Why is a bat a bird?

[Jase]

Like here, fowl/birds which creep on all four?

Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

No, Leviticus 11:13 is the bird section. Leviticus 11:20 are insects.

20 “‘All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you. (NIV)

 

[Jase]

So what now... Fowls as in bird... or winged insects

The Hebrew actually seems to be different. Oph in Hebrew refers strictly to birds/chicken. sheretz ha-oph refers to insects as stated in Leviticus 11:21.

Jewish Heritage Online Magazine

I just looked it up in the Masoretic Text.

http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/leviticus/11.html

Verse 13 uses just oph, where as verse 21 uses sheretz oph. So in Hebrew, Bats are in fact lumped in with birds, not all flying things. Insects and Birds are different in Hebrew.

 

[Rose_bud]

The Hebrew actually seems to be different. Oph in Hebrew refers strictly to birds/chicken. sheretz ha-oph refers to insects as stated in Leviticus 11:21.

Jewish Heritage Online Magazine

Yip picked up on that...

Strongs NASB
sherets: swarmers, swarming things
Original Word: שָׁ֫רֶץ
Transliteration: sherets
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh'-rets)
Short Definition: things

What about the four legs though, insects have six legs?

 

[Jase]

Yip picked up on that...

Strongs NASB
sherets: swarmers, swarming things
Original Word: שָׁ֫רֶץ
Transliteration: sherets
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh'-rets)
Short Definition: things

What about the four legs though, insects have six legs?

Seems that they differentiated between feet and legs with insects. 4 feet for walking/crawling, and 2 legs for leaping/jumping.

 

[mindfulness]

We must never confuse Batman with Birdman.

I love Birdman, he's so crazy!!

 

[mindfulness]

I do not need a scripture to keep me from eating a bat.

Yeah I don't think a bat would be very tasty.

Have any of you every eaten a bat?! :o

 

[Rose_bud]

Seems that they differentiated between feet and legs with insects. 4 feet for walking/crawling, and 2 legs for leaping/jumping.

googled it
Is the Bible wrong about insects having "four feet"?

 

[Fireinfolding]

No, Leviticus 11:13 is the bird section. Leviticus 11:20 are insects.

20 “‘All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you. (NIV)

From my earlier post if Lev 11:13 is the same # 5775

Lev 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among fowls 5775 ; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

etc etc... to...

Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Same number used above (for fowls/birds) 5775 as below the bat (listed under the above)

Lev 11:20 All fowls 5775 that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

Not that Lev 11:20 applies to Lev 11:13 the bat is the last named, but the same strongs # is used in both, well at least in the KJV

What number you have, or what word is it in both?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yeah I don't think a bat would be very tasty.

Have any of you every eaten a bat?! :o

I havent but its considered a delicacy in some countries

TLC Cooking "Are bats a delicacy in some countries?"

 

[Jase]

googled it
Is the Bible wrong about insects having "four feet"?

I wouldn't rely on Tektonics. It's an ultra conservative fundamentalist apologetics site. Most of their arguments are flat out wrong.

 

[Jase]

From my earlier post if Lev 11:13 is the same # 5775

Lev 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among fowls 5775 ; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

etc etc... to...

Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Same number used above (for fowls/birds) 5775 as below the bat (listed under the above)

Lev 11:20 All fowls 5775 that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

Not that Lev 11:20 applies to Lev 11:13 the bat is the last named, but the same strongs # is used in both, well at least in the KJV

What number you have, or what word is it in both?

The strong's numbers are the same for "flying". 5775 means flying things. But Leviticus 11:13 only refers to oph, which in Hebrew always refers to birds/chicken. Leviticus 11:20 adds an additional word, sheretz ha-oph. Which in Hebrew is never birds, but swarming insects. Bat is included in the list of "oph" (Birds/Chicken). A bat is neither a bird, nor an insect. But just from watching its behavior, to someone who doesn't know biology, a Bat behaves much like a bird. Thus they lumped it in with birds/chicken.

 

[Rose_bud]

I wouldn't rely on Tektonics. It's an ultra conservative fundamentalist apologetics site. Most of their arguments are flat out wrong.

No worries... I sift out what's relevant and throw out the rest..

 

[Rose_bud]

I havent but its considered a delicacy in some countries

TLC Cooking "Are bats a delicacy in some countries?"

Dont think Id be able to stomach bat...

 

[mindfulness]

I wouldn't rely on Tektonics. It's an ultra conservative fundamentalist apologetics site. Most of their arguments are flat out wrong.

I agree with that. They're not as bad as gotquestions though. Some of the stuff they've said on there is just outright incorrect.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The strong's numbers are the same for "flying". 5775 means flying things. But Leviticus 11:13 only refers to oph, which in Hebrew always refers to birds/chicken. Leviticus 11:20 adds an additional word, sheretz ha-oph. Which in Hebrew is never birds, but swarming insects. Bat is included in the list of "oph" (Birds/Chicken). A bat is neither a bird, nor an insect. But just from watching its behavior, to someone who doesn't know biology, a Bat behaves much like a bird. Thus they lumped it in with birds/chicken.

Adam didnt know

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


Unless these are bugs too

 

[Fireinfolding]

Dont think Id be able to stomach bat...

Me neither, its right up there with monkey brains, I'd rather have a whopper or something

 

[Rose_bud]

I agree with that. They're not as bad as gotquestions though. Some of the stuff they've said on there is just outright incorrect.

So you are not a fundamentalist?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Just curious, where God should have best listed the bat? We have what? Things in the sea with and without fins, birds (not listed by feathers but as flying things) and we have insects and like cloven hoofed things and not cloven hoof things.

Should He have listed the bat under cloven hoofed things, or cud chewers, or insects? Which one?

Or should He have listed another topic, or stuck the flying rodent in with the non flying rodents?

Hows that work? Could God have done better here?

 

[mindfulness]

So you are not a fundamentalist?

Did I ever give the impression that I was? I think my responses in this topic (i.e. "a bat is NOT a bird," despite whatever the author of Leviticus thought) is evidence enough of that.

 

[mindfulness]

Just curious, where God should have best listed the bat? We have what? Things in the sea with and without fins, birds (not listed by feathers but as flying things) and we have insects and like cloven hoofed things and not cloven hoof things.

Should He have listed the bat under cloven hoofed things, or cud chewers, or insects? Which one?

Or should He have listed another topic, or stuck the flying rodent in with the non flying rodents?

Hows that work? Could God have done better here?

Does it matter? He just later decided it's okay to eat bats (in the NT) anyway, so what difference would it have made really?