Invalidusername
Well-Known Member
- May 11, 2018
- 1,373
- 662
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Republican
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Bah, humbug!
Reminds me of this Covenantle parable:
Reminds me of this Covenantle parable:
Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Luke 16:19
19 "There was a certain rich man [Scrooge] who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day."
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus[Bob Cratchit], full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
Well, first of all, that debunk your idea of Constantine being the one who made "Sunday Worship" and that it is pagan because of that.
Second, this just happened fifty years after Revelations was written (which also mentions the Lord's Day), so it is probably that not worshipping on Sunday is an innovation since it is something Early Christians never did.
Third, if it would be against God's word, then there would be records of people debating against Sunday worshipping, which there aren't.
Finally, the Bible wasn't joint together until at least another century, so I believe these reports who show this wasn't a conflict during that time.
Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical.
Equally the scriptures never forbid the celebration of Christmas. So what now?When we say it is not biblical, we say it is something that we should not indulge in. Surely God's Word never condemned us in using horses or other modes of travel like ships, etc.
Jason I am with you 100%.Important Note:
(Please read this before posting and or reading the rest of my OP):
I want to first say that I love you in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also want to say that I love all people. I am commanded by God to even love my enemies. My message today here is not that I want to be of hate or of malice, but of love. I say what I do in love to you. God tells me to even love the sinner and hate the sin. I am especially fond of my fellow Christians who truly desire to follow Christ and who seek to obey Him in everything that He tells us to do within His Word. That is what this thread is about. If you are offended by what I will say with Scripture, please know I am not saying I am better than you or that I do not care about you. I am nothing. The Lord our God is everything; And I love you deeply. I am merely calling you in love to follow God's Word and His Word alone. Only God can open our eyes, and change our hearts to see what His Word says in so many ways. I am only speaking and doing that which I believe is right by the Word of God. This thread is merely to show you what the Bible says about a popular celebration of the world when we compare it with Scripture. For surely we can love our families without a specific calendar day telling us to do so. We can most assuredly love our family by God's Word alone. In fact, speaking of God's Word, we are told within His Word to test everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are to hold fast to that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). My friends, I call you all in love to look at the Holy Scriptures today with a fresh new pair of eyes. Before you begin, I would like you to take a moment and pray. I would like for you to pray to the Lord and ask Him for wisdom and understanding before reading what I am about to share with you in love involving the Scriptures. For I write this because I love you in Christ Jesus.
Side Note: Did you pray yet? Did you really do it? Please do so now if you have not done so. Anyways, may the Lord's love and goodness be upon you this day that the Lord has made.
Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical.
#1. Christmas is not celebrated anywhere in the Bible.
(a) Jesus is not a baby right now but He is our risen Lord.
We are never told to honor just a baby Jesus alone,
but we are told to live unto a risen Lord (2 Corinthians 5:15).
Focusing on a baby version of Jesus (without mentioning the resurrection of Christ in our message) is to take the focus off of our risen Lord Jesus Christ. If our message does not include a risen Christ, then our preaching is in vain according to Paul:
"And if Christ be not risen,
then is our preaching vain,
and your faith is also vain." (1 Corinthians 15:14).
Tell me, does Christmas focus on a risen Lord or does it focus on His birth?
(b) While there are biblical clues to Christ's birth date, the date of Christ's birth is nowhere specifically mentioned in the Bible and oddly his birth is coincidentally placed upon the date of the worship of other pagan gods, and a popular pagan festival, instead.
Is it okay to worship God in any way we like? In Genesis 4, we see Cain trying to bring the harvest of the ground unto God as a sacrifice instead of offering an animal sacrifice like his brother Abel did correctly (See Genesis 4:3-7). Cain's offering was not accepted. His worship was not accepted. Why? Because he was doing his own thing. Cain grew angry and decided to kill his own brother over this. Friend, do you hate or dislike Christians who do not keep Christ-mass?
Jesus says he seeks for those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). Are we worshiping in truth if there are some pagan elements (which are a lie) mixed in with the truth? Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life? (John 14:6). Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shalt you serve." (Luke 4:8). But how can we worship God alone if we are involving pagan elements in our worship of Him. Was not Cain's offering of doing whatever he wanted not accepted by God? (See Genesis 4:5). Was Cain truly worshiping God alone by being obedient to him or was he worshiping God his own way?
