Why I can't worship God

[dinokid]

As the title says, I can't worship God (the Christian God) and I'm actually an atheist, meaning I don't believe that any kind of god exists. Now, I'd like to talk about what made me get to the point that I am. I have no intentions of creating a debate over here, this is a real struggle I'm facing at the moment and I'd like to get some peace over this topic.

So, what made me question God's existance even while I was going to a school that teached their students about the Bible every single day? I happened to hold the strong belief that men and women were equal, the same and deserved to be respected. It's not something as simple as you might be thinking. You may think that you understand and agree with me, but believe me, you probably don't.

When I say that I had the strong belief that men and women were the same, I literary mean that (not in the obviously biological sense though, but even then, I still believe both sexes are very similar). I thought not only that men and women should be treated with respect, but I also was pretty damn sure a guy could wear a dress and a female could date someone of the same sex. Also, I thought that marriage wasn't something that anyone had to do nor that the woman had to be the best parent.

How I got this belief? I have no idea. I assume I learned that from a cartoon I watched as a kid that showed that "women's things" and "men's things" were a myth. That, of course, boys preffer to play with cars while girls preffer the dolls, but if a boy wanted to play with dolls and a girl preffered cars, then there was nothing to worry about! They could do whatever they wanted.

As a result, my behavior showed how much I actually believed in that. I played with dinosaurs even with my "friends" and schoolmates told me this was a boyish thing. I didn't care about how beautiful I was and wasn't so interested in wearing makeup. When I looked at the boys that played with me (or not) I literary thought their behavior was completelly socially imposed and that they were just like me, but learned to act as if they were different for some reason. I didn't believe gender was a thing and the sex of a body was just a small detail of who the person really was inside.

I'm not sure about how you approach this topic, but at the schools I've been into it was normal to be an homophobe. It was so common that I can recall hearing many teachers saying things like "gays will go to hell", "there was this trans person that was possessed by a demon thanks to his sins", "it's wrong to be a lesbian" and many things like that. The explanation given to me was that God made the man and the woman so they could marry, be together and have children. Being naive, I decided that I wouldn't worship God anymore and would rather go to hell with the gays than to accept such cruelty. (calm down, I'm not done yet! I'm not trying to attack anyone, this was my mindset at my childhood)

Of course, there were other things that bothered me a lot, like... I couldn't really understand why God would want to kill children even if they were too young to sin and they might have even be sent to hell if they were unable to learn about the Bible. Sometimes I'd feel bothered over the fact that people going through such a terrible struggle deserved eternal suffering if they decided to give up their lives. In the end, what bothered me the most was the gender part and it got way worse once I ended up by falling in love with someone of the same sex since the homophobic statements started to feel more personal instead of just something that sounded wrong to me.

In a way, I had to give up on my faith to keep myself sane since I couldn't agree with God's morality and I was pretty damn sure I was going to hell. The problem is that I've been starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong about making that choice. What made me wonder if maybe I should become Christian again was the fact that I can actually show signs that I believe in God sometimes, like, for example: I already got into debates over religion that made me really question if I was wrong once they made me question my lack of faith.

Of course, I never really managed to convert to any religion again, but sometimes I wonder and... Well, going back to the gender stuff, I started to notice that even science and non-religious people happen to not support gender equality like I expected. I mean, some of the most sexist comments I heard came from my dad and he happens to be atheist too.

I couldn't help but wonder... What if my lack of faith is useless? What if God exists? There wouldn't be much difference to me since I'd still be less important than men in the world, nothing more than a castrated man, and bad things would still happen to people that don't deserve it because God wanted things to be this way for some reason we can't figure out.

Again, this isn't an attack on christianity. I'm literary struggling with it so much I'm even going to therapy for it and I was completelly open about what's been bothering me right now with more details than I'm used to give. Is there any advice that could be given to me? I'd really like some help with this issue.

 

[Job3315]

As the title says, I can't worship God (the Christian God) and I'm actually an atheist, meaning I don't believe that any kind of god exists. Now, I'd like to talk about what made me get to the point that I am. I have no intentions of creating a debate over here, this is a real struggle I'm facing at the moment and I'd like to get some peace over this topic.

So, what made me question God's existance even while I was going to a school that teached their students about the Bible every single day? I happened to hold the strong belief that men and women were equal, the same and deserved to be respected. It's not something as simple as you might be thinking. You may think that you understand and agree with me, but believe me, you probably don't.

When I say that I had the strong belief that men and women were the same, I literary mean that (not in the obviously biological sense though, but even then, I still believe both sexes are very similar). I thought not only that men and women should be treated with respect, but I also was pretty damn sure a guy could wear a dress and a female could date someone of the same sex. Also, I thought that marriage wasn't something that anyone had to do nor that the woman had to be the best parent.

How I got this belief? I have no idea. I assume I learned that from a cartoon I watched as a kid that showed that "women's things" and "men's things" were a myth. That, of course, boys preffer to play with cars while girls preffer the dolls, but if a boy wanted to play with dolls and a girl preffered cars, then there was nothing to worry about! They could do whatever they wanted.

As a result, my behavior showed how much I actually believed in that. I played with dinosaurs even with my "friends" and schoolmates told me this was a boyish thing. I didn't care about how beautiful I was and wasn't so interested in wearing makeup. When I looked at the boys that played with me (or not) I literary thought their behavior was completelly socially imposed and that they were just like me, but learned to act as if they were different for some reason. I didn't believe gender was a thing and the sex of a body was just a small detail of who the person really was inside.

I'm not sure about how you approach this topic, but at the schools I've been into it was normal to be an homophobe. It was so common that I can recall hearing many teachers saying things like "gays will go to hell", "there was this trans person that was possessed by a demon thanks to his sins", "it's wrong to be a lesbian" and many things like that. The explanation given to me was that God made the man and the woman so they could marry, be together and have children. Being naive, I decided that I wouldn't worship God anymore and would rather go to hell with the gays than to accept such cruelty. (calm down, I'm not done yet! I'm not trying to attack anyone, this was my mindset at my childhood)

Of course, there were other things that bothered me a lot, like... I couldn't really understand why God would want to kill children even if they were too young to sin and they might have even be sent to hell if they were unable to learn about the Bible. Sometimes I'd feel bothered over the fact that people going through such a terrible struggle deserved eternal suffering if they decided to give up their lives. In the end, what bothered me the most was the gender part and it got way worse once I ended up by falling in love with someone of the same sex since the homophobic statements started to feel more personal instead of just something that sounded wrong to me.

