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Why is calling the Bible "the word" the most evil lie in Christendom?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by rodm1974, May 29, 2014.

  1. rodm1974

    rodm1974 Newbie

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    Why is calling the Bible "the word" the most evil lie in Christendom?

    Because then people read "Blessed are those who hear the Word of God and obey, Luke 11:28;" They think it means to read the Bible instead of listening for God to speak His words to them.

    Christendom has put a book between God and man, separating man from God's love, creating a form of godliness with no power, as He said: "Woe be to them for they have coupled an external form between God and man."


    The Greek for word in verse 38 is logon: which means 1) of speech; 1a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea; 1b) what someone has said.

    Just to be clear, the Greek for scripture in verse 39 is grafav , which means 1) a writing, thing written; 2) the Scripture, used to denote either the book itself, or its contents; 3) a certain portion or section of the Holy Scripture.


    John 5:37-40
    You have neither heard the Father's voice nor seen his form.
    But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.

    You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
    But you are not willing to come to me that you may have life.

    Jesus has just told us that reading the Bible does not lead to eternal life, because that is not coming to Him.

    In these four verses Jesus also speaks of His word abiding in you : "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe."

    By this verse Jesus makes a clear distinction between the word of God, and the Scriptures. From the Word of the Lord within:


    John 10:35
    So he called them gods, men to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

    Here is another verse where Jesus makes a clear distinction between the word of God and scripture, proving that scripture references to the word are not references to the Bible or scripture.

    Daniel 9:2
    In the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years.

    Acts 17:11
    These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

    From the Word of the Lord within:

    Studying the Bible is a work of the flesh.
    Studying the Bible is like studying the Law.
    Ten words from Him are better than ten copied letters.


    John 2:22
    Therefore when he had risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this to them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had spoken.

    Here is another verse that makes a clear distinction between the word of God and scripture, proving that scripture references to the word are not references to the Bible or scripture.

    2 Peter 3:15-17
    and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation — as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
    as also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

    Peter also categorizes Paul's epistles as scriptures, not the word.


    Matthew 21:42
    Jesus saith unto them, Did you never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?

    Notice! Jesus did not say: "Did you ever read the word;" and he never spoke of reading "the word;" He always referred to reading or knowing scriptures as "scriptures."

    He never spoke of "the word" being fulfilled; He always spoke of scriptures as being fulfilled.
     
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  2. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I think your claim sounds contradictory. It seems to be based on scriptures, but still it tries to revoke the meaning of them.

    Personally I think God’s message is in the Bible and the words that are there can give life.

    It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
    John 6:63

    Truly, truly I tell you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death at all.”
    John. 8:51

    Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word. Then my Father will love him, and we will go to him and make our home within him.
    John 14:23

    But obviously the words should be understood correctly and for that I think people can have Holy Spirit to teach the real meaning.
     
  3. IchoozJC

    IchoozJC Regular Member

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    So you think it's best left to us to just go by our "feelings" and do what we think God is telling us to do? I mean, if someone REALLY REALLY believes that it is God telling them, then who are we to say they are wrong...right?


    How about these people?

    Teacher Says 'Higher Power' Told Him To Attack Kid On Skateboard

    Mom Allegedly Tries To Drown Son In Puddle Because Jesus Told Her To

    Man Allegedly Stabs Grandma, Blames Archangel Michael

    Suspect: "Jesus And Mary Told Me To Kill Him Because He Is Satan's Spawn!"

    Islamist rebel who kidnapped 300 girls says "God told me to do it"

    A 24-year-old Christchurch man believed he was attacking the devil when he fatally stabbed his stepfather at their Redwood home last November.


    So, would you say the same thing in light of these folks who apparently reject the Bible, too?
     
  4. rodm1974

    rodm1974 Newbie

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    your twisting my words, common from religious people.
     
  5. IchoozJC

    IchoozJC Regular Member

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    If you say so. I'd rather be found guilty of twisting YOUR words than twisting God's words. :wave:
     
  6. rodm1974

    rodm1974 Newbie

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    SEARCHING THE SCRIPTURES

    As I started reading through Scripture it was obvious that Jesus was and is The Word of God. I am sure no-one would disagree with this. It is interesting to note that He is THE Word of God. The word THE is singular, meaning there is only one.

    My study took me into Greek and Hebrew lexicons and dictionaries and many times I had to go back to the Lord and ask Him to shed light on things that I did not understand. He always came through with answers that made sense, as you would expect.


    LOGOS OR RHEMA?

    When I was at Bible College I was taught that the logos was the written word and rhema the quickened word. In John chapter 1 where the Bible so plainly describes Jesus as being The Word of God the Greek word for 'word' is logos.

    My studies showed me that in the New Testament that Jesus is The Word (logos) of God. Rhema on the other hand is a revealed or quickened word or message. There is not an instance in all Scripture where the Bible is called The Word (or word) of God.


    BIG W OR LITTLE W?

    Many people have told me that the word (small w) of God is the Bible and The Word of God is Jesus. When I asked God about this His reply was to forget about the W/w concept and that He would teach me.


    JESUS - THE WORD OF GOD

    There are many instance in the Bible where The Word of God or The Word of The Lord is mentioned. A couple that spring to mind immediately are:

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

    Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh (Jesus), and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.

    Rev 19:13 And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

    Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight, but all things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

    The Word of God is the name, identity, title and honour given to Jesus alone. This is who He is. As The Word of God He is the promise of God and the fulfillment of that promise. Because Jesus always was, and always will be The Word of God, the very reputation of God was dependant on Jesus fulfilling the promise of salvation. To call anything else The Word (or word) of God takes this away from Him.

    If the Bible is the W/word of God, then God is four, not three. Father, Son (who is the Word Jn 1:14), the Holy Spirit and the W/word (Bible)? I don't think so!! Scripture tells us 1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.


