse "solution."

One cannot decry and replace one bad situation with altogether even more oppressive one.

:sigh:

Well I'm the member of a union that has at its core righting the wrongs inflicted on the poor that unbridled Capitalism has wrought.

I'd daresay Jesus himself would be doing the self same thing despite what the odd Pharisie in the Vatican may say...
 
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Ok. then why do you care about pedophilia in the church? You aren't a pedophile nor your catholic friends are. but you have a problem with it just the same. I'm not a pedophile but aren't happy that some catholic priests are. 'm a catholic.

No " futile desperation" on my part. Just the power of self-criticism. Few have. I used to believe all the propaganda and media about the left being humanitarian etc. I then looked up the facts and surrendered. It was easier for me because I wasn't a socialist but a non-political citizen.

Every socialist tells me he's not pol pot or mao or lenin or stalin (at least he knows of the crimes perpetuated by them. I never compare them to one of them but he feels as though he's put in the cauldron.) but fails to understand that those people were carrying out the ideology. The same ideology which makes them socialist in the first place. I never criticised you personally. But the ideology. If you think you're the socialist ideology well that's just part of the collective ideology in the first place. The individual doesn't exist anymore but is part of a system. The socialist system. Hence what the system thinks he thinks too. Hence if the system kills x million people he inconsciously thinks he has physically.

If someone came up to me and stated a fact I would tell him that he's true. And that pedophilia isn't what Christ preaches. Those sick bastards did exactly the opposite of the "ideology". But that cannot be said for lenin, stalin, pol pot and mao. They weren't the black sheep who didn't carry out the socialist ideology but were the opposite. They were people who acted out the ideology in a position of leadership. Hence the ideology at its maximus power and expression. The exact opposite of what pedophile priests are.

In the first situation: people act out the ideology and commit terrible crimes doing so; in the second people do the opposite of what the "ideology" teaches and they commit terrible crimes.


As I said no man can change someone's irrational emotional/sentimental lifetime beliefs.

I guess I was right when I said most people who are socialist think:

socialism. Sounds similar to social justice.
communism. Sounds similar to communion.

Hey but that's the Church!...
 
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Well I'm the member of a union that has at its core righting the wrongs inflicted on the poor that unbridled Capitalism has wrought.

I'd daresay Jesus himself would be doing the self same thing despite what the odd Pharisie in the Vatican may say...

Wrong. He would not espouse the socialist/communist anti-christian and atheist ideology but do good without being in a marxist environment.

I can't see Christ going against Himself. That is just irrational. Sorry.

You adjust Christ to your own personal beliefs and not the other way round
 
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S.ilvio

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Ok. then why do you care about pedophilia in the church? You aren't a pedophile nor your catholic friends are. but you have a problem with it just the same. I'm not a pedophile but aren't happy that some catholic priests are. 'm a catholic.

No " futile desperation" on my part. Just the power of self-criticism. Few have. I used to believe all the propaganda and media about the left being humanitarian etc. I then looked up the facts and surrendered. It was easier for me because I wasn't a socialist but a non-political citizen.

Every socialist tells me he's not pol pot or mao or lenin or stalin (at least he knows of the crimes perpetuated by them. I never compare them to one of them but he feels as though he's put in the cauldron.) but fails to understand that those people were carrying out the ideology. The same ideology which makes them socialist in the first place. I never criticised you personally. But the ideology. If you think you're the socialist ideology well that's just part of the collective ideology in the first place. The individual doesn't exist anymore but is part of a system. The socialist system. Hence what the system thinks he thinks too. Hence if the system kills x million people he inconsciously thinks he has physically.

If someone came up to me and stated a fact I would tell him that he's true. And that pedophilia isn't what Christ preaches. Those sick bastards did exactly the opposite of the "ideology". But that cannot be said for lenin, stalin, pol pot and mao. They weren't the black sheep who didn't carry out the socialist ideology but were the opposite. They were people who acted out the ideology in a position of leadership. Hence the ideology at its maximus power and expression. The exact opposite of what pedophile priests are.

