Why is Christ not dead / in Hell

[EmSw]

You have rebelliously disobeyed the Creator of the universe. You have offended God. What possible even partial payment could be made for such an offence?

Repentance and remission of sins.

 

[Kaon]

The OP question is flawed and judging from the fist page of answers that I just read has managed to confuse a lot of people.

It is very much like that riddle where something is bought after borrowing money. The changed is shared out but it doesn't add up to the original amount of cash.

There are separate issues getting confused. I am sorry if I do not have the correct words.

Because it begs too many questions without proper answers available, or entertained.


That a mass of men chose which texts were important for other men and their spiritual trajectory should be extremely troubling especially in the context of the Truth. That is a conversation that is still debated among theologians, but quite clear the problem when you connect the dots.


The question may be flawed, but if it is coming from a good place it is decent.

 

[bling]

i dont know what you mean, what are you talking about

Are you talking to me?

 

[EmSw]

Are you talking to me?

Yes. What payment is needed when sin is remitted?

 

[bling]

Repentance and remission of sins.

That does not "pay" for anything, the debt your sins have created is beyond "payment", but can be forgiven.

 

[bling]

Yes. What payment is needed when sin is remitted?

Sins can only be forgiven, atonement is not a payment system.

 

[Colter]

Okay, this is one that vexes me.

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the full price of sin, why then is Jesus not either:

1) eternally dead

2) waiting to go into the lake of fire for all eternity

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (as I said, depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the FULL price of sin, he should then be in one of those two conditions.



The only reason I can think that he would not be in one of those conditions is if:

a) he did not pay the full price of sin but was let off part of the bill (cue track playing opening chords of O Fortuna)

b) The Father chooses to end the sentence of sin prematurely (which opens the gates to a potential universalism as regards salvation - ie: all end up being saved in the end)

It CANNOT be that Jesus gets a reduced sentence on account of being sinless, as that would mean he does not pay the FULL price of sin.

Thoughts?

Jesus never said his death was an atoning sacrifice or some sort of payment. That speculation came later in the new Gospel about Jesus.


Jesus showed that faith is he only requirement for salvation.

 

[Clint Edwards]

So, which of the two deaths did Jesus pay the price for mankind?

Both. The first or there would be no resurrection, the second, or there would be no eternal life.

 

[Clint Edwards]

Sins can only be forgiven, atonement is not a payment system.

What is a ransom sacrifice ?

 

[Clint Edwards]

I prefaced everything by stating this was not in the canon.

Opinion then, nothing more.

 

[EmSw]

That does not "pay" for anything, the debt your sins have created is beyond "payment", but can be forgiven.

Look up the definition of 'remit'.

 

[EmSw]

Sins can only be forgiven, atonement is not a payment system.

How is sin forgiven?

 

[Der Alte]

As I said, this is non-canonical.

Uh huh! Do you suppose that God, who gave us the scriptures in the first place, was not capable of ensuring that the books He wanted in the Bible got in the canon? And that despite God's best efforts some books that He wanted in the canon got left out? I wonder what other mistakes and failures God had?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Where do you find in the OT where they 'wounded' the offering before being sacrificed?

I'm not sure why that's important.

 

[marineimaging]

Where do you find Jesus took all the sins of mankind to hell?

It is in the Bible. Look it up.

 

[bling]

What is a ransom sacrifice ?

The ransom (Jesus cruel torture, humiliation, and murder) is the ransom payment. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the writer of Hebrew all describe the atonement sacrifice as a literal ransom payment and not "like" a ransom payment.
Satan does not deserve to be paid anything by God and would not change from being paid. Since God could just as easily and safely take anything satan has it would be wrong for God to pay satan.
God is not a criminal (kidnapper) and personally would have preferred Christ's blood to remain flowing through His veins. God is not hold the children from entering the Kingdom.
The most likely alternative is the criminal sinner himself who is holding back the child within himself (we can only enter the Kingdom as children). We appeal to the nonbelieving sinner to accept Christ and Him crucified (the ransom payment), to refuse such a huge sacrificial payment being made by God and Christ means hell for that person.
The value to the sinner who believes in Christ and him crucified is the opportunity to be crucified with Christ (this is fair/just discipline which provides all the benefits which come from being disciplined).

 

[EmSw]

I'm not sure why that's important.

What was Jesus wounded for?

 

[EmSw]

It is in the Bible. Look it up.

I give up. Where does it say Jesus took all of our sins to hell?

 

[Kaon]

Uh huh! Do you suppose that God, who gave us the scriptures in the first place, was not capable of ensuring that the books He wanted in the Bible got in the canon? And that despite God's best efforts some books that He wanted in the canon got left out? I wonder what other mistakes and failures God had?

Men told you which books were inspired; John said there isn't enough to contain what the Redeemer said.

Yet, canonicity has been a driving force in determining His Word - again, books put together by men.

No man has authority over me, and I am entitled to see ALL text and rightly judge what is the truth with my own God given mind and spirit.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What was Jesus wounded for?

He was wounded because he was hated. Just like the OT said he would be in Isaiah.

Psalm 118:22