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Why I dislike Calvinism

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by rockytopva, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The ones that fall away never were regenerated. Once we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit we are on our way to heaven. Although the sanctification process may not be an easy one for everybody. Salvation cannot be lost.

    If salvation could be lost one day gained back another day and lost yet another day one had better be careful when they die -- that's ridiculous.
    M-Bob
     
  2. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Not exactly.

    R.C. Sproul provides the definition and distinction:

    "The Bible teaches the total depravity of the human race. Total depravity means radical corruption. We must be careful to note the difference between total depravity and "utter" depravity. To be utterly depraved is to be as wicked as one could possibly be. Hitler was extremely depraved, but he could have been worse than he was."

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  3. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Eternal life is not eternal life if it can be gained in the morning, lost by lunchtime, and regained by supper.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  4. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    And since when did the word "world" mean the entire "world"?

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  5. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Again, since when does the word "world" mean the entire "world"?

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  6. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    I haven't seen anybody here argue to the contrary.

    I'd be careful slinging that word "arrogance" around friend.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  7. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    How about Mk. 10:14?

    "For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

    Contrary to other scriptures, here it says He gave His life as a ransom for many.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  8. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    kosmos can also mean "universe".

    "Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
    1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

    2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3

    3. the world, the universe

    4. the circle of the earth, the earth

    5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family

    6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ

    7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
      1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
      • any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
        1. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
    "

    Source

    I want to know why, you quote the Greek definition, yet use OT scripture?

    You do know the Hebrew word only means world in one place?

    "erets: earth, land
    Original Word: אָ֫רֶץ
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: erets
    Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-rets)
    Short Definition: land"

    Strongs number:776

    Perhaps its:

    "adamah: ground, land
    Original Word: אֲדָמָה
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: adamah
    Phonetic Spelling: (ad-aw-maw')
    Short Definition: land"

    Strongs Number: 127

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  9. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    And has He done that?

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  10. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    And who were "under the Law"?

    Jews or Gentiles?

    Fact is, the "Law" i.e.: the Torah, was never given to the Gentiles.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  11. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Tell me something, Jesus died in Ad 33 (round abouts).

    That native living on Samoa that died after the death of Christ, did Christ die for him too?

    Fact is, the Christian religion didn't come to the Pacific Islands until some 1500 years afterwards.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  12. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Say what you want, but you have not accounted for Acts 13:48.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  13. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    The only way the Calvinist can get around the fact that perseverance isn't guaranteed in Scripture. Jesus plainly said they believed, yet your view refutes what Jesus said.

    To be regenerated means one has believed. They go together, but Calvinism must twist Scripture around to support there unbiblical view.

    Guess WHEN that happens?

    Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

    There it is. WHEN you believed, you were:
    1. included in Christ. This is union with Christ.
    2. marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

    Correct.

    Seems you misunderstand what Jesus meant by "falling away". In Luke 8:13 the "falling away" relates to "believing for a while".

    iow, they fell away from their faith. Not their salvation.

    Once faith, always saved.
    Once sealed, always saved.
    Once a recipient of eternal life, always saved.
     
  14. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    When it's NOT further defined in context to mean less than everyone in the world.

    That's when.
     
  15. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Look up the word for "many". It means the masses.

    btw, if you want to force "many" to mean more than a few, then you've got to reconcile that idea with Matt 7 -
    13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
    14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    These verses teach that many will go to hell, while only a few will get to heaven.

    Yet, Jesus gave His life for the masses.
     
  16. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Where do you find God being the one doing the tasso-ing? You don't. In fact, the word is never translated as "appointed" or "ordained" in any of the other 7 uses in the NT. The word means "to arrange" or "set in order".

    Further, the voice can be either middle or passive voice. The only way to determine is from context. And we have context to show that the voice is MIDDLE; The Gentiles arranged themselves.

    Acts 13:44 - On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.

    So, Acts 13:48 doesn't say or mean what Calvinists want it to mean.
     
  17. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    When I said that it was in response to tulipbee saying the world was her own little world and it wasn't mine. That is arrogance, to think that Jesus died for only tulipbee's own little world.
    Of all the various definitions you gave none of them say the world is the "gentiles". Not even Romans 11:2
    God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
     
  18. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    I actually had more Scriptures lined up and then I accidentally bumped the "post reply" button, and when I was going to edit, I got a phone call and got busy with other things and forgot to edit/add to the post.

    Yes, that is what He does.

    Well Galatians 4:4 says He came to redeem them that were under the law.
    It doesn't say Gentiles or elect. According to that verse only Jews can get saved.
    So when we see He died for many there is no contradiction with saying He died for everybody in the world.
    If I buy everything in a store and now a possess 1000 widgets, would these 2 statements be the same?
    I bought many widgets from that store.
    I bought all the widgets in that store.
    Either way I have 1000 widgets, which is many widgets which is all that were in the store.

    Yes, just because I can't understand how God could get the Gospel to him doesn't mean God didn't die for him.
     
  19. MDC

    MDC Member

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    You deny unconditional election in salvation do you not?
     
  20. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    What I deny is that God's election is about salvation. No one is elected to salvation, and there AREN'T any verses that say that.

    But be my guest and provide any verse that you believe says salvation is by election.

    I agree that election is unconditional. iow, God elects EVERY believer for service, without regard to ANY conditions whatsoever.

    I invite you to review the OP of The purpose of Election and try to refute any of the examples or points that I've made.
     
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