#2. Christmas Trees.
21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God, which thou shalt make thee.
22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the Lord thy God hateth."
(Deuteronomy 16:21).
2 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (Jeremiah 10:2-4).
Celts and druids (witches) believe trees are sacred or magical objects.
Meaning, they holds some kind of significance spiritually for them.
Even if you did not put up trees yourself.
You cannot stop others from doing so.
Christmas trees is about the holiday (holy day) season.
Some people sing praises to the Christmas tree (without thinking about it) in Christmas carols. People give attention to a beautiful object and put presents around it (like a gift or offering) to this beautiful object. Some people dance around the Christmas tree. Sure seems like harmless fun, but what if the Bible is really condemning trees?
Also, why would you want to imitate a practice that is similar to the druids and put up a sacred special tree in your home?
Sure, they may not think it is a god or idol exactly because your not bowing down to it or praying to it, but does that mean we can just put statues of demonic idols in our home and God would be okay with that?
#3. Do not imitate the heathen's ways or men's traditions.
Colossians 2:8 says,
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
Is Christmas something in the Bible or is it more like a tradition of men and or after the rudiments of the world? Think about it. Should we let a world recognized holiday tell us how we are to worship our Lord? Or do we let the Bible alone tell us how we are to worship our Lord?
"Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." (Romans 12:2) (NLT).
"...Learn not the way of the heathen,..." (Jeremiah 10:2).
But it has Jesus in the holiday and we focus on Jesus, so it is okay, right?
It is written,
"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2 Corinthians 11:4).
Paul is saying to bear with them that preach another Jesus. He does not say to embrace another Jesus in whom they have not preached.
The Jesus that is being preached in Christmas is a baby Jesus and how we must give honor to Him by exchanging gifts (sometimes going into debt) around a Christmas tree.
In fact, 9 out of the 11 times the word "tradition" appears in the King James Bible, it is in reference to the traditions of men that were bad and not good (See this link here at BlueLetterBible). In fact, Jesus says that men were transgressing God's commands by their man made traditions. Christmas is a human tradition of man and it is nowhere to be found within the Scriptures; And we are told not to imitate the way of the heathen or the customs of the world. Christmas is very much a custom or celebration of the world.
#4. True Giving vs Christmas Giving.
Do not give out of compulsion. For Paul says,
"You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.""
(2 Corinthians 9:7) (NLT).
Yet, Christmas is a time where you feel compelled to give out of pressure.
Christmas is also a time when it is about the exchange of gifts.
Yet, Jesus says,
Give without expecting anything in return.
For do not sinners love their own?
For sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
"And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks have you? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. (Luke 6:34).
32 "For if you love them who love you, what thanks have you? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if you do good to them who do good to you, what thanks have you? for sinners also do even the same." (Luke 6:32-33).
"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." (Luke 6:35).
12 "Then said he also to him that bade him, When you give a dinner or a supper, call not your friends, nor your brethren, neither your kinsmen, nor your rich neighbors; lest they also bid you again, and a recompense be made you.
13 But when you give a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14 And you shall be blessed; for they cannot recompense you: for you shall be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:12-14).
8 "And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, "This day is salvation come to this house,...""
(Luke 19:8-9).
#5. The focus of Christmas is materialism and not the worship of Christ on this day.
Most do not actually celebrate Jesus's birth on this day but they actually focus more on the gift giving and the decorating and in celebrating or having a good time with their family. For when the holidays come, do you prepare yourself in prayer, fasting, reading Scripture in order to worship Christ on Christmas? Or are you more focused on buying things for others and in getting together with your family to just have a good time? An insane amount of money is spent on Christmas each year and people have gone into financial debt as a result of it. Others beat each other up in department stores all in the spirit of Christmas. Is such a material focused holiday really something that is of God? How are you honoring Christ's birth truly? Are you focusing on those Scripture verses on the Nativity each year as a family? Do you and your family feel like you are drawing closer to God each year by celebrating the Lord's birth? Or is it more about the stuff with you saying that you are honoring Christ? I say this not to get you or anyone else here upset, but I say this as a means to examine yourself in your walk with the Lord in everything you do. To prove to you that Christmas is not materialistic, just tell your kids next year that they are not getting any gifts and watch their reaction. They have depended on being rich with things and not rich in the things of God. For some even look forward to Christmas just so as to receive money. However, the Bible says,#6. Be ye holy and separate from the world.
