Why hasn't Jesus come back yet?

ICONO'CLAST · Feb 17, 2020

God is longsuffering to us ward not willing that any of the elect perish.
When the last elect person is saved, it is the last day.

Maria Billingsley · Feb 17, 2020

mindlight said:
After 2000 years why are we still waiting for the return of the King of Kings?

It was a clear expectation of the early church that Jesus would return soon. Peter even made a special effort to debunk the intellectual pagans and false teachers of his time who suggested that this was a lie and that there would be no return. In 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter used, as the basis of his refutation of this false accusation, the experience of James, John and Peter of the Transfiguration on the Holy Mountain (where the Messiah is expected to return). Because they had seen the glorified Christ they knew that He would one day return in that same glory as the King of Kings. No one on this earth had a comparable majesty , so only Jesus could be the King we waited for. The martyrs went to their deaths in the various persecutions of the Roman empire under Nero, Domitian and later Trajan and Marcus Aurelius singing the praises of this King and in the expectation that their King, the Returning King Jesus, would soon hold corrupt demonically inspired authorities to account and that the Emperor would get his comeuppance. But 2000 years later we are still waiting. It is the strongest prophecy of the Christian church, it is the overwhelming expectation of the church, ensuring that we live lives in expectation of our final review by the returning King. It is written into our creeds.

"He will return in glory to judge the Living and the Dead and his Kingdom will have no end"

But where is he, what possible reason could there be for keeping his bride waiting so long?

He is growing His Kingdom. The Kingdom of God. Every second, a person is born into the Body of Christ . When love grows so cold and deception so thick, then I believe the Body will be completed as there will be no one left who cares to be saved or desire to have a relatioship with Jesus Christ Of Nazareth. . Remember Sodom and Ghmora and especially the days of Noah.
Blessings

Tra Phull · Feb 17, 2020

Lot of questions, huh?

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Copperhead said:
I guess the the best answer to that question is with another question: What is the condition that must be met for Yeshua to return?

Hosea 5:14-15 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

Matthew 23:37-39 (NKJV) "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!'"

So it was entire Jacob/Israel that caused Yeshua to return to His place due their rejection of Him. And it will take Israel being pushed to the wall and acknowledging that rejection, turning to Him, and calling for Him to come before He will.

None of which has anything to do with the Bride, or Church. Apostasy or not. That could be a symptom of the times, but it has nothing to do with His return.

And if we read immediately after the above in Hosea....

Hosea 6:1-2 (NKJV) 1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

Now it could be a stretch, but it also could be applicable the following:

Psalms 90:4 (NKJV) For a thousand years in Your sight
Are like yesterday when it is past,
And like a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8 (NKJV) But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Maybe the answer has been sitting right under our noses all along and we never saw it. If the above verses do apply to Hosea, then it would seem we are bouncing right up against the time frame.

One of the prophecies about Jesus return refers to a mass turning of the Jews to Christ. The growth of the Messianic Jewish church inside and outside of Israel has been great but is it enough yet?

I do accept that God has a perfect plan and perfect timing. But our Kings return would resolve a whole load of problems from war, poverty to climate change and the problem of righteousness and what to do with the wicked and the godless.

BNR32FAN · Feb 17, 2020

mindlight said:
After 2000 years why are we still waiting for the return of the King of Kings?

It was a clear expectation of the early church that Jesus would return soon. Peter even made a special effort to debunk the intellectual pagans and false teachers of his time who suggested that this was a lie and that there would be no return. In 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter used, as the basis of his refutation of this false accusation, the experience of James, John and Peter of the Transfiguration on the Holy Mountain (where the Messiah is expected to return). Because they had seen the glorified Christ they knew that He would one day return in that same glory as the King of Kings. No one on this earth had a comparable majesty , so only Jesus could be the King we waited for. The martyrs went to their deaths in the various persecutions of the Roman empire under Nero, Domitian and later Trajan and Marcus Aurelius singing the praises of this King and in the expectation that their King, the Returning King Jesus, would soon hold corrupt demonically inspired authorities to account and that the Emperor would get his comeuppance. But 2000 years later we are still waiting. It is the strongest prophecy of the Christian church, it is the overwhelming expectation of the church, ensuring that we live lives in expectation of our final review by the returning King. It is written into our creeds.