In a way, I had to give up on my faith to keep myself sane since I couldn't agree with God's morality and I was pretty damn sure I was going to hell. The problem is that I've been starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong about making that choice. What made me wonder if maybe I should become Christian again was the fact that I can actually show signs that I believe in God sometimes, like, for example: I already got into debates over religion that made me really question if I was wrong once they made me question my lack of faith.

Of course, I never really managed to convert to any religion again, but sometimes I wonder and... Well, going back to the gender stuff, I started to notice that even science and non-religious people happen to not support gender equality like I expected. I mean, some of the most sexist comments I heard came from my dad and he happens to be atheist too.

I couldn't help but wonder... What if my lack of faith is useless? What if God exists? There wouldn't be much difference to me since I'd still be less important than men in the world, nothing more than a castrated man, and bad things would still happen to people that don't deserve it because God wanted things to be this way for some reason we can't figure out.

Again, this isn't an attack on christianity. I'm literary struggling with it so much I'm even going to therapy for it and I was completelly open about what's been bothering me right now with more details than I'm used to give. Is there any advice that could be given to me? I'd really like some help with this issue.

Just because you don't understand or haven't received God’s revelation doesn't mean God doesn't exist. If you truly go to Him and pray for His revelation, not a sign to then believe, I mean if you go to Him in private, and decide to surrender to Him, He will reveal Himself.

The world portraits a different God, the world will tell you how God is like based on their perspective and without knowing Him, just as you are doing. But based on my experience and communion with Him, He is not what you are describing.

When I came to Christ I needed to have communion with Him. Peoples perspectives and doctrines were dragging me everywhere. So, I just jumped in and started seeking Him in private and my perspective changed.

 

[dzheremi]

Hello dinokid. Welcome to the forums!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. It is interesting to read your perspective. I wouldn't worry too much about what you've written being seen as an attack on Christianity. Honest questions and struggles aren't attacks.

Regarding the specific issues you've brought up concerning the modern concepts of gender and equality, I'm not sure where the problem is. I see that you have had a lot of negative opinions associated with religion via your teachers and others, and certainly it makes sense to sour on religion as a result (in the same way that if you were to associate anything with bad feelings, you'd start to dislike or not want to be around that thing), but it is also true and good to remember that there are many other perspectives in the Christian world that would never allow anyone to say something like "so and so is going to hell" or whatever. I find that vile, and my church is as traditional and conservative (theologically; not politically or what have you) as they come.

It is absolutely outside of bounds and horrible that anyone should even pretend to usurp God's ultimate prerogative in judging people, and that's not just me saying that, that's been the stance of the faithful of the Church since forever. In my tradition (Egyptian Orthodox Christianity), we have a large group of saints and wise men and women known as the Desert Fathers and Mothers, who were saintly ascetics who lived lives of prayer and seclusion from the secular world in the Egyptian, Syrian, and Palestinian deserts from the third century AD forward. Their way of life attracted pilgrims who sought a similar spiritual freedom, and in time their sayings came to be known, passed down, and written into various collections, so that everyone can benefit from the advice they gave to those who visited them 1600+ years ago. Some of that advice includes the following, which I really think is good to meditate on when it comes to the subject of judgment and how to treat others:

One day Abba Isaac went to a monastery. He saw a brother committing a sin and he condemned him. When he returned to the desert, an angel of the Lord came and stood in front of the door of his cell, and said, ‘I will not let you enter.’ But he persisted saying, ‘What is the matter?’ and the angel replied, ‘God has sent me to ask you where you want to throw the guilty brother whom you have condemned.’ Immediately he repented and said, ‘I have sinned, forgive me.’ Then the angel said, ‘Get up, God has forgiven you. But from now on, be careful not to judge someone before God has done so.’

+++

So you see it is of ancient provenance to teach that, yes, sin is real and does affect people and the world, but it is not a proper response to go around condemning people. The refrain that we are all sinners is overused by people who have been caught in their own bad deeds to the point of seeming like a handy (and tattered) cover used by the self-righteous, so I will not resort to it here, but there is something to be said in this regard when thinking about your commitment to equality between men and women (which I support, by the way, and if properly understood -- i.e., not as a vehicle for modern political sentiments, but as a statement of Christ-centered, Orthodox anthropology -- is a very freeing thing): that we are equally made in the image of God, and that He was incarnate, lived, preached, was crucified, died, and rose again to defeat death and free us all from the bonds of sin so that we all may live. In my tradition, we pray the following prayer at the end of ever traditional hour of prayer (since we still keep to the traditional way of doing daily prayers at specific hours of the day):

Have mercy on us, O God, and have mercy on us, who, at all times and in every hour, in heaven and on earth, is worshiped and glorified, Christ our God, the good, the long suffering, the abundant in mercy, and the great in compassion, who loves the righteous and has mercy on the sinners of whom I am chief; who does not wish the death of the sinner but rather that he returns and lives, who calls all to salvation for the promise of the blessings to come.

+++

I have highlighted the last clause of the prayer because there was a sense in your post of fearing condemnation, which makes sense from where you're coming from, but which obscures the ultimate truth that God desires that all should return and live, and receive the blessings that are offered to us.

Anyway...just a few thoughts. It's way beyond my or anyone's pay grade to say what you should do in your own spiritual life (I don't think anyone was ever really successfully argued into belief...at least not in any way that sticks), but I just wanted to say I'm glad to read your words, and glad to see that you are still thinking about these things and still open to discussion, despite the current roadblocks that in your way. The Bible tells us "Come, let us reason together", and it is a sign of good caring for your soul that you have not neglected that, despite all of the people around you who apparently think they have everything figured out to the point where they can pronounce this or that about others. Lord have mercy!

