Why is Christianity so negative?

[JudgeEden]

Unfortunately I agree with this notion (although I haven't had as much interaction outside this country). I believe the development of the fundamentalist movement over the last 100 years is largely the reason that Christianity is so frustrating in this country. Christians seem more concerned with attacking evolution, gays, and liberals, and exalting the Bible to idol status, than behaving like Christ. This is far less common outside the US since no other predominantly Christian nations have fundamentalism to our degree.

What exactly do you mean by "idol status"?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What exactly do you mean by "idol status"?

Idols.........

Exodus 20:4 Not thou shall make unto thyself an idol/eidwlon #1497, any representation which in heavens from above, and which in land from beneath, and which in waters from beneath to land.
[Daniel 2:35/Reve 9:20]

Reve 9:20 and the rests of the men who not were killed in the blows these not repent out of the works of the hands of them,
that no they should be worshipping the demons and the idols/eidwla <1497> of the gold and the silver and the brass and the stone and the wood,
which neither to be seeing are able, nor to be hearing nor to be walking,

 

[JudgeEden]

I want his definition of idol.

I have heard people use "idol" in quite a few different ways.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I want his definition of idol.

I have heard people use "idol" in quite a few different ways.

Ahhh, ok.
He did mention something about the Bible being exalted to idol status. Interesting

Originally Posted by Jase Unfortunately I agree with this notion (although I haven't had as much interaction outside this country). I believe the development of the fundamentalist movement over the last 100 years is largely the reason that Christianity is so frustrating in this country. Christians seem more concerned with attacking evolution, gays, and liberals, and exalting the Bible to idol status, than behaving like Christ.
This is far less common outside the US since no other predominantly Christian nations have fundamentalism to our degree.

 

[danipa68]

Exalting the bible as an idol to me would mean that people hide behind the law of the land or in this case the law of the bible, instead of loving one another as Christ did.

 

[MKJ]

What exactly do you mean by "idol status"?

Bibliolatry

 

[Gnarwhal]

Bibliolatry

Yeah this guy knows what I'm talking about.

 

[Rick Otto]

The problem is, however, when these Churchians or whatever you want to call them are standing up and proclaiming to represent the face of Christianity to the world, and everyone else. How else can we respond to their claims?

It's not as easy as just saying "They're not "true" Christians."

Only because it's against the rules here, but realy it requires no more response than the ads for guaranteed 6pack abs.
You've moved from worrying about the devil lying to you to worrying about how to respond to preachers lying to you. I just stay away from 'em. I don't sense the annointing to take 'em down.
I just do what I can where I can, like right here.
Maybe you should give yourself a couple of years for intensive study like Paul did.

 

[Rick Otto]

have doubts simply because none of these negative aspects of this religion appeal to me. I'm not like that, so I don't think it's right for me. I feel that it simply pulls me down and doesn't resonate with who I am.

Perhaps you need to temper your expectations. The tares have been sown alongside the wheat so to speak, so finding any group without internal tensions will be difficult.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by JudgeEden What exactly do you mean by "idol status"?

Bibliolatry

I doubt it would be very tasty to most ehehe

snip from site: Bibliolatry (from the Greek biblion "book" + latreia "worship") is the worship of a particular book. See also Idolatry and Idolatry and Christianity.


Reve 10:9 And I went toward the Messenger saying to Him to give to me the little-scroll/biblaridion <974>.
And He is saying to me "be getting! and be devouring it! and it shall be making bitter of thee the bowel, but in the mouth of thee it shall be sweet as honey".
11 and he saith to me, "It behoveth thee again to prophesy about peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings--many."
[Ezekiel 3:1-3]

 

[New_Wineskin]

Unfortunately I agree with this notion (although I haven't had as much interaction outside this country). I believe the development of the fundamentalist movement over the last 100 years is largely the reason that Christianity is so frustrating in this country. Christians seem more concerned with attacking evolution, gays, and liberals, and exalting the Bible to idol status, than behaving like Christ. This is far less common outside the US since no other predominantly Christian nations have fundamentalism to our degree.