"He will return in glory to judge the Living and the Dead and his Kingdom will have no end"

But where is he, what possible reason could there be for keeping his bride waiting so long?

Jesus said that we are in the last days which was around 4,000 years after creation. So technically that could mean that we were past the halfway point. Jesus won’t return until the prophecies are fulfilled. Right now we’re somewhere around 6,000 + years after creation so it’s possible we could have close to another 2,000 years before His return.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Dave L said:
"Millions of Americans believe that Christ will not come again until Israel wipes out its competitors and there is widespread war in the Middle East. Some of these folks want to start a huge fire of war and death and destruction, so that Jesus comes quickly."

Millions of Evangelical Christians Want to Start World War III … to Speed Up the Second Coming - Global Research

It seems clear to me that God is emptying the Middle East of Christians and has been for more than a hundred years now. The poverty , oppression and falsity of Muslim countries and culture mean that taking the opportunity to get out is the obvious choice to make. If the Christians leave there like Sodom and Gomorrah there is no reason for God to refrain from judgment. But not sure "Christian" countries would have to be the agent of Gods wrath for this to happen. The Shias and Sunnis have their own plans to annihilate each other. So probably we should just sit back and let things work out according to Gods will

Kilk1 · Feb 17, 2020

mindlight said:
After 2000 years why are we still waiting for the return of the King of Kings?

It was a clear expectation of the early church that Jesus would return soon. Peter even made a special effort to debunk the intellectual pagans and false teachers of his time who suggested that this was a lie and that there would be no return. In 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter used, as the basis of his refutation of this false accusation, the experience of James, John and Peter of the Transfiguration on the Holy Mountain (where the Messiah is expected to return). Because they had seen the glorified Christ they knew that He would one day return in that same glory as the King of Kings. No one on this earth had a comparable majesty , so only Jesus could be the King we waited for. The martyrs went to their deaths in the various persecutions of the Roman empire under Nero, Domitian and later Trajan and Marcus Aurelius singing the praises of this King and in the expectation that their King, the Returning King Jesus, would soon hold corrupt demonically inspired authorities to account and that the Emperor would get his comeuppance. But 2000 years later we are still waiting. It is the strongest prophecy of the Christian church, it is the overwhelming expectation of the church, ensuring that we live lives in expectation of our final review by the returning King. It is written into our creeds.

"He will return in glory to judge the Living and the Dead and his Kingdom will have no end"

But where is he, what possible reason could there be for keeping his bride waiting so long?

Your reference to 2 Peter 1:16-21 says nothing about Jesus' return being soon. In fact, Peter says just the opposite later in the same epistle. Because the Lord's coming would not be immediate, Peter warns in 2 Peter 3:3-4 "that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, 'Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation'" (NKJV). Peter then explains--and this also answers your question--"that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (vv. 8-9).

For the Lord, 2,000 years is no different than two days, and giving people time to repent is worth the wait in His view.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Rebecca4Christ said:
Many are leaving the truth for false doctrines.This is has been happening for years,but it is increasing quite rapidly now. You just need eyes to see and ears to hear.
There is much churchianity,and much less true Christianity.Many of the once very popular "Teachers" have and are apostating in front of our eyes.Now teaching false doctrine,and straight up doctrine of demons in some cases.
Another verse came to mind as I was writing,but forgotten before I was finished....

As far as dire times....I don't find it dire,as we who are believers have and are being prepared.It all will unfold according to God's plan and purpose.BUT, it is wise to be ever watchful.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

We have always had heretics and indeed some of the most vibrant times in church history were characterised by passionate errors and conflicts. A general apostacy needs a lot more momentum than it currently has. It needs a sort of Stalinist government combined with a nihilistic liberal global culture to make it happen. Think we are still waiting on that one. INdia is oppressive freezing church bank accounts. Chinas imprisons pastors and the Muslims just murder them so there are bad places but overall the church has seen enormous growth the last century and Africa would be a real success story in that respect with gains far out weighing the recent losses in Europe and the Middle East. Also despite persecution the church is growing in China and in INdia

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

ewq1938 said:
Because it is not yet time for Him to return. Paul told us what things must happen before He will return:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

This is directly related to the Events of Revelation 11 and 13 ( the events of 13 are the beginning of the great trib and 11 is how it ends). This is when the falling away and the revealing of the man of sin will take place.