Without suggesting your path to you, I want to close by sharing a video of a sermon given by the departed Patriarch of my Church, Pope Shenouda III, entitled "Come back to God" (it is in Arabic, because that's the everyday language of Egypt, but it has English subtitles; it also has some cello and piano music, because Egyptians are just like that I guess ...the words are the point, though). I share it not to bonk you over the head (metaphorically!) with instructions or pressure, but simply because it has helped me in many of my own "fork in the road" sorts of moments, when I wasn't sure what to do, and I like the message in it that true prayer is taking from God, because we don't always know what to do, and that's okay. It goes against the modern idea of the self-realized and independent person, I suppose, but when we are in situations like this where we are actually asking for some kind of guidance, it is better that we admit to being confused or unsure or however we might feel and take comfort and strength from God in prayer as we can, as that is another of the blessings that the Lord desires to give us.

 

[dzheremi]

p.s. - Regarding the stereotypes of boys and girls and all this stuff, I am a man and I love baking cookies, pie, and similar things (when we're not fasting, of course), and I challenge anyone who thinks they're a too 'manly' to enjoy that to actually try it first, and then decide! Nobody hates the guy who brings the dessert to the party, you know? Or if they do, they have to do so between bites, cos that stuff is always gone pretty quickly...

 

[SkyWriting]

As the title says, I can't worship God (the Christian God) and I'm actually an atheist, meaning I don't believe that any kind of god exists. Now, I'd like to talk about what made me get to the point that I am. I have no intentions of creating a debate over here, this is a real struggle I'm facing at the moment and I'd like to get some peace over this topic.

So, what made me question God's existance even while I was going to a school that teached their students about the Bible every single day? I happened to hold the strong belief that men and women were equal, the same and deserved to be respected. It's not something as simple as you might be thinking. You may think that you understand and agree with me, but believe me, you probably don't.

When I say that I had the strong belief that men and women were the same, I literary mean that (not in the obviously biological sense though, but even then, I still believe both sexes are very similar). I thought not only that men and women should be treated with respect, but I also was pretty damn sure a guy could wear a dress and a female could date someone of the same sex. Also, I thought that marriage wasn't something that anyone had to do nor that the woman had to be the best parent.

How I got this belief? I have no idea. I assume I learned that from a cartoon I watched as a kid that showed that "women's things" and "men's things" were a myth. That, of course, boys preffer to play with cars while girls preffer the dolls, but if a boy wanted to play with dolls and a girl preffered cars, then there was nothing to worry about! They could do whatever they wanted.

As a result, my behavior showed how much I actually believed in that. I played with dinosaurs even with my "friends" and schoolmates told me this was a boyish thing. I didn't care about how beautiful I was and wasn't so interested in wearing makeup. When I looked at the boys that played with me (or not) I literary thought their behavior was completelly socially imposed and that they were just like me, but learned to act as if they were different for some reason. I didn't believe gender was a thing and the sex of a body was just a small detail of who the person really was inside.

I'm not sure about how you approach this topic, but at the schools I've been into it was normal to be an homophobe. It was so common that I can recall hearing many teachers saying things like "gays will go to hell", "there was this trans person that was possessed by a demon thanks to his sins", "it's wrong to be a lesbian" and many things like that. The explanation given to me was that God made the man and the woman so they could marry, be together and have children. Being naive, I decided that I wouldn't worship God anymore and would rather go to hell with the gays than to accept such cruelty. (calm down, I'm not done yet! I'm not trying to attack anyone, this was my mindset at my childhood)

Of course, there were other things that bothered me a lot, like... I couldn't really understand why God would want to kill children even if they were too young to sin and they might have even be sent to hell if they were unable to learn about the Bible. Sometimes I'd feel bothered over the fact that people going through such a terrible struggle deserved eternal suffering if they decided to give up their lives. In the end, what bothered me the most was the gender part and it got way worse once I ended up by falling in love with someone of the same sex since the homophobic statements started to feel more personal instead of just something that sounded wrong to me.

In a way, I had to give up on my faith to keep myself sane since I couldn't agree with God's morality and I was pretty damn sure I was going to hell. The problem is that I've been starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong about making that choice. What made me wonder if maybe I should become Christian again was the fact that I can actually show signs that I believe in God sometimes, like, for example: I already got into debates over religion that made me really question if I was wrong once they made me question my lack of faith.

Of course, I never really managed to convert to any religion again, but sometimes I wonder and... Well, going back to the gender stuff, I started to notice that even science and non-religious people happen to not support gender equality like I expected. I mean, some of the most sexist comments I heard came from my dad and he happens to be atheist too.

I couldn't help but wonder... What if my lack of faith is useless? What if God exists? There wouldn't be much difference to me since I'd still be less important than men in the world, nothing more than a castrated man, and bad things would still happen to people that don't deserve it because God wanted things to be this way for some reason we can't figure out.

Again, this isn't an attack on christianity. I'm literary struggling with it so much I'm even going to therapy for it and I was completelly open about what's been bothering me right now with more details than I'm used to give. Is there any advice that could be given to me? I'd really like some help with this issue.

Which issue?

God does not concern "Himself" with your gender.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female,
for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Darkhorse]

Even if you're not sure if God exists, talk to Him. Carry on conversations when you can (they can be mental instead of verbal), and be honest. He already knows everything about you. See if He answers (again, His answers usually are not verbal...).

Don't let the "He" part bother you. God is bigger than male or female (He created both). On the other hand, you are not a "castrated male"; you are a woman, God's highest and most beautiful creation. Learn to value your sex; He does!

You will find many friends here, and some people who are kind of hard to take. But you are among friends.

 

[Bobber]

Again, this isn't an attack on christianity.

Yeah sure Bud! You're whole discourse is slanted to throw insults at the Christian community. You label believers homophobes leaving an impression that Christians have some paranoia weak and sickly mentality not capable of rational thought. You said you want advice? Stop sliding in subtle insults if there's an ounce of sincerity in any thing you say.

 

[Godistruth1]

I assume I learned that from a cartoon I watched as a kid that showed that "women's things" and "men's things" were a myth. That, of course, boys preffer to play with cars while girls preffer the dolls, but if a boy wanted to play with dolls and a girl preffered cars, then there was nothing to worry about! They could do whatever they wanted.

