Why ID is logically incoherant.

[keith99]

ID is in no way illogical. It can be completely coherent. In fact it has just one flaw.

As science or even philosophy it is totally useless. It allows for no prediction and no testing. Anything can fit into it as the answer 'Because that is the way the designer designed it' answers everything yet tells us nothing.

 

[Nitron]

Once again, what is it that comes out of the body???

An hallucination.

 

[Baggins]

Well that's my point! Firstly, where did the chemicals come from?...the sigularity?...the quantum particles?

There is no evidence just speculation and yet you believe it.

I would also, say that though, there may seem to be no scientific evidence of God that does not mean or prove that He does not exist and that He in the beginning He did not create the Heavens and the Earth.

There is no strawman here.

Yes there is you just attacked it again, the same one, it is lying on the floor leaking straw everywhere.

The singularity is not nothing it is everything, the whole universe came from it. I accept this because the vast majority of astro-physacists accept it.

We don't know where it comes from because we do not have thet echnology or theory to see that far back into the universes history so we will say with all honesty that for the first few microseconds of the universe's history we don't know what happened, we don't know whether that singularity always existed or whether it was created. You can shove god into that gap if you please, but don't complain if he is evicted as science advances.

Personally I haven't got the education to understand it, but I know how science works, and just as an astro-physacist would accept the explanation of the earth's history given by geologists so the opposite is true.


For the last time, science doesn't say that the universe and everything in it - stars, chemicals, life, you - came from nothing. It says they came from a singularity.

OK?

 

[Athrond]

No, our brain is just a piece of meat. A very intricate piece of meat but none the less just flesh. When the spirit leaves, the brain is still there, but it no longer can think, can it? Still just a piece of meat. You've heard the term meathead, haven't you?

Seriously, when your spirit leaves the body, you still can think, you are still you, you just no longer have a vehicle to get around here on the earth. The Bible does promise a new body/vehicle to accomodate your spirit at a future time. The promise to those who believe, though.

sounds a bit far fetched. How do you know? How do I know?

 

[Inan3]

Yes there is you just attacked it again, the same one, it is lying on the floor leaking straw everywhere.

Oh, poor strawman, forgive me. If I only knew what you were I might not have done this cruel and certainly unintentional thing to you.

The singularity is not nothing it is everything, the whole universe came from it. I accept this because the vast majority of astro-physacists accept it.

We don't know where it comes from because we do not have thet echnology or theory to see that far back into the universes history so we will say with all honesty that for the first few microseconds of the universe's history we don't know what happened, we don't know whether that singularity always existed or whether it was created.

Bravo, Baggins, I knew you had the ability to see beyond the natural realm.

You can shove god into that gap if you please, but don't complain if he is evicted as science advances.

I'm not going to shove God in there, I don't have to He IS there. Baggins if you only knew what an awesome God He is. I know you would love Him. He's the greatest scientist ever. You would so enjoy Him!

Personally I haven't got the education to understand it, but I know how science works, and just as an astro-physacist would accept the explanation of the earth's history given by geologists so the opposite is true.

Well, you don't need the education to know God you just need to believe.

For the last time, science doesn't say that the universe and everything in it - stars, chemicals, life, you - came from nothing. It says they came from a singularity.

OK?

OK, whatever you say, Bags.

 

[Inan3]

sounds a bit far fetched. How do you know? How do I know?

I know because I believed my way there and so can you. Believing comes before knowledge.

 

[Inan3]

An hallucination.

Ya..Right!

 

[Inan3]

ID is in no way illogical. It can be completely coherent. In fact it has just one flaw.

As science or even philosophy it is totally useless. It allows for no prediction and no testing. Anything can fit into it as the answer 'Because that is the way the designer designed it' answers everything yet tells us nothing.

God's design is not intended to be predicted or tested. It is intended to be believed.

 

[Nitron]

God's design is not intended to be predicted or tested. It is intended to be believed.

What reason would you give to believe it?

 

[Inan3]

What reason would you give to believe it?

Just look around. Anyone who can see knows that there is more to life than just living and dying. There is spirit and meaning and purpose. Everyone knows there is more but some just stuff it down and push it away because they can't scientifically figure it out. Just embrace it and you will find out why you should believe it.

 

[thaumaturgy]

...

 

[Nitron]

Just look around. Anyone who can see knows that there is more to life than just living and dying. There is spirit and meaning and purpose. Everyone knows there is more but some just stuff it down and push it away because they can't scientifically figure it out. Just embrace it and you will find out why you should believe it.

Oh, I've tried embracing it.

Circular logic goes round and round.

 

[Loudmouth]

God's design is not intended to be predicted or tested. It is intended to be believed.

Then I choose not to believe it. Hence, it is not designed.

 

[FishFace]

I'm not going to shove God in there, I don't have to He IS there.

How do you know?

Baggins if you only knew what an awesome God He is. I know you would love Him.

Been there, done that... got the emotional scars.

Well, you don't need the education to know God you just need to believe.

"You don't need the education to know Pixies, you just need to believe"

 

[FishFace]

Just look around. Anyone who can see knows that there is more to life than just living and dying.

Knowledge requires truth and justification. I don't believe you have either. So many people (by no means everyone) believe that there is more to life than that, but that is no indication of anything further.
(In fact, most people think there is happiness, pleasure and so on...)

There is spirit and meaning and purpose.

1: Evidence.
2&3: Evidence that these things are not man-made?

Everyone knows there is more but some just stuff it down and push it away because they can't scientifically figure it out. Just embrace it and you will find out why you should believe it.

Good grief, I'm sure you can do better than that. Argumentum ad populum already describes this but I'd prefer to call this the argument from "everyone knows" fallacy.
Inan, face it, just because people agree with you doesn't mean you're right. Get some decent arguments.

 

[thaumaturgy]

God's design is not intended to be predicted or tested. It is intended to be believed.

Tell God not to worry. If it's good workmanship it can withstand a few simple primates poking and prodding it a bit.

 

[Soul Searcher]

I know because I believed my way there and so can you. Believing comes before knowledge.

Sounds like you are saying that if you believe it then you will fill in the gaps later, or that belief is what makes it real. Either way seems faulty.

 

[PeterMaclellan]

You Cant Believe Something Into Existence.

 

[Nitron]

You Cant Believe Something Into Existence.

Haha, an evo saying that.

You guys believed aborigines into existence. Silly evos.

 

[Naraoia]

Just look around. Anyone who can see knows that there is more to life than just living and dying. There is spirit and meaning and purpose. Everyone knows there is more but some just stuff it down and push it away because they can't scientifically figure it out. Just embrace it and you will find out why you should believe it.

I know there is more and I'm pretty sure there isn't.

Do you know how?

I'm a human. I look at the world and see wonders upon wonders. I seek meaning in my life.

I'm a scientist (though only an apprentice). I look at the world and see no evidence of anything that would make it 'wonderful' or give it a 'meaning' outside the subjective judgement of humans.

Strangely enough, that doesn't stop me from admiring it.

Meaning and purpose, as far as I can tell, are a conscious mind's tools for dealing with the world and motivating itself.