Why I keep the Sabbath

[Cribstyl]

I see in the context that Christ has freed us from the curse of the law.
I see that we are not justified by the law, but by grace.
I see that we who are Gentiles have been accepted into God's chosen people...we are "grafted in".

What I do not see is that the law is no longer binding. I do not see anywhere that we may now lie, or steal...well, I'm not going to type the whole list out again.
And what I do not see is any of my brothers here promoting any such thing.

If you agree that we may not do these things...and I'm pretty sure we all agree that we may not do these things...then how are we free from the law? Is it not that we are free from the curse of the law, which is death?

How am I running from anything? I'm the one who is running to God, not away from Him. I'm the one trying my level best to obey Him.
I think you guys are too...at least I hope so.

How do you understand:? Gal 3:12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


(Clue you miss: The law and faith are two seperate covenants. If you choose the law, you'll have to keep all it's commandments.
Here is what these scriptures claim about the law
Gal 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
(The law is Not against God's promises but if the law promised eternal life, righteousness would have been by the law.)
Angel you cant see that the law can only send you to Hell rather than give you a path to eternal life.
Angel you also cant see that being declared right before God, is NOT by the law
Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(Angel you cant see that we're all under SIN, not under the law. That's does not give us a liscene to sin.)

Gal 3:23
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(Angel, you dont have the understanding that the doctrine of Faith is the New Covenant, and The Law is the Old Covenant that predates Faith. So we'll argue to no end)

Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[Angelquill]

I see that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man comes to the Father but through Him.
I see that He is the administrator of the New Covenant, and He very clearly said that He had not come to destroy the law, but that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away.
I see that the just will live by faith...and who are the just if they are not the ones who obey God?
I see that faith without works is dead...that is that it is not living faith.
I see that a schoolmaster is a teacher...we are to learn from the law.
I see that grace is there to forgive us for sin...what is it that makes "sin" so "sinful" if it is not that God has forbidden it.

And now I see that my brother is actually saying that grace does not give him a license to sin.
I wonder if we are not saying more or less the same thing? We're looking at the same elephant...but like those blind men, we are only seeing the part closest to us.

If the Sabbath were still perceived as being Sunday, I doubt we'd be arguing at all.

I see this whole debate as one more tool of Satan's to divide the people of God.
He is very, very good at that...33,000 denominations, and counting. All of them very sure that they have it "right"...and everyone else is "wrong"...

 

[Angelquill]

What I do not see is that it is a choice between law and faith.
Rather, it is a choice between justice and mercy.
I choose mercy.

I hope we all do!

 

[from scratch]

I see that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man comes to the Father but through Him.
I see that He is the administrator of the New Covenant, and He very clearly said that He had not come to destroy the law, but that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away.
I see that the just will live by faith...and who are the just if they are not the ones who obey God?
I see that faith without works is dead...that is that it is not living faith.
I see that a schoolmaster is a teacher...we are to learn from the law.
I see that grace is there to forgive us for sin...what is it that makes "sin" so "sinful" if it is not that God has forbidden it.

And now I see that my brother is actually saying that grace does not give him a license to sin.
I wonder if we are not saying more or less the same thing? We're looking at the same elephant...but like those blind men, we are only seeing the part closest to us.

If the Sabbath were still perceived as being Sunday, I doubt we'd be arguing at all.

I see this whole debate as one more tool of Satan's to divide the people of God.
He is very, very good at that...33,000 denominations, and counting. All of them very sure that they have it "right"...and everyone else is "wrong"...

I see Jesus came to fulfill the law, the prophets and the Psalms. He claims He did. do you have proof He didn't? If not the law (covenant) is finished.

 

[from scratch]

What I do not see is that it is a choice between law and faith.
Rather, it is a choice between justice and mercy.
I choose mercy.

I hope we all do!

Please make me a believer.

 

[Angelquill]

Jesus does not say that He came to fulfill all of the law, or all of the prophets, or all of the psalms...He says that He fulfills them as they pertain to Him. Doesn't your Bible have the same verses mine has?
Haven't we covered that already?