Are you seriously defining your belief from the influence of cartoons?
Its not wrong for them to play with the opposite toys they normally play but how many do it? 99.9% boys play with cars while 99.9% girls play with dolls. Its nature in children. Men and women are equal but they are not same. They are different physically , mentally and biologically.

I'm not sure about how you approach this topic, but at the schools I've been into it was normal to be an homophobe. It was so common that I can recall hearing many teachers saying things like "gays will go to hell", "there was this trans person that was possessed by a demon thanks to his sins", "it's wrong to be a lesbian" and many things like that. The explanation given to me was that God made the man and the woman so they could marry, be together and have children. Being naive, I decided that I wouldn't worship God anymore and would rather go to hell with the gays than to accept such cruelty. (calm down, I'm not done yet! I'm not trying to attack anyone, this was my mindset at my childhood)

Its natural for man and women to be mates not the same sex. Gays or lesbians isn't natural even if you look at it from an evolutionist perspective. You will never see these traits in animals. Since its promoted in such a way a person gets influenced by these ideas. Its not normal and is a psychological problem.

Of course, there were other things that bothered me a lot, like... I couldn't really understand why God would want to kill children even if they were too young to sin and they might have even be sent to hell if they were unable to learn about the Bible. Sometimes I'd feel bothered over the fact that people going through such a terrible struggle deserved eternal suffering if they decided to give up their lives. In the end, what bothered me the most was the gender part and it got way worse once I ended up by falling in love with someone of the same sex since the homophobic statements started to feel more personal instead of just something that sounded wrong to me.

God does not want to kill children. Its people killing children and attributing it to God. Having feelings for someone of same sex is just something that's been promoted and not natural. When these ideas come to mind they start to have an effect. Even in childhood we are attracted to opposite sex and some people who are lesbian or gay tend to stop being so if they were at some part of their life because its not natural.

Of course, I never really managed to convert to any religion again, but sometimes I wonder and... Well, going back to the gender stuff, I started to notice that even science and non-religious people happen to not support gender equality like I expected. I mean, some of the most sexist comments I heard came from my dad and he happens to be atheist too.

Yes, its some sick people who think men are better in some way. Practically men surely are better in some things and women are better in some things. They are equal in the eyes of God but they are different!

I couldn't help but wonder... What if my lack of faith is useless? What if God exists? There wouldn't be much difference to me since I'd still be less important than men in the world, nothing more than a castrated man, and bad things would still happen to people that don't deserve it because God wanted things to be this way for some reason we can't figure out.

There are good times and bad times. Its part of life. This life is a test for people to know who is good and thankful to God and people and who is bad and unthankful. That's why there is beginning and there is death.

. Is there any advice that could be given to me? I'd really like some help with this issue.

If you are sincere and know God exists then be sure he will guide you to truth. You just need to learn about God and what is the purpose of this world and us

 

[com7fy8]

Hi @dinokid God bless you I am Bill; welcome to Christian Forums. I offer that we have people here who are compassionate and can help you. But there can be ones, maybe me for all I know, who can be insensitive and just about judging and arguing. So, please consider that you can find ones who can be good for you, here . . . and where you are. Please do not be put off by ones who are indeed uncaring.

So, I will try >

When I looked at the boys that played with me (or not) I literary thought their behavior was completelly socially imposed and that they were just like me, but learned to act as if they were different for some reason.

Well, I am glad you are a girl. Girls can be very desirable, even though there are ways that people can put girls down. Still, this does not stop the girls from being superior to me, a guy!

I mean a girlie can be more sensitive and willing to communicate, like I need to be more. I am seventy years old, Dino Kid, and there are girls in my church who are very good examples of how to be pure and kind and caring in a family way. So, this could make them superior to me. And I can see why a guy might make it about what has nothing to do with superiority > which genitals you have on your body is not even your identity, really, I would say, never mind what makes you superior or not. I think if someone is a loving caring person, this makes him or her superior to a selfish person.

But people who want to control other people might try to make it seem like ladies are less than men. But this is an inferior thing to do. If I am loving, love is so better than any thing people use to compare humans, I am finding.

So, yes, you need how God proves Himself to you.

I didn't believe gender was a thing and the sex of a body was just a small detail of who the person really was inside.

I would say so. But I do understand that if we know how to love, we are not going to get worried about which genitals we have; in God's love we have creativity to use what we've got . . . and certainly not merely for pleasure. And so in case a man can not enjoy tender and sensitive and sharing affection with a lady, this is not a sexual preference issue, but a problem of not knowing how to love.

So, preference for how to get pleasure and what body parts one has can be decoy issues . . . away from finding out how to love.

The explanation given to me was that God made the man and the woman so they could marry, be together and have children. Being naive, I decided that I wouldn't worship God anymore and would rather go to hell with the gays than to accept such cruelty. (calm down, I'm not done yet! I'm not trying to attack anyone, this was my mindset at my childhood)

Like I offer > again > it is not only about getting a man to marry a woman so the created bodies can be a match. That is a physical issue. But, also > in God's love we can have the ability to be intimate in loving and caring affection so deeper than any sexual sensations and how we get them. And in God's love we can relate "without complaining and disputing" > see Philippians 2:13-16 so you can see where God is coming from, with this, please.

And yes, of course, in case you are thinking this > there are plenty of hetero couples who do not relate the way the Bible says for us to relate. Hetero people can be mainly about the pleasure they want, and using each other for what they want. But God's love does not have us only using anyone.

So I say and offer how preference and gender things are decoy issues which can keep our attention away from how we can love as family with God. Such issues can get ones isolated into groups who are mainly concerned about the issues and winning their cases, instead of first being with God and discovering how to love. And in the weakness of self-seeking stuff, ones are weak enough to keep on deeply suffering and being unstable. Only in God's love can we have almighty strength against cruel and nasty feelings and drives which waste us for pleasure and do not ever truly satisfy us. Without God's love, enough is never enough.

So, in the Bible we have things to help us with this, including >

"be content with such things as you have" (in Hebrews 13:5).