10 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
Atheists, psychics, and people of many faiths celebrate Christmas. It is the one time of year where everyone gets together to give and whereby some say they are doing it to honor Christ's birth. Everyone is one big happy family celebrating and exchanging gifts and excited over their newly received material goods. Everyone including Christ haters are celebrating Christmas along with Christ lovers. There is even an Atheist Christmas Carol (See here and or here). But the Bible says be ye holy (1 Peter 1:16), and be ye separate (2 Corinthians 6:17). The Bible says what fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14). For it is written,#7. Love not the things of this world.
17 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:" (Ephesians 4:17-21).
In 1 John 2:15-17, it says love not the world, neither the things in this world, if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them.Anyways, I say all this in love and with the hope you will investigate the origins of Christmas on your own and seek the Scriptures with God in deep prayer and fasting on this matter. I know that if you will seek the truth, God will show it to you. Again, I say these things not condemn or hurt anyone but I say these things in love so as to answer the call of God in your Sanctification in being truly holy for the Lord. So..."Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16).
Christmas is technically a thing of this world. It is world recognized holiday.
But if you tell people you stopped celebrating Christmas, expect some hateful comments from people. Why?
"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19).
Colossians 3:1-3 says,
"Since you were raised from the dead with Christ, aim at what is in heaven, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Think only about the things in heaven, not the things on earth. Your old sinful self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God."
Christmas is not something that is celebrated in Heaven. We are to think about the things in Heaven or above and not on the things of this Earth. Our focus should be on building ourselves up in righteousness, love, and faith according to God's Word and not according to the wisdom or ways of men.
I don't know what your experience of church at Christmas has been, but in my church life, I have never heard a message given at this time of year which did not go on to talk about the reason Christ came, His death and resurrection and our need of a Saviour.Focusing on a baby version of Jesus (without mentioning the resurrection of Christ in our message) is to take the focus off of our risen Lord Jesus Christ. If our message does not include a risen Christ, then our preaching is in vain according to Paul
Celebrating Christmas does not have to involve pagan elements.But how can we worship God alone if we are involving pagan elements in our worship of Him.
I have a tree in my home as a reminder of the one who created it and also a reminder of the cross which would have been made from a tree. My home is filled with all kinds of plants - maybe some of them are also used in religious/pagan practices in some parts of the world, but all plants were created by my Heavenly Father, so I feel a perfect liberty in enjoying them in my home. God made trees. Pagans do not have the right to 'take over' for their own use any aspect of God's creation. (NB: I believe the verses you quote referring to a tree refer to the manufacturing of an idol, not to decorating ones home with plants. The passage is clearly referring to the foolishness of believing that an object you yourself have made and which is unable to move unless you move it can somehow be a 'god' which can help you)People give attention to a beautiful object and put presents around it (like a gift or offering) to this beautiful object.
It doesn't.Should we let a world recognized holiday tell us how we are to worship our Lord?
My family have never gone into debt over Christmas (or any other time) and as I mentioned before, we always speak of the reason Jesus came.The Jesus that is being preached in Christmas is a baby Jesus and how we must give honor to Him by exchanging gifts (sometimes going into debt) around a Christmas tree.
I don't.Yet, Christmas is a time where you feel compelled to give out of pressure
Yes and yes. One of the things I love most about Christmas is the opportunity to spend more time thinking about these things alone and with other believers. The other thing is the increased opportunity to share the Gospel, especially with those who want to know why our Christmas looks so 'different' to what they see in the world.Are you focusing on those Scripture verses on the Nativity each year as a family? Do you and your family feel like you are drawing closer to God each year by celebrating the Lord's birth?