In the first situation: people act out the ideology and commit terrible crimes doing so; in the second people do the opposite of what the "ideology" teaches and they commit terrible crimes.


As I said no man can change someone's irrational emotional/sentimental lifetime beliefs.

I guess I was right when I said most people who are socialist think:

socialism. Sounds similar to social justice.
communism. Sounds similar to communion.

Hey but that's the Church!...

Paedophilia is an evil against children. how this links with my Socilaist beliefs is beyond me.

You can call me irrational until the cows come home. God knows I'm far from perfect but I do my best as a Catholic socialist to do right by those less fortunate than I and make no apology for it...
 
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S.ilvio

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Wrong. He would not espouse the socialist/communist anti-christian and atheist ideology but do good without being in a marxist environment.

I can't see Christ going against Himself. That is just irrational. Sorry.

You adjust Christ to your own personal beliefs and not the other way round


In your opinion I'm wrong. With respect I'll truck on doing my best to live out Christ's teaching about devotion to the poor in my Left wing way and let God be my judge like millions of fellow Catholics around the world...:)
 
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Paedophilia is an evil against children. how this links with my Socilaist beliefs is beyond me.

You can call me irrational until the cows come home. God knows I'm far from perfect but I do my best as a Catholic socialist to do right by those less fortunate than I and make no apology for it...

I'm not.

You said "mao et al were murderers and criminals I'm not but am socialist"

Same logic entails: "priests are pedophiles I'm not a pedophile even if catholic"

Right but the thing is very different:

in the first case mao et al were carrying out the ideology and at its maximum strength and "splendor" in the second the pedophiles are doing exactly the opposite of what the "ideology" they commit themselves to says...

hence one is carrying out the ideology and carrying it out makes him commit those crimes in the first place. In the second one is going against the ideology and commits the crimes.

Therefore one logically concludes that in the first example the ideology makes one commit crimes. In the second not adhering to it makes one commit a crime.

This in general then there are the exceptions. One exception from the first case would be someone committing to the ideology and not committing a crime. In the second the pedophile priest IS the exception to the "ideology" he adheres to.

Hence logical conclusion: the first ideology is wrong the second is good.
 
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In your opinion I'm wrong. With respect I'll truck on doing my best to live out Christ's teaching about devotion to the poor in my Left wing way and let God be my judge like millions of fellow Catholics around the world...:)

This is what I said before:

"Wrong. He would not espouse the socialist/communist anti-christian and atheist ideology but do good without being in a marxist environment.

I can't see Christ going against Himself. That is just irrational. Sorry.

You adjust Christ to your own personal beliefs and not the other way round"

Marx was truly a genius. He used the socio-economic church teachings and the cultural milieau of catholicism to his advantage by inventing an ideology which is The anti-christian ideology and notwithstanding is embraced by many catholics who fell for it. Satan posing as Jesus. Marx truly was a diabolical genius.

Not even gesuits are so great in making the opposites coincide. the most anti-christian, atheist ideology out there is not just accepted but revered even by catholics(!!!) because of rhetoric and demagogy about helping the poor and seen as good when in fact it has been the worse calamity the world has ever known.

This is fascinating. LOL
I've never seen anyone twist the teachings of the church and Christ in such a way and convert so many. Not even luther was so successful.

As I said the sooner the Pope will bless capitalism the sooner the whole thing will end. Since priests lack rabbinic savoir faire and ingenuity they never will be able to sort things out. No priest could ever come up with an ideology which is anti-jewish and fool the jews into revering it and converting to it!! But the grandson of a rabbi did. LOL and ROFL.
 
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S.ilvio

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I'm not.

You said "mao et al were murderers and criminals I'm not but am socialist"

Same logic entails: "priests are pedophiles I'm not a pedophile even if catholic"

Right but the thing is very different:

in the first case mao et al were carrying out the ideology and at its maximum strength and "splendor" in the second the pedophiles are doing exactly the opposite of what the "ideology" they commit themselves to says...

hence one is carrying out the ideology and carrying it out makes him commit those crimes in the first place. In the second one is going against the ideology and commits the crimes.