So, you might consider and discover how God's word is caring for you. And be careful about thinking up such bad possibilities when you read certain things.

I already got into debates over religion that made me really question if I was wrong once they made me question my lack of faith.

Ok, but that could have been intellectual stuff effecting you. Even correct arguments and information might be good, but only to an extent; plus, I suspect that certain people might be arguing with incorrect ideas for God, while other things can indeed be right.

We need how God proves His own self to us. And feed on His word, and discover people who are His good examples of how we can become and love. Yes, there are counterfeits, but does counterfeit money keep you from wanting and using money?

And this comes in His love and how His love effects our nature. The Bible says plenty which means how God in our character changes us to be able to love.

some of the most sexist comments I heard came from my dad and he happens to be atheist too.

And in case ones claiming to be Christians make sexist statements, it is possible they have more in common with your Dad, than they realize.

You might read and feed on how Jesus Himself related with women.

And notice how our Apostle Paul and Silvanus and Timothy compare themselves with how "a nursing mother cherishes her own children." (in 1 Thessalonians 2:4) These are three of our greatest Christian leaders. And I can see how these Christian men were taught by mothers how to love and care for God's children. Deeper than words, I would say, Dino Kid, these women's example fed Paul and Silvanus and Timothy how they needed to become as real men.

And this is how you can help a real man. There are men who do not know how to love. But one who is getting somewhere will appreciate how you are a good example to help him. He won't care about being superior, because he will appreciate how you help him to get real correction and get better!

With Jesus . . . with God . . . this is possible. But we need to have compassion and forgiveness-ready for ones who do not know how to love > they are missing out on so much. And with God we can help anyone do better > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7) < God desires for us to have hope for any person, at all; Jesus suffered and died on the cross with hope for any and all people

 

[PloverWing]

Welcome (back) to CF, dinokid!

There are lots of Christians who agree with you on the gender issues, who think that it's perfectly fine for men and women to reject gender stereotypes and follow whatever hobbies and occupations suit each particular individual. There's a forum here on CF called Egalitarian Christians (it's one of the Faith Groups), and you might find it useful to post some of your thoughts there.

Blessings to you in your journey, and in your questions. I look forward to many interesting conversations with you.

 

[1watchman]

Certainly one can choose to believe anything they wish, and not to allow the Creator-God in their life. At that the matter ends until one dies and is condemned by God forever in fire, as He has told us in His immutable Word ---no sin can enter into the presence of our HOLY God who is pure (a bit beyond our appreciation perhaps). Our Creator would not and did not leave His created people without knowledge of reality and His expectations. If one hates His Word, then one hates the Creator!
There is need here to make a wise choice and begin reading the Word of Truth (Holy Bible). As one has said: "take it or leave it". I recommend one begin reading in John 1; John 3; John 14 in the Bible, and humble self before our Creator while there is yet time.

 

[AservantofGodandthelordJC]

As the title says, I can't worship God (the Christian God) and I'm actually an atheist, meaning I don't believe that any kind of god exists. Now, I'd like to talk about what made me get to the point that I am. I have no intentions of creating a debate over here, this is a real struggle I'm facing at the moment and I'd like to get some peace over this topic.

So, what made me question God's existance even while I was going to a school that teached their students about the Bible every single day? I happened to hold the strong belief that men and women were equal, the same and deserved to be respected. It's not something as simple as you might be thinking. You may think that you understand and agree with me, but believe me, you probably don't.

When I say that I had the strong belief that men and women were the same, I literary mean that (not in the obviously biological sense though, but even then, I still believe both sexes are very similar). I thought not only that men and women should be treated with respect, but I also was pretty damn sure a guy could wear a dress and a female could date someone of the same sex. Also, I thought that marriage wasn't something that anyone had to do nor that the woman had to be the best parent.

How I got this belief? I have no idea. I assume I learned that from a cartoon I watched as a kid that showed that "women's things" and "men's things" were a myth. That, of course, boys preffer to play with cars while girls preffer the dolls, but if a boy wanted to play with dolls and a girl preffered cars, then there was nothing to worry about! They could do whatever they wanted.

As a result, my behavior showed how much I actually believed in that. I played with dinosaurs even with my "friends" and schoolmates told me this was a boyish thing. I didn't care about how beautiful I was and wasn't so interested in wearing makeup. When I looked at the boys that played with me (or not) I literary thought their behavior was completelly socially imposed and that they were just like me, but learned to act as if they were different for some reason. I didn't believe gender was a thing and the sex of a body was just a small detail of who the person really was inside.

I'm not sure about how you approach this topic, but at the schools I've been into it was normal to be an homophobe. It was so common that I can recall hearing many teachers saying things like "gays will go to hell", "there was this trans person that was possessed by a demon thanks to his sins", "it's wrong to be a lesbian" and many things like that. The explanation given to me was that God made the man and the woman so they could marry, be together and have children. Being naive, I decided that I wouldn't worship God anymore and would rather go to hell with the gays than to accept such cruelty. (calm down, I'm not done yet! I'm not trying to attack anyone, this was my mindset at my childhood)

Of course, there were other things that bothered me a lot, like... I couldn't really understand why God would want to kill children even if they were too young to sin and they might have even be sent to hell if they were unable to learn about the Bible. Sometimes I'd feel bothered over the fact that people going through such a terrible struggle deserved eternal suffering if they decided to give up their lives. In the end, what bothered me the most was the gender part and it got way worse once I ended up by falling in love with someone of the same sex since the homophobic statements started to feel more personal instead of just something that sounded wrong to me.

In a way, I had to give up on my faith to keep myself sane since I couldn't agree with God's morality and I was pretty damn sure I was going to hell. The problem is that I've been starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong about making that choice. What made me wonder if maybe I should become Christian again was the fact that I can actually show signs that I believe in God sometimes, like, for example: I already got into debates over religion that made me really question if I was wrong once they made me question my lack of faith.

Of course, I never really managed to convert to any religion again, but sometimes I wonder and... Well, going back to the gender stuff, I started to notice that even science and non-religious people happen to not support gender equality like I expected. I mean, some of the most sexist comments I heard came from my dad and he happens to be atheist too.