If you see greed on Christmas, that’s the fault of the people not the celebration. It’s true that all scripture is profitable doctrine, but do you see the words only profitable doctrine there? If you want to interpret the Jeremiah 10 to ban Christmas trees you’d also have to ban chairs and all forms of furniture. So if I cut my tree and turn it into a decorated table according to you it would violate this verse. Deuteronomy 16 bans images of worship not all forms of images. And no normal person prays to a Christmas tree, even actual neo pagans don’t pray to Christmas trees.While I do not have a problem with a believer honoring Christ's birth on their own, to make a secular holiday on his birth alone without mentioning the resurrection is only telling half of the story. People know about his birth and they give gifts to each other, but that's about it. Most really are not worshiping Jesus on this day. It would be nice if they did, but that simply is not the reality we see in this holiday. We see greed, and materialism on this holiday. We see nothing of the teachings of Jesus on this holiday.
All Scripture is profitable doctrine (1 Timothy 3:16-17).
See my post #73.
It's not describing furniture in Jeremiah 10. It is talking about trees that they would decorate as a part of tree worship. Deuteronomy 16 was just one way to prevent the Israelites from even getting close to being tempted to be involved in tree worship.
Tree worship is a real thing through out history. Even if you wanted these verses not to be about tree worship that did take place in Bible times, it still was a problem and would have been condemned by God's Word regardless. Druids today are involved in regarding trees as sacred or magical objects. Wreaths and mistletoes all come from pagan origins.
Do you believe every organization that talks about Jesus is telling the whole truth about Jesus? Paul talks about those who preach another Jesus. This is another Jesus being preached here because they leave out the resurrection, they place his birth at the wrong time during the worship of other pagan gods, they focus on greed and materialism on this day (Which runs contrary to the teachings of Jesus).
If you move the letter "n" in Santa to the end... it spells the name of the enemy of God's people. Nicholas is similar to the name of the Nicolaitans in the Bible.
In Revelation 2:6, Jesus says this about them:
"But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."
Also, just because somebody gives gifts does not make them a good person.
Jesus said in Matthew 7:11 that a person can be evil and give good gifts.
Perhaps there a few small select groups or a few rare people who actually do worship and pray and honor Jesus during Christmas, but even if they do so, they are in the minority. Most do not celebrate it in this way. But even if the majority people did worship and honor Christ's birth (with no mention of His resurrection), it is not something we are specifically instructed to do within His Word. While I am not against honoring our Lord's birth, it would be in light or view of the fact that He is our risen Lord now and not just a baby in a manger. Jesus was also not born on December 25th during the time of many pagan gods. The Bible strongly suggests in light of the Talmud that the Lord was actually born on Nisan 1 (the Jewish New Year) whereby He makes all things new. The problem here is going outside of God's Word when it comes to worshiping Him. Cain tried to worship God his own way that God did not instruct Him to do. His offering was not accepted by God.
But sin and worldly desires is what takes place on Christmas.
It is about greed and materialism.
Maybe your version of Christmas is a little different, but an elite group or a few small individuals is not going to change how the holiday is generally celebrated by most.
Nowhere does it say that Jesus was at a drunken Wedding party with him joining in on that.
Which is exactly my point. The Christmas holiday is geared towards materialism and greed. It is world recognized holiday.
Not the same Jesus. Paul says if someone preaches another Jesus in whom we have not preached... bear with them. Paul never preached about a Jesus whereby we...
(a) Worship Him as a baby (leaving out His resurrection).
(b) Recognize that He was born on December 25th.
(c) Celebrate Jesus by us giving gifts to each other in such way that contradicted the teachings of Jesus.
Not the same thing as Christmas today; Not even close.
Jesus actually condemned the form of giving that takes place on Christmas today in Luke 6.
Stop. Think for a second. Tree worship existed through out history.
If such is the case, and it is, then the Bible is simply talking about both forms of idols. Both the tree idols and the graven image (statue like people or animal) idols.
Constantine had absolutely no impact on Christians worshiping on Sunday. They had already been doing it for centuries, despite the fact that they had to go to work that same day. Today we separate Vespers from Matins and the Divine Liturgy, celebrating Vespers on Saturday evening, and then Matins and Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning, but the early Christians celebrated the 3 together after sundown of the Sabbath which is Sunday. (we still do this occasionally when we celebrate what is termed a "Vigil service")Constantine chose Sunday to be the day for Christian worship as it already enjoyed special status in the Roman week.
If you swap the consonants in Jason, you get Sonja!If you move the letter "n" in Santa to the end... it spells the name of the enemy of God's people. Nicholas is similar to the name of the Nicolaitans in the Bible.
it's not biblical
and neither is cable TV.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?