    THE BIBLE - THE WORDS OF GOD

    There is no justification for calling the Bible the word of God in the Bible. People have said to me that:
    2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
    and is therefore the word of God.

    The Bible says differently:

    Joh 3:34 For He whom God has sent speaks the Words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.

    Rev 17:17 For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act with one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast until the Words of God will be fulfilled.

    Rev 22:9 Then he said to me, Behold! See, do not do it! For I am your fellow-servant, and of your brothers the prophets, and of those who keep the Words of this Book. Do worship to God.

    Joh 17:8 For I have given to them the Words which You gave Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from You. And they have believed that You sent Me.

    Below is a Scripture that is a bit different. Rhema is used for "My Words" which indicates fresh revelation such as you would expect from a living relationship with Jesus. If you hear what He is saying to you and are led and motivated by Him He will do what you ask of Him.

    Joh 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My Words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.


    THE DIFFERENCE

    According to Scripture, the Bible contains the words (plural) of God. This does not in any way detract from the title of The Word of God that belongs to Jesus.

    The trouble is that because we are so used to calling the Bible The W/word of God we automatically think of the Bible when The W/word of God is mentioned. How often have you heard the preacher or evangelist say "Let us open the word of God to.."

    This is Scripturally incorrect. Because it is second nature for so many of us to think of the Bible as the W/word of God we often give it the place that Jesus should have. The result is that we become Bible dependant rather than Jesus dependant. We live in accordance with the Scriptures, which is good, but it leads us to depend on the Scriptures rather than the experiential life we should have with Jesus.
     
  7. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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  8. IchoozJC

    IchoozJC Regular Member

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    39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
     
  9. rodm1974

    rodm1974 Newbie

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    Everything in the scriptures are "THE WORDS OF GOD"

    BUT

    Hebrews 4:12

    12 For God’s word is alive and ·working [active; powerful; effective] and is sharper than a double-edged sword.

    It ·cuts all the way into us, where the soul and the spirit are joined, to the center of our joints and bones

    It penetrates until it divides even soul and spirit, joints and marrow].

    And it ·judges [discerns] the ·thoughts [ideas] and ·feelings [attitudes; intentions] in our hearts.

    IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE!
     
  10. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    If you collide with a Bible at 10 km/sec it might indeed, cut all the way through you...

    But perhaps no one is thinking in such extremes during those times.
     
  11. Senecharnix

    Senecharnix The Emissary

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    It is uncool to describe the Bible as the "Word of God" because the Bible is not the "Word of God." Rather, it is composed of scriptures written by men who were inspired to write whatever they did. Never mind that scribes, translators, and editors have added to and taken away from such and that the inspiration of the original authors seems questionable in many cases. It is also notable that the processes that led to the Bible's composition were arbitrary ordeals of much debating, wrangling, posturing, and political games....
     
  12. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    3 times in Matthew 4 Jesus said "It is written...". Other times while teaching he would pull out a scroll and read (Luke 4) or quote passages from OT books/scrolls (Matthew 4).

    I'll follow Jesus' example that God's word has been written down for me to study and reflect upon, thank you very much!

    Praise God! :bow:
     
  13. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Of which you have no proof... :doh:
     
  14. Senecharnix

    Senecharnix The Emissary

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    All you need to do to find proof is study the history of the Scriptures and you will find all of the proof you need--if you keep your mind open enough to accept it....
     
  15. 2ducklow

    2ducklow angel duck

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    I think people are more comfortable calling the bible the bible instead of calling it what it really is which is the word of God. One gets attacked much more from demons (through people) by calling it the word of God than they do calling it the bible. It's the same reason some people refer to JEsus as Christ instead of Jesus. Also, by calling the bible the bible, it enables people to say stuff like "well Paul really meant...." or "Peter was just repeating jewish custom.....' That's not so easy to do when one says 'the word of God says ........." Calling it the bible enables people to call it Peter's words, or Paul's words or John's words etc. and leaving out the part about it being the word of God.
     
  16. Phantasman

    Phantasman Newbie

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    I couldn't agree more.

    Christ brought a sword. But the church took the sword and made the divisions on it's own. The ECF's took the sword and decided for themselves, what was truth (Canon) and what wasn't.

    Even John said:

    1 John 4
    1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    Yet if I read non Canon scriptures (Nag Hammadi) that claims Christ and teaches me more yet opposes "church doctrine", I am a lost non believer. I guess "every spirit" is redefined by the church as well. "as long as it's in the Bible".

    Go figure.
     
  17. 2ducklow

    2ducklow angel duck

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    no one can believe the word of God as recorded in the bible is the word of god (God's words) unless God speaks to them through those words. I've never had the Lord speak to me through books like the Gospel of Peter, etc. but have and do through every book in the bible (word of God). So either God speaks to one or he doesn't.

    Something that is often overlooked is that God speaks to all his people regardless of their doctrinal differences. and the predominance of doctrine amongst those whom God and Jesus knew at the formation of the accepted cannon were what we see in early Christian literature. and I believe they too chose those books that they felt god spoke to them through, and rejected those that God did not speak to them through. There were other considerations of course, but I think this one I've stated here was a big one that was in operation at that time. sometimes the facts are misrepresented and it leads to some faulty conclusions. Take for example the case of Abraham offering up his son Isaac as a sacrifice. Everyone assumes that Isaac was like 13 or 14 years old, but he wasn't if you examine the scriptures carefully you'll find he was about 30. So Isaac agreed to it of his own free will. this fact is often misrepresented.

    the laws God made were righteous and served God's purposes in those days. If we understood their purpose then we would see the validity of them. But that goes back to either one believes the word of God is the word of God or one doesn't believ. It all hinges on faith.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
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