 

[claudiathompson]

And the children of Israel ate manna forty years, until they came to an inhabited land; they ate manna until they came to the border of the land of Canaan. Exodus 16:35.
Every week during their long sojourn in the wilderness the Israelites witnessed a threefold miracle, designed to impress their minds with the sacredness of the Sabbath: a double quantity of manna fell on the sixth day, none on the seventh, and the portion needed for the Sabbath was preserved sweet and pure, when if any were kept over at any other time it became unfit for use.
In the circumstances connected with the giving of the manna, we have conclusive evidence that the Sabbath was not instituted, as many claim, when the law was given at Sinai. Before the Israelites came to Sinai they understood the Sabbath to be obligatory upon them. In being obliged to gather every Friday a double portion of manna in preparation for the Sabbath, when none would fall, the sacred nature of the day of rest was continually impressed upon them. And when some of the people went out on the Sabbath to gather manna, the Lord asked, “How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?”
“The children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.” For forty years they were daily reminded by this miraculous provision, of God’s unfailing care and tender love. In the words of the psalmist, God gave them “of the corn of heaven. Man did eat angels’ food” (Psalm 78:24, 25)—that is, food provided for them by the angels. Sustained by “the corn of heaven,” they were daily taught that, having God’s promise, they were as secure from want as if surrounded by fields of waving grain on the fertile plains of Canaan.—Patriarchs and Prophets, 296, 297.

 

[Angelquill]

It seems fairly obvious to me that God has not repealed the laws that are the very foundation of our faith.
I do not understand how anyone could even think such a thing.

 

[Ubuntu]

I don't see any reference to worship in this verse at all, in fact one could consider the part in red which one could easily equate that people don't "live" in churches and synagogs but in homes so in those places would you really be keeping a Sabbath according to the command? If you read about the first instance of Sabbath it was about the mana and it equated people gather twice as much the day before and stay in their tents on the Sabbath. No mention of gathering together whatsoever.

You're not the only one arguing in this way, so I'm just pointing out that I've answered this elsewhere for those who are interested: http://www.christianforums.com/t7826980-5/#post66331072

 

[Ubuntu]

Hi there, from scratch!

I also disagree with you because what you call fact isn't found in the Bible. There's absolutely no evidence that anyone observed the 7th day Sabbath prior to the departure from Egypt. The word Sabbath doesn't even occur in Genesis. God didn't bless the Sabbath on the 7th day of creation.

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

It's true that the word “Sabbath” doesn't occur, but the word “Sabbath” can be translated as “rest” and it's root is the “rest”, “cease” that we find in Genesis 2 when God ceases the work of Creation.
The connection between these words are so close that this word in at least a couple of places are translated as “Sabbaths” and “kept Sabbath”. See 2 Chronicles 36:21 (about the Sabbatical years)
“...until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.” - KJV

John 1:17 says -

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. The Sabbath is part of the law.

Yes, the Sabbath commandment was repeated at Sinai and is a part of the Mosaic law, of this we agree. But the Bible speaks of a set of laws in existence before long before Moses was born, of which the Sabbath undoubtedly was a part:
In Genesis the Lord appeared to Isaac and said that “Abraham obeyed me and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." - Genesis 26:5 The difference between these pre-mosaic laws and the mosaic laws, is that the latter were transmitted orally while the mosaic law was written down.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


and -

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

These 2 passages make it very plain the Sabbath was given exclusively to Israel. More has been posted here to show that it only pertains to those who possess the land. Such would automatically exclude everyone else.They knew what circumcision was as well. They had to be circumcised prior to eating the Passover lamb in Egypt.

Sabbatarians argues that the Sabbath still is a “sign”, and we believe that the true spiritual Israel still exists:

“It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel, nor are all the children Abraham's true descendants; rather "through Isaac will your descendants be counted." This means it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God; rather, the children of promise are counted as descendants.” Romans 9:6-7

“God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew! […] Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among them and participated in the richness of the olive root, do not boast over the branches. But if you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.” Romans 11:2, 17-18

Thus, as true Children of Israel, Christians are still to keep the Sabbath as a sign.

They knew what circumcision was as well. They had to be circumcised prior to eating the Passover lamb in Egypt.

Exactly, that was my point!

 

[Ubuntu]

Thanks to all that have participated in this thread!

Cribstyl, I see that you've made a couple of post where you answered me, and I'll try to answer you when I get around to it.

May God bless you all!

 

[listed]

Jesus does not say that He came to fulfill all of the law, or all of the prophets, or all of the psalms...He says that He fulfills them as they pertain to Him. Doesn't your Bible have the same verses mine has?
Haven't we covered that already?

If Jesus did not fulfill all the law, the prophets and the Psalms either Jesus or Luke is lying. Take your pick it really doesn't matter because the net effect is the same.

 

[listed]

Jesus does not say that He came to fulfill all of the law, or all of the prophets, or all of the psalms...He says that He fulfills them as they pertain to Him. Doesn't your Bible have the same verses mine has?
Haven't we covered that already?

Do not dismiss it, refute it.

 

[listed]

It seems fairly obvious to me that God has not repealed the laws that are the very foundation of our faith.
I do not understand how anyone could even think such a thing.

Read the prophets and the Gospels.

 

[listed]

You're not the only one arguing in this way, so I'm just pointing out that I've answered this elsewhere for those who are interested: http://www.christianforums.com/t7826980-5/#post66331072

Maybe you should read the chapter. Each man did not gather for the city. Tents here clearly means private dwelling.