If you go before that 100 year mark , you will see these "christian nations" having slavery and allow discrimination , not allowing women to own land or vote , torturing or burning people as heretics ( or witches ) , and allowing the beating of spouses ( I still think that christian "churches" allow it as they are silent on the issue ) ... to name a few items .

 

[JudgeEden]

Bibliolatry

Okay, I thought that's what you meant by it.

I'm sure you would put me under this label since I do believe the Bible is inerrant and without it, we wouldn't know what to believe regarding many subjects. How are we supposed to read the Bible exactly if one doesn't believe all of it is true?

I would never call this "Bible Worship" because it's totally silly. I know of the potential spirits have to deceive, and if we are willing to be even a bit flexible regarding what to believe then they can easily fool you.

How would you defend against spiritual deception? What about false doctrines? And where does one come up with the idea that we are to try and understand God and have a relationship with Him without the inerrancy of the scriptures?

It's a very slippery slope.

 

[cubinity]

Okay, I thought that's what you meant by it.

I'm sure you would put me under this label since I do believe the Bible is inerrant and without it, we wouldn't know what to believe regarding many subjects. How are we supposed to read the Bible exactly if one doesn't believe all of it is true?

I would never call this "Bible Worship" because it's totally silly. I know of the potential spirits have to deceive, and if we are willing to be even a bit flexible regarding what to believe then they can easily fool you.

How would you defend against spiritual deception? What about false doctrines? And where does one come up with the idea that we are to try and understand God and have a relationship with Him without the inerrancy of the scriptures?

It's a very slippery slope.

Well, if I might chime in, we aren't playing Chutes and Ladders, so who cares about slippery slopes? All ideas can be dangerous when blown to the extreme, so slippery slope arguments are usually absurd anyway, IMO.

As far as being indebted to the text to tell us things we wouldn't know without it, I feel that way about every history I read. I don't have to believe something is flawless in order to trust it and be thankful for the insight it has provided me.

IMO, making inerrancy a prerequisite to believing the Bible would show my lack of faith in its content. For example, many have argued that there is no reason to believe that Jesus came back from the dead unless the Bible is inerrant (Not assuming you believe this). I think that is a position I cannot agree with. I do believe Jesus came back from the dead, largely because I trust the text, but not because I believe the text is flawless. In fact, the text may be wrong, Jesus may not have come back from the dead, and if that is the case, then you and I are to be pitied for our faith, which is a possibility that can only be considered if one is capable of acknowledging the remote possibility of a flaw in the content.

Anyway, yes it is a slippery slope, and one I proudly support. Inerrancy is an unnecessary doctrine, IMO.

I am interested in hearing more of your thoughts on the matter, though. Feel free to ask me anything if you are interested.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Okay, I thought that's what you meant by it.

I'm sure you would put me under this label since I do believe the Bible is inerrant and without it, we wouldn't know what to believe regarding many subjects. How are we supposed to read the Bible exactly if one doesn't believe all of it is true?

I would never call this "Bible Worship" because it's totally silly. I know of the potential spirits have to deceive, and if we are willing to be even a bit flexible regarding what to believe then they can easily fool you.

How would you defend against spiritual deception? What about false doctrines? And where does one come up with the idea that we are to try and understand God and have a relationship with Him without the inerrancy of the scriptures?

It's a very slippery slope.

The point isn't necessarily whether or not the bible is infallible, the point is that there are some who elevate the bible to such an extent that it surpasses God himself in their hearts and minds.

It's like celebrating the home run and not the person who hit it.

I think that Wikipedia article stated at some point that the Bible is viewed as a signpost, a tool that points us to God but the bible itself isn't God.