Therefore one logically concludes that in the first example the ideology makes one commit crimes. In the second not adhering to it makes one commit a crime.

This in general then there are the exceptions. One exception from the first case would be someone committing to the ideology and not committing a crime. In the second the pedophile priest IS the exception to the "ideology" he adheres to.

Hence logical conclusion: the first ideology is wrong the second is good.


I live my life with both Catholic and Socialist ideologies side by side. There's many a catholic country have Socialist politicians and governing parties. No one dies because of either idology.
 
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Enkil

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Nietzscheiswrong: In Latin America this is history, Che Guevara a jewish (his mother was jewish) ,marxist atheist coupled with another jewish marxist atheist Fidel Castro "liberated" cuba from imperialism and corruption in such a great manner that the Cubans were better off before than they are now in 2011.

Communist heaven on earth - paradise for proletarians is the greatest scam and myth ever devised in socio-economic and political spheres.

Economically it is a complete disaster. Socially it is rhetoric and sentimentalism used to hook up gullible poor people who think of it as a savior when what it really does is to concentrate the property in the hands of the state-the few elite in a much more barbaric and despotic way than capitalism. At least in capitalism one can own private property.

Not just that it prospers in extremely poor, uneducated and rural societies. People who fall for the hoax either believe in the myth that politicians and those in power are good and care for the poor and the people on a whole or they want everyone else who isn't as poor as them to be as poor as them. Because communism is leveling conditions down and not leveling them up.

It is for greater equality. The non elites must be all poor in the same way.

When we look at our fridges, pcs, hd tvs, dvd players, iphones, ipods etc lets remember that its thanks to capitalism that we got them!! If we were under a communist regime we wouldn't have them. No one would have invented them.

The church should stop having an atavic fear of money based on franciscan "theology" - the devil's dirt. And other such nonsense. Without it the church would not exist either. The church has always been where the money was and the power was until the French Revolution objectively.

It should bless capitalism and demonize communism once and for all. Capitalism is the only opposition to communism. There aint another on the planet. Its either one or the other. Where there is communism the church disappears. Look at USSR and China. Or Cuba.Or North Korea. Or speak to any marxist left wing atheist...

It was Marx who once described the Jewish God as "money", and the Jewish people as "hucksters". The hatred for the Jew is not limited to the Hitler types, but is a tradition long passed down by the fathers of revolution. There you can see the irony of your post.

It was not capitalism that did what you have described, though I myself prefer it. It was God who made it possible. It is righteousness that a man must first seek, and then from there all things proceed naturally (happiness, fruitfulness, money, success, honor). The righteous man does not seek after money or worldly possessions as his priority, he first seeks to improve his own soul. And when the man experiences hardship, he is unhurt because he trusts in the Spiritual over the Material. He knows where real worth is, so he passes peacefully from hardship to fruitfulness and back to hardship again. He lives his life according to a higher law, understanding that the present world is nothing. The system that has succeeded so well in the United States flowed naturally from righteous men and women, their laws and their justice. That is not to say that the United States is perfect, as no creation of man is perfect; however, the United States has a free system only because it has a Christian culture that values the individual, his rights, his property, his dreams and successes (both temporal and eternal). It was from the virtue of so many that success and freedom flowed.

In the present age, belief in God has fallen and, with it, a belief in absolute truths. Business practices are selfish, shortsighted and foolish; politicians are corrupt, they do not lead, they do not love their country, and they are also shortsighted; teachers do not teach, or they teach people to be stupid. It's like in King Lear, where Kings do not rule, Fools are wise, and honest men are beggars. Everything increases in disorder until collapse. Since no one believes in anything, everything loses its value in their sight.

