Why ID is logically incoherant.

[Corey]

Can intelligence originate from no intelligence at all? Everything that has a beginning comes from something else that shares traits. Can people rationally feel that thinking organisms had their origin from the mindless inorganic?

To follow the line of argument in the first sentence...it would mean that babies can't develop intelligence either.

 

[Inan3]

angryangry angry

and also ballerina

Are you ok now?

 

[Inan3]

Evidence, please.

Just ask those who have out-of-the-body experiences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

 

[Inan3]

Inan, meet the crab nebula.....

​

the chinese certainly thought it was an explosion form nothing - can you prove them wrong?
Were you intelligent when you were first conceived? A fusing of two cells that couldn't possibly survice outside of its host/mother?
So, everything has a begining eh.
universe started with a big bang then.
What's that I hear you cry? God made the big bang? So what was god's beginning then?

Well by all means, if the Chinese believe it, who am I do disagree! It must be so. NOT!! I don't need to prove them wrong...They need to prove it so. There is no proof that this came from "nothing." (Pretty, though....God is so awesome!) It's obvious that there was something before it happened.

You guys have to know that it just couldn't happen that way. It takes more faith to believe that than to believe the Bible!

And defintely, there needed to be something for conception to ever take place. BTW The Lord says He knows us when we are formed in our mothers womb.

 

[Baggins]

That is a mighty big straw man you're building there Inan.

Does anyone say that anything came from nothing.

The standard scientific view of the beginning of life is that it marked a change from non-living chemical reactions to living - self replicating - chemical reactions.

The standard scientific view of the origins of the universe is not that it came from nothing butthat it came from a singularity, and we don't know about before that.

I don't think anyone believes that the universe comes from nothing, we simply have no evidence.

Th eonly things which appear to come from nothing are certain quantum particles.

 

[MoonLancer]

Just ask those who have out-of-the-body experiences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

I had an out of body experience, and I have a very different belief system then you. Out of body experiences don't prove your point.

 

[Patashu]

Just ask those who have out-of-the-body experiences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

How do you know you're not imagining your out of body experience? It's entirely possible.

 

[RangerJoe]

Logical Fallacy #4: Your logic

How could I have been so blind?!?! It was right there in front of me all the time and I didn't even see it!! Wait..no..that's not right...Oh I remember now...

YOU FAIL AT DEBATE!

 

[Loudmouth]

I don't need to prove them wrong...They need to prove it so.

Perhaps you could follow your own advice.

 

[RangerJoe]

Well by all means, if the Chinese believe it, who am I do disagree! It must be so. NOT!! I don't need to prove them wrong...They need to prove it so. There is no proof that this came from "nothing." (Pretty, though....God is so awesome!) It's obvious that there was something before it happened.

You guys have to know that it just couldn't happen that way. It takes more faith to believe that than to believe the Bible!

And defintely, there needed to be something for conception to ever take place. BTW The Lord says He knows us when we are formed in our mothers womb.

People who have had out of body experiences are most likely either A) Imagining it or B) Lying. The majority of the people I've met who've claimed to have had them are attention seekers who use supernatural mumbo jumbo to get people to think they are important

Please also keep in mind that you are providing "facts" that have no proof other than their source and your asking us to prove what we believe but we are expected to believe it because of the book? Your contradictory in your statements and have a vast, vast army of Straw Men to support you.

Just try to actually take something subjectively and further your own enlightenment. If the Abrahamic God is so powerful and omnicient why didn't he mention the other galaxies and the dinosaurs and the fact that insects have six legs, etc. etc. etc.

If there is a God/Goddess/Thing/FSM then it would be on a cosmic/galactic level.

All hail the God of the Gaps.

 

[Inan3]

People who have had out of body experiences are most likely either A) Imagining it or B) Lying. The majority of the people I've met who've claimed to have had them are attention seekers who use supernatural mumbo jumbo to get people to think they are important

That's always the easy route to take, "people are attention seekers or lying", when we don't want to consider that there might be things that we can't see with our eyes BUT...(see my next answer)

Please also keep in mind that you are providing "facts" that have no proof other than their source and your asking us to prove what we believe but we are expected to believe it because of the book? Your contradictory in your statements and have a vast, vast army of Straw Men to support you.

You expect me to believe what these Chinese said and they have no proof just speculation. I wouldn't doubt that just because they said it you believed them. You didn't require them to prove it. Which is the case with a lot of so called "scientific evidence."

Just try to actually take something subjectively and further your own enlightenment. If the Abrahamic God is so powerful and omnicient why didn't he mention the other galaxies and the dinosaurs and the fact that insects have six legs, etc. etc. etc.

How about this for being subjective...the reason He didn't tell us all those things is He wasn't giving us a Science lesson, or a History lesson, or any other lesson. The Bible is a Spiritual book. God is a Spirit and they that come to Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. The Bible is the road map to get us to God. It gives us the facts we need to know to get there. It's a book of faith not scientific evidence.

If there is a God/Goddess/Thing/FSM then it would be on a cosmic/galactic level.

God is on a spiritual level in the spirit realm. It's above the cosmic/galactic level.



Now don't take your anger out on me.

 

[Inan3]

Perhaps you could follow your own advice.

I don't need to prove anything. I'm not called to prove God just tell you about Him. God will prove Himself to you if you call on Him in faith. That's just how it works, LM.

 

[Inan3]

How could I have been so blind?!?! It was right there in front of me all the time and I didn't even see it!! Wait..no..that's not right...Oh I remember now...

YOU FAIL AT DEBATE!

I see you have a somewhat dramatic streak. That could be a plus for you.

 

[Inan3]

How do you know you're not imagining your out of body experience? It's entirely possible.

Okay. Why don't you do that and tell us how it proved out. The truth is you know when you are imagining something and when you are experiencing something. Once I was in the hospital and they gave me morphine after an operation. I halucinated and saw some things but my mind knew I was halucinating and it was the drugs not me. My point is these people are not insane who have experienced these things and they know what they know happened.

 

[Inan3]

I had an out of body experience, and I have a very different belief system then you. Out of body experiences don't prove your point.

Okay, what part of you came out of your body?

 

[Nitron]

It's possible to have out of body experiences from natural causes (see the Penn and Teller episode on this.)

 

[Inan3]

That is a mighty big straw man you're building there Inan.

Does anyone say that anything came from nothing.

The standard scientific view of the beginning of life is that it marked a change from non-living chemical reactions to living - self replicating - chemical reactions.

The standard scientific view of the origins of the universe is not that it came from nothing butthat it came from a singularity, and we don't know about before that.

I don't think anyone believes that the universe comes from nothing, we simply have no evidence.

Th eonly things which appear to come from nothing are certain quantum particles.

Well that's my point! Firstly, where did the chemicals come from?...the sigularity?...the quantum particles?

There is no evidence just speculation and yet you believe it.

I would also, say that though, there may seem to be no scientific evidence of God that does not mean or prove that He does not exist and that He in the beginning He did not create the Heavens and the Earth.

There is no strawman here.

 

[Nitron]

Then what on earth DOES mean the he created the heavens and the earth?

-Louis

 

[Inan3]

Then what on earth DOES mean the he created the heavens and the earth?

-Louis

It doesn't tell us that specifically. It just means that He did it. He knew that it would be debated down through the ages. That is not His concern. His concern is that we believe in Him and that we know Him.

 

[Inan3]

It's possible to have out of body experiences from natural causes (see the "[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]" episode on this.)

Once again, what is it that comes out of the body???