I've encountered many-a-Christian who were very pompous about their devotion to the King James Bible or some such nonsense, yet they weren't really living the way of Jesus, and I thought to myself what one of my favorite teachers has said,

"...The bible isn't the point. The point is knowing Jesus Christ and the power of his resurrection. What happens, my wife refers to it as 'bibliolatry', is the bible becomes like a new golden calf where people bow down to the wrong things. We do not worship the bible we worship God... ...and that is something that we will take on. We will confront those that hold the bible up higher than what the bible holds up, which is God, Jesus and the power of the resurrection. It's possible to know lots of bible verses, to know lots of passages, to know lots of Greek and Hebrew words, and not be transformed by the love of Christ."

As far as being indebted to the text to tell us things we wouldn't know without it, I feel that way about every history I read. I don't have to believe something is flawless in order to trust it and be thankful for the insight it has provided me.

Quite true, as am I.

 

[MKJ]

Okay, I thought that's what you meant by it.

I'm sure you would put me under this label since I do believe the Bible is inerrant and without it, we wouldn't know what to believe regarding many subjects. How are we supposed to read the Bible exactly if one doesn't believe all of it is true?

I would never call this "Bible Worship" because it's totally silly. I know of the potential spirits have to deceive, and if we are willing to be even a bit flexible regarding what to believe then they can easily fool you.

How would you defend against spiritual deception? What about false doctrines? And where does one come up with the idea that we are to try and understand God and have a relationship with Him without the inerrancy of the scriptures?

It's a very slippery slope.

I also think the Bible is inerrant, though I am not a literalist. But I think making an idol out of Scripture is another thing altogether.

There are increasing numbers of people who consider the Word to be identical with the Bible. And the idea that all Grace comes through it is very common it seems as well. Or who think that one simply reads Scripture and then prays for the Holy Spirit to give them the infallible interpretation, or who believe that one can escape from the use or reason or an interpretative lens, or that the Bible is not limited by being in human language for human beings and actually literally describes what God is.

Those things could all be forms of idol worship - some of them, I think, certainly are.

 

[JudgeEden]

The point isn't necessarily whether or not the bible is infallible, the point is that there are some who elevate the bible to such an extent that it surpasses God himself in their hearts and minds.

It's like celebrating the home run and not the person who hit it.

I think that Wikipedia article stated at some point that the Bible is viewed as a signpost, a tool that points us to God but the bible itself isn't God.

I've encountered many-a-Christian who were very pompous about their devotion to the King James Bible or some such nonsense, yet they weren't really living the way of Jesus, and I thought to myself what one of my favorite teachers has said,



Quite true, as am I.

Okay, now I understand. From how you explained it, it doesn't seem so bad. I can respect this stance.

 

[Kaitlin08]

The problem is, however, when these Churchians or whatever you want to call them are standing up and proclaiming to represent the face of Christianity to the world, and everyone else. How else can we respond to their claims?

It's not as easy as just saying "They're not "true" Christians."

I think it is that easy. We point out that the Bible warns of false sheep and sheep who don't think about their commitment to God. Christian theology accepts all people, and doesn't judge according to education, intelligence, status, money, ability, manliness, majority status or anything else that the world thinks is necessary for a person to have worth; if Christians don't see this, then there's something terribly wrong with them, something hasn't clicked.

Perhaps you don't know how the world sees people; you did say that you grew up as a Christian. Observe carefully what the world says about people. Even a little exposure to it is enough to see the yawning gulf of difference between Christianity and the world.

Most people don't live in a way that's consistent with their beliefs. This is a good thing, or else the majority of people would be much worse than they are now. On the other hand, it obscures how the Christian theology is fundamentally open minded.

 

[SullivanZ]

I find that Christians are often LESS moral than those of the world.

Now, I don't think it ought to be that way, but nevertheless, it is so.

It is sad when you have atheists who have more morality than Christians.

 

[Kaitlin08]

I find that Christians are often LESS moral than those of the world.

Now, I don't think it ought to be that way, but nevertheless, it is so.

It is sad when you have atheists who have more morality than Christians.

Is this a response to my post?

 

[SullivanZ]

Is this a response to my post?

It is a general statement for everyone.