The Socialist's problem, and your problem as well, is in this state of mind that thinks that the solution is in material things first. Laws to govern men are useless if men do not respect the laws. What's the point of a law when the individual is the only law people recognize? (A good example is Chavez, who respects no law except himself!) You are thinking in "systems", in -isms and mechanical forces. You think that capitalism did this and that, but capitalism has no mind or force of its own. While capitalism is the natural system, it is no good without righteous men. Godless men produce godless things, using their power to gain more power. This is easy to see in the communist, as all the most horrid communist leaders have also been the most criminal and vain. While claiming to be "for the people", the communist creates a system where the individual or a few individuals wield absolute power. However, we cannot think that a man is better by simply being a capitalist! A man is a man, and always gives in to his evil desires when the opportunity arises. The root of the problem is in the rottenness of man, and not in the house he builds around himself. Cure the man of his sickness, and then he will have the strength to get to the work of building a home and feeding his family as God intended.
 
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S.ilvio

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I guess you can be anything if you simply declare yourself to be something. Dogs are cats, monkeys are men, and dragons are sweet doves. I'm George Clooney, and you are Steven Spielberg. Let's make a movie.

I find your tone quite disrespectful. I hold my beliefs in Christ sacred and see my Left wing idoelogy to be in communion with the Catholic church (we are all the church, not just the Princes in the Vatican) as we prioritise the poor and seek justice for all...
 
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Enkil

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I find your tone quite disrespectful. I hold my beliefs in Christ sacred and see my Left wing idoelogy to be in communion with the Catholic church (we are all the church, not just the Princes in the Vatican) as we prioritise the poor and seek justice for all...

When faced with direct quotes from "The Vatican", you replied:

"The Vatican can write what it likes about ideal worlds etc. The reality is there are huge injustices in this world where the poor are the most velnerable. Those people will continue to be at the heart of catholics and Socialists alike...

The Vatican has alot of its own dirty laundry to sort out before it deigns to criticise people who are proudly left wing and espouse Christ's dedication to injustice..."

It is those Princes in the Vatican who, according to Catholic doctrine, are the bishops of the Church, heirs to the Apostles themselves. The Pope, according to Catholic doctrine, possesses the seat of Peter and special divine authority. It is one thing to disagree with them on some issues, but another thing to openly revile them. This is not the spirit of "my socialist and catholic beliefs are in communion". It is more like, "I am Catholic to the point where my socialist beliefs make it acceptable". Is this a true Catholic? I suppose it's up to who defines it.
 
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S.ilvio

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I suppose it's up to who defines it.

I agree. the Vatican is the seat of Catholicism and tragically some of those who are the heirs to the apostles have let the Church (us) down very badly and must in my view openly atone for their sins against the most vulnerable (children) through acts of commission and ommission in order to regain the trust of the people and God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...

Archbishop Martin of Dublin has been a prince among knaves in the Irish community of Bishops and for his reward the Vatican places a gagging order on him last year. It's arrogance such as this that must be scorned and reviled as it injures Christ as much, if not more, than it does us...
 
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Virgil the Roman

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Their sins do not negate their authority. Recall Christ called the faithful to obedience to the Pharisees' teachings while he was still alive saying, "Do as they preach, not as they do." Likewise, we owe God and the Body of Christ (the Holy Roman Catholic Church), the submission and assent that all Roman Catholics are mandated to give. God asks and requires this of us. We cannot exempt ourselves. To do so, even because of other's sins, is the height of pride and arrogance. We must be obedient to Christ and to His Holy Catholic Church; obedient as children are to their Father. For Christ said that we must be child-like, having faith in the same manner as the youth do; we must trust in the teachings of Christ and His holy Church: not making our private opinion or our own mind's the supreme authority as many Modernists, Post-Modernists, and Protestants do.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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We must conform our social and political values to be in line with Christ and those of His Holy Roman Catholic Church. Formerly, I used to be a liberal; however, with trust in God and in His grace, I humbled myself; obeying and trusting that the Holy Ghost has guided and lead His Church rightly and justly. So far, the Catholic Economic teachings regarding subsidiarity, Rerum Novarum, Distributism/Benign Capitalism/Corporatism----are far more sensible and fair than the economic systems of: Usurious Capitalism, Socialism, or Communism.

I used to be a liberal; especially as Liberalism, as well as Neo-conservatism (and Socialism, Modernism, Communism, Anarchism, Nazism, Totalitarianism, and Tyranny) are contrary to the tenets of Christ and His Body, the holy Roman Catholic Church.
 
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