 

[listed]

Hi there, from scratch!



Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

It's true that the word “Sabbath” doesn't occur, but the word “Sabbath” can be translated as “rest” and it's root is the “rest”, “cease” that we find in Genesis 2 when God ceases the work of Creation.
The connection between these words are so close that this word in at least a couple of places are translated as “Sabbaths” and “kept Sabbath”. See 2 Chronicles 36:21 (about the Sabbatical years)
“...until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.” - KJV


Yes, the Sabbath commandment was repeated at Sinai and is a part of the Mosaic law, of this we agree. But the Bible speaks of a set of laws in existence before long before Moses was born, of which the Sabbath undoubtedly was a part:
In Genesis the Lord appeared to Isaac and said that “Abraham obeyed me and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." - Genesis 26:5 The difference between these pre-mosaic laws and the mosaic laws, is that the latter were transmitted orally while the mosaic law was written down.



Sabbatarians argues that the Sabbath still is a “sign”, and we believe that the true spiritual Israel still exists:

“It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel, nor are all the children Abraham's true descendants; rather "through Isaac will your descendants be counted." This means it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God; rather, the children of promise are counted as descendants.” Romans 9:6-7

“God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew! […] Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among them and participated in the richness of the olive root, do not boast over the branches. But if you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.” Romans 11:2, 17-18

Thus, as true Children of Israel, Christians are still to keep the Sabbath as a sign.



Exactly, that was my point!

You offer nothing about the actual contents of Genesis 2. You are trying to changed the clear meaning with reasoning making the Bible a lie.

 

[listed]

Hi there, from scratch!



Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

It's true that the word “Sabbath” doesn't occur, but the word “Sabbath” can be translated as “rest” and it's root is the “rest”, “cease” that we find in Genesis 2 when God ceases the work of Creation.
The connection between these words are so close that this word in at least a couple of places are translated as “Sabbaths” and “kept Sabbath”. See 2 Chronicles 36:21 (about the Sabbatical years)
“...until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.” - KJV


Yes, the Sabbath commandment was repeated at Sinai and is a part of the Mosaic law, of this we agree. But the Bible speaks of a set of laws in existence before long before Moses was born, of which the Sabbath undoubtedly was a part:
In Genesis the Lord appeared to Isaac and said that “Abraham obeyed me and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." - Genesis 26:5 The difference between these pre-mosaic laws and the mosaic laws, is that the latter were transmitted orally while the mosaic law was written down.



Sabbatarians argues that the Sabbath still is a “sign”, and we believe that the true spiritual Israel still exists:

“It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel, nor are all the children Abraham's true descendants; rather "through Isaac will your descendants be counted." This means it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God; rather, the children of promise are counted as descendants.” Romans 9:6-7

“God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew! […] Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among them and participated in the richness of the olive root, do not boast over the branches. But if you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.” Romans 11:2, 17-18

Thus, as true Children of Israel, Christians are still to keep the Sabbath as a sign.



Exactly, that was my point!

You make hard facts from nothing called silence. Moses says no to your conjecture and unfounded opinion in Deut 5.

 

[Angelquill]

These verses don't sound as if Jesus intended to do away with the law:
Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And why is He teaching the law here?:
Mat_7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

And again here?:
Mat_23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

This doesn't sound a whole lot as if Jesus expected the law to be done away:
Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

And here He explains that He has fulfilled those things that were foretold about Himself...which is quite a different thing than claiming, as some do, that He fulfilled it all, and therefore we don't need it any more.
Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

And here we have good old Paul, everyone's favorite apostle, teaching exactly what Jesus had said:
Act_28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

I don't see how you could miss any of this.

 

[from scratch]

These verses don't sound as if Jesus intended to do away with the law:
Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And why is He teaching the law here?:
Mat_7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

And again here?:
Mat_23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

This doesn't sound a whole lot as if Jesus expected the law to be done away:
Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

And here He explains that He has fulfilled those things that were foretold about Himself...which is quite a different thing than claiming, as some do, that He fulfilled it all, and therefore we don't need it any more.
Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

And here we have good old Paul, everyone's favorite apostle, teaching exactly what Jesus had said:
Act_28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

I don't see how you could miss any of this.

I don't see how yanyone can miss John 1:17 or Acts 15. Its very obvious there is an agenda ignoring anything that doesn't fit.

 

[Angelquill]

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh 1:19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
Joh 1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

See, this is why you have to read the entire passage. Here, John the Baptist is introducing Jesus. That is all that is happening. The passage you mentioned is just a part of that introduction.

It's as if someone were introducing Mozart.
"And here is Mozart. He composes great music."