I couldn't help but wonder... What if my lack of faith is useless? What if God exists? There wouldn't be much difference to me since I'd still be less important than men in the world, nothing more than a castrated man, and bad things would still happen to people that don't deserve it because God wanted things to be this way for some reason we can't figure out.

Again, this isn't an attack on christianity. I'm literary struggling with it so much I'm even going to therapy for it and I was completelly open about what's been bothering me right now with more details than I'm used to give. Is there any advice that could be given to me? I'd really like some help with this issue.

God is real but it isn't as complicated as you think it is. As for the homophobia thing, sin is sin, one sin is not worse or better than another and since almost everyone is wrapped up in various sins, you have nothing more to worry about than they do. In fact not worrying could arguably be more destructive.

James 4:17

 

[1watchman]

As one has often said: "You can have as much of Christ as you want, and your life shows how much you want". We all need Jesus, the Christ of God in our hearts now and for eternity. I think that about covers the issues of knowing and trusting God ---would you say?

 

[Kaon]

As the title says, I can't worship God (the Christian God) and I'm actually an atheist, meaning I don't believe that any kind of god exists. Now, I'd like to talk about what made me get to the point that I am. I have no intentions of creating a debate over here, this is a real struggle I'm facing at the moment and I'd like to get some peace over this topic.

So, what made me question God's existance even while I was going to a school that teached their students about the Bible every single day? I happened to hold the strong belief that men and women were equal, the same and deserved to be respected. It's not something as simple as you might be thinking. You may think that you understand and agree with me, but believe me, you probably don't.

When I say that I had the strong belief that men and women were the same, I literary mean that (not in the obviously biological sense though, but even then, I still believe both sexes are very similar). I thought not only that men and women should be treated with respect, but I also was pretty damn sure a guy could wear a dress and a female could date someone of the same sex. Also, I thought that marriage wasn't something that anyone had to do nor that the woman had to be the best parent.

How I got this belief? I have no idea. I assume I learned that from a cartoon I watched as a kid that showed that "women's things" and "men's things" were a myth. That, of course, boys preffer to play with cars while girls preffer the dolls, but if a boy wanted to play with dolls and a girl preffered cars, then there was nothing to worry about! They could do whatever they wanted.

As a result, my behavior showed how much I actually believed in that. I played with dinosaurs even with my "friends" and schoolmates told me this was a boyish thing. I didn't care about how beautiful I was and wasn't so interested in wearing makeup. When I looked at the boys that played with me (or not) I literary thought their behavior was completelly socially imposed and that they were just like me, but learned to act as if they were different for some reason. I didn't believe gender was a thing and the sex of a body was just a small detail of who the person really was inside.

I'm not sure about how you approach this topic, but at the schools I've been into it was normal to be an homophobe. It was so common that I can recall hearing many teachers saying things like "gays will go to hell", "there was this trans person that was possessed by a demon thanks to his sins", "it's wrong to be a lesbian" and many things like that. The explanation given to me was that God made the man and the woman so they could marry, be together and have children. Being naive, I decided that I wouldn't worship God anymore and would rather go to hell with the gays than to accept such cruelty. (calm down, I'm not done yet! I'm not trying to attack anyone, this was my mindset at my childhood)

Of course, there were other things that bothered me a lot, like... I couldn't really understand why God would want to kill children even if they were too young to sin and they might have even be sent to hell if they were unable to learn about the Bible. Sometimes I'd feel bothered over the fact that people going through such a terrible struggle deserved eternal suffering if they decided to give up their lives. In the end, what bothered me the most was the gender part and it got way worse once I ended up by falling in love with someone of the same sex since the homophobic statements started to feel more personal instead of just something that sounded wrong to me.

In a way, I had to give up on my faith to keep myself sane since I couldn't agree with God's morality and I was pretty damn sure I was going to hell. The problem is that I've been starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong about making that choice. What made me wonder if maybe I should become Christian again was the fact that I can actually show signs that I believe in God sometimes, like, for example: I already got into debates over religion that made me really question if I was wrong once they made me question my lack of faith.

Of course, I never really managed to convert to any religion again, but sometimes I wonder and... Well, going back to the gender stuff, I started to notice that even science and non-religious people happen to not support gender equality like I expected. I mean, some of the most sexist comments I heard came from my dad and he happens to be atheist too.

I couldn't help but wonder... What if my lack of faith is useless? What if God exists? There wouldn't be much difference to me since I'd still be less important than men in the world, nothing more than a castrated man, and bad things would still happen to people that don't deserve it because God wanted things to be this way for some reason we can't figure out.

Again, this isn't an attack on christianity. I'm literary struggling with it so much I'm even going to therapy for it and I was completelly open about what's been bothering me right now with more details than I'm used to give. Is there any advice that could be given to me? I'd really like some help with this issue.

What do you want?

(I am not asking flippantly; I am asking genuinely.)

 

[JesusYeshuaisLord]

As the title says, I can't worship God (the Christian God) and I'm actually an atheist, meaning I don't believe that any kind of god exists.
Is there any advice that could be given to me? I'd really like some help with this issue.

Hi, Thanks for your story. I will try to give you an advice.

This is what I read once:

Romans 1: 16-19
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them."

That is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Why did I selected this? Because it says it has the power of God in it. If your worry is with knowing if God exist or not, I advise you start there, at the Gospel. Some people have recommended to start with the book of John and read the other books of the gospel after (Matthew, Mark and Luke). Read it all with an open heart. If there is Truth in it, you will find it. I pray that God powerfully reveals himself to you. In Jesus name. Amen.

Maybe you think you know it already but if this is bothering you so much that you are willing to try everything to finally settle the issue, do this and find Shalom (completeness, soundness, welfare, peace).

"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Blessings.

 

[aiki]

As the title says, I can't worship God (the Christian God) and I'm actually an atheist, meaning I don't believe that any kind of god exists.

Well, then, from where did everything come? Why is the universe here? Mainstream science tells us that the universe began to exist a finite time ago so you can't claim that the universe has just always existed. Why is there something rather than nothing? God seems the best, the most rational, answer to me.

So, what made me question God's existance even while I was going to a school that teached their students about the Bible every single day? I happened to hold the strong belief that men and women were equal, the same and deserved to be respected. It's not something as simple as you might be thinking. You may think that you understand and agree with me, but believe me, you probably don't.

When I say that I had the strong belief that men and women were the same, I literary mean that (not in the obviously biological sense though, but even then, I still believe both sexes are very similar). I thought not only that men and women should be treated with respect, but I also was pretty damn sure a guy could wear a dress and a female could date someone of the same sex. Also, I thought that marriage wasn't something that anyone had to do nor that the woman had to be the best parent.

God has made men and women equal in value but He has not made them equal in every other respect, too. You seem to understand this now to some degree. I could explain the many differences to you physically and psychologically between the sexes if you'd like.

People can do many things they shouldn't. Cross-dressing and homosexuality are good examples. Being able to do something that is wrong by no means justifies doing it, however.

I'm not sure about how you approach this topic, but at the schools I've been into it was normal to be an homophobe. It was so common that I can recall hearing many teachers saying things like "gays will go to hell", "there was this trans person that was possessed by a demon thanks to his sins", "it's wrong to be a lesbian" and many things like that.

Condemning homosexuality as the sin that it is doesn't make a person homophobic. A phobia is an irrational fear of something. Attaching "phobe" (which communicates the same thing as "phobia") to a word and then applying that word to a person is just a way of labeling them as irrational without having to prove it. Christians are generally concerned about sin and living holy lives before God. Does that make them sin-o-phobes? Are they gossipphobes, or liarphobes, or murderphobes? Of course not. There are good reasons why Christians condemn sin (homosexuality being only one). They certainly aren't motivated by irrational fear to think that some things are really morally wrong and some things are really morally right. Again, the term "homophobe" is just a labeling tactic used to escape dealing with a point of view one does not happen to like.

In the end, what bothered me the most was the gender part and it got way worse once I ended up by falling in love with someone of the same sex since the homophobic statements started to feel more personal instead of just something that sounded wrong to me.

In a way, I had to give up on my faith to keep myself sane since I couldn't agree with God's morality and I was pretty damn sure I was going to hell. The problem is that I've been starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong about making that choice. What made me wonder if maybe I should become Christian again was the fact that I can actually show signs that I believe in God sometimes, like, for example: I already got into debates over religion that made me really question if I was wrong once they made me question my lack of faith.

Of course, I never really managed to convert to any religion again, but sometimes I wonder and...

If the Bible is right (and I am convinced it is) then you and I were made for God's purposes, not our own. He made us to serve Him, not to serve ourselves. And the Bible says we only find real, eternal purpose, meaning, and fulfillment in living for our Maker. You can't do that when you've decided that you know better than He how you ought to live.

I couldn't help but wonder... What if my lack of faith is useless? What if God exists? There wouldn't be much difference to me since I'd still be less important than men in the world, nothing more than a castrated man, and bad things would still happen to people that don't deserve it because God wanted things to be this way for some reason we can't figure out.

You seem to think you're in a competition with men. This isn't how God views your situation. He made men and women to be complementary to each other. That is, He made them specifically to go together, not just physically but relationally as well. Your lesbian relationship is a contortion of God's design, a warped version of what He intends and it will bring you ultimately to eternal ruin.

If God gave humanity what it actually deserved, Hell would be bursting at the seams. In any case, bad things happened even to God when He came to earth in the Person of His Son, Jesus Christ. Being murdered by your enemies seems a pretty rotten deal to me. But, if life on earth was like this even for God, why should we be exempt from the bad stuff that touches every person eventually? Then, too, bad stuff is mostly the result of the sin of wicked humanity. There was none of the disease, cruelty, violence and death at the beginning that there was after Man sinned.

 

[Steven Wood]

As the title says, I can't worship God (the Christian God) and I'm actually an atheist, meaning I don't believe that any kind of god exists. Now, I'd like to talk about what made me get to the point that I am. I have no intentions of creating a debate over here, this is a real struggle I'm facing at the moment and I'd like to get some peace over this topic.

So, what made me question God's existance even while I was going to a school that teached their students about the Bible every single day? I happened to hold the strong belief that men and women were equal, the same and deserved to be respected. It's not something as simple as you might be thinking. You may think that you understand and agree with me, but believe me, you probably don't.

When I say that I had the strong belief that men and women were the same, I literary mean that (not in the obviously biological sense though, but even then, I still believe both sexes are very similar). I thought not only that men and women should be treated with respect, but I also was pretty damn sure a guy could wear a dress and a female could date someone of the same sex. Also, I thought that marriage wasn't something that anyone had to do nor that the woman had to be the best parent.

How I got this belief? I have no idea. I assume I learned that from a cartoon I watched as a kid that showed that "women's things" and "men's things" were a myth. That, of course, boys preffer to play with cars while girls preffer the dolls, but if a boy wanted to play with dolls and a girl preffered cars, then there was nothing to worry about! They could do whatever they wanted.

As a result, my behavior showed how much I actually believed in that. I played with dinosaurs even with my "friends" and schoolmates told me this was a boyish thing. I didn't care about how beautiful I was and wasn't so interested in wearing makeup. When I looked at the boys that played with me (or not) I literary thought their behavior was completelly socially imposed and that they were just like me, but learned to act as if they were different for some reason. I didn't believe gender was a thing and the sex of a body was just a small detail of who the person really was inside.

I'm not sure about how you approach this topic, but at the schools I've been into it was normal to be an homophobe. It was so common that I can recall hearing many teachers saying things like "gays will go to hell", "there was this trans person that was possessed by a demon thanks to his sins", "it's wrong to be a lesbian" and many things like that. The explanation given to me was that God made the man and the woman so they could marry, be together and have children. Being naive, I decided that I wouldn't worship God anymore and would rather go to hell with the gays than to accept such cruelty. (calm down, I'm not done yet! I'm not trying to attack anyone, this was my mindset at my childhood)

Of course, there were other things that bothered me a lot, like... I couldn't really understand why God would want to kill children even if they were too young to sin and they might have even be sent to hell if they were unable to learn about the Bible. Sometimes I'd feel bothered over the fact that people going through such a terrible struggle deserved eternal suffering if they decided to give up their lives. In the end, what bothered me the most was the gender part and it got way worse once I ended up by falling in love with someone of the same sex since the homophobic statements started to feel more personal instead of just something that sounded wrong to me.

In a way, I had to give up on my faith to keep myself sane since I couldn't agree with God's morality and I was pretty damn sure I was going to hell. The problem is that I've been starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong about making that choice. What made me wonder if maybe I should become Christian again was the fact that I can actually show signs that I believe in God sometimes, like, for example: I already got into debates over religion that made me really question if I was wrong once they made me question my lack of faith.

Of course, I never really managed to convert to any religion again, but sometimes I wonder and... Well, going back to the gender stuff, I started to notice that even science and non-religious people happen to not support gender equality like I expected. I mean, some of the most sexist comments I heard came from my dad and he happens to be atheist too.

I couldn't help but wonder... What if my lack of faith is useless? What if God exists? There wouldn't be much difference to me since I'd still be less important than men in the world, nothing more than a castrated man, and bad things would still happen to people that don't deserve it because God wanted things to be this way for some reason we can't figure out.

Again, this isn't an attack on christianity. I'm literary struggling with it so much I'm even going to therapy for it and I was completelly open about what's been bothering me right now with more details than I'm used to give. Is there any advice that could be given to me? I'd really like some help with this issue.

Ok lets try to attack these problems you've had one at a time for there are a few. Firstly though I do not mean attack in a harsh way, I mean it as in respond to them. Also I've wrestled with the same problems for a while and hopefully revelations that I've been given may be helpful to you. To share a couple of important details about me before I start, even though I am a Christian in the purest sense I will be the first to tell you that 99.9% of the trash that nearly all Christians believe or are told is entirely that...trash. Second, what you hear, some things you read, and most firmly held beliefs about what the Bible says are lies, misgivings, and twisted man-made dogma that false leaders used many hundreds of years ago to control the masses and are not actually in the Bible. And lastly I will openly admit that as a man, raised in the old school ways, I am a total hypocrite when it comes to men and women. As in, I completely agree with the fact that women are equal to and can do almost everything a man can do, but I also believe in respect and chivalry towards women, that mothers raise children better than a father ever could because of the bond between mother and child that a father can never have. That man should work and provide for and protect his family while a woman stays home to raise the kids and teach them love, respect and compassion so they don't grow into useless, weenies that stand for and believe in nothing like this generation is now. Also I am very hypocritical when it comes to men being promiscuous but when staying pure and that I just cannot relate with or approve of homosexual men but I totally get lesbians and I don't think there should be anything wrong with that. Not to say that I even believe that my opinions are right. I don't agree with them but it doesn't change the way I feel. Ok, To let you in on a few errors that people make when they say something is in the bible but its not. Women are not only considered equal in the Bible, they are put at a much higher moral value then men and men are told to cherish our women. Next, Though God created man and woman to be together and be with only each other. Jesus defined that and actually said if man could accept the truth they wouldn't marry. It means no sexual conquests but staying pure. Next God murders in the same way a prison with the death penalty executes a murderer, as in he only wiped out the truly evil people and most of the time its because they sacrificed children to a false, nothing God. Jesus actually tells us if we harm one hair on a child's head we face hell. Next I've done quite a lot of study on this topic and I've come to the conclusion that not only does God give every single soul a second chance with irrefutable proof in him but the ones who still decide to not believe won't end up in an eternity of torture, but they are wiped out soul and all and no-one remembers them. Next and one of the most hot button topics (but I never shy away because people get mad) is that yes homosexuality is a sin but its not just because God decided to draw things out of a hat and make them bad. Not only does it go against nature itself but it spits in the face of God's first instruction to us and that was go forth and multiply. Homosexuals cannot reproduce. another reason it is a sin is because in the constant evil deeds of the fallen angels and their offspring. All of the evil, hurtful, sinful acts the practiced. every one of them always led back to homosexuality. Now does this mean I think they are evil and will burn? no. Do I think that is is one of a very few sins considered abominations and people that practice it will have to answer for it? yes I do. One very important thing to me is that I always struggled with the idea that it was wrong to love who you love. I Have actually prayed on this and a while back i had something explained to me and it made more sense than anything I've heard. Man is the one who makes everything about sex not God. God never once told us it was a sin to love the same sex, he said the act of sex itself was a sin. 3 things about that is 1. Jesus truly deeply loved not only everyone, he loved the apostle John deeply and there was nothing sexual to do with it. 2. Love has nothing really to do with sex and you can ask anyone that has been married for many years about that. And 3. I truly believe that when the Bible says that Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss It was hinting toward a physical, homosexual desire that Judas developed because he was confused but that's for another time. It's funny and I say it as a joke but there's truth behind it. I've always said if it wasn't for the sex I'd be gay, then it's just hanging out with your buddies. Our bodies are a sinful, selfish prison that we're are in for the moment and attraction is a physical, most times uncontrollable desire. Love comes from the spirit which is of God. Sex and love are 2 completely different things so loving the same sex and the physical act of homosexuality or 2 completely different things. I apologize for the length of this response and I pray it something little thing may help you

 

[TzephanYahu]

Shalom Dinokid,

I hear a lot of people who are concerned over gender equality in the Bible.

At first look, it can seem that it's simply "men rule and women serve" Atually I think it is a lot deeper than this.

Marriage is the mystery and focus point of the whole Bible. The church and Israel are a bride. All His love is lavished upon us, and Jesus died for us, of course.

The woman is not less than a man. On the contrary, she completes the man. Everything he does is for her and everything she does is for him. There is unison.

In terms of authority, yes it is the man. Just like Jesus is the authority of the church. But the whole focus of his love is for his bride, his wife (or woman).

Women are therefore not unequal with men, but is the very focus of why man even bothers at all. All his does is for her and his family. He serves her, if the balance is right, just as she serves him.

It is a privelege to be a man (in the image of God) and a privelege to be a woman (in the image of the one God loves).

Love & Shalom
TzephanYahu