That kind of puts a downer on him coming back if things have to get desperate before it happens. Maybe a lot of people in the Western world especially have never really had it better with a level of freedom and prosperity that obscures just how much better the rule of the Messiah will be.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Copperhead said:
No, Greek scholars do not agree. A copy and paste from Strongs or whatever is only one man's idea of what the word means.

Many top level Greek scholars hold the position and details I posted. Dr. Kenneth Wuest, premier 20th century Greek scholar who was chair of NT Greek at Moody Bible Institute for several decades. Dr. Andy Woods, president of Shafer Theological Seminary. Dr. Ken Johnson, eminent scholar on ancient and early church manuscripts. All of whom have written extensively on the 2 Thessalonians 2 passage.

There have been many "falling aways" in history, yet the passage of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 has a definite article "the" that shows it is a unique event. And without a object in the verse to what is being departed from, there is no justification by any translator to show it is a departure from the Faith. Translated literally, it is simply "the departure".

And the entire context of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9 is our gathering unto the Lord. The Thessalonians had been duped that the Day of the Lord had already begun via a false letter (verse 2). Paul had to remind them that "that day" would not come until "the departure" happens first.

Pretty simple if one doesn't try to impose some preconceived idea on the text.

If you had done your due diligence in studying G0646 out, you would find it comes from the root G0575 "apo" which has as a meaning "departure" as in a physical, spatial departure or distancing.

Are you talking about a rapture. Cause it seems to me that scripture really talks in terms of the second coming and the being taken up into the clouds to be with Jesus in the same breath. Pre Trib seems like a nice way for the church to dodge its final test before the end and does not really fit the experience of the church through history, Post trib seems more real to scripture and history to me, Which also means that a rapture would not be a sign of the end , it would be the end.

lsume · Feb 17, 2020

Copperhead said:
But even following basic grammatical structure, a "falling away" does not fit the context of the passage.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 (NKJV) 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 (NKJV) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

The verses surrounding 2 Thessalonians 2:3 have a physical departure in view. It is a grammatical error to switch contexts by stating verse 3 has a spiritual departure in view.

It has a very Spiritual meaning.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Maria Billingsley said:
He is growing His Kingdom. The Kingdom of God. Every second, a person is born into the Body of Christ . When love grows so cold and deception so thick, then I believe the Body will be completed as there will be no one left who cares to be saved or desire to have a relatioship with Jesus Christ Of Nazareth. . Remember Sodom and Ghmora and especially the days of Noah.
Blessings

Makes you wonder what the number in Gods head is. How many = DDay.

Your words also made me think about the last days of paganism in the Roman Empire. Apparently the immorality of them all sleeping around meant that Gonorrea was widespread and alot of Roman couples were infected and infertile as a result. Christians preached being faithful to your wife or celibacy which meant that they had more healthy children than the pagans who started to die out. But in todays more comfortable Christian world in the rich West, very often Christians use contraception, have abortions or just do not want kids to interfere in their lifestyle. If that mentality was a feature of the global church I could envisage a cooling of love and passion for Jesus and a decline in the general influence and sense of hope surrounding a fertile church that characterised the years of its expansion.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Oseas said:
Final 7 years - THE LAST WEEK

The Beast of sea - Revelation 13:v.1-10
sea =-> peoples, and nations, and multitudes, and tongues - Rev. 17:v.15

Revelation 13:v.5-7 - the first period of 3.5 years - 1,260 days

5 And there was given unto him - unto the Beast of sea - a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. - 1.260 days

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Revelation 13:v.11-18 - the 2nd period of the last week - 1.260 days plus 30 days plus 45 days

Revelation 13:v.11-14 & 2Thessalonians 2

11 And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a Dragon. ---> a false lamb, a false messiah, AN IMPOSTER, an esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist messiah -the son of perdition-, a former Cherub.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first Beast -Beast of sea- before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; ... 2Thessalonians 2:v.9-10 & 4 -
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. ---> Abomination of Desolation

Daniel 12:v.11-12 & 10

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away - the daily sacrifice of JESUS for forgiveness and salvation of souls finished - , and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 1260 days plus 30 days

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 1.335 days
---- the day 1335 is the day of JESUS's return ----

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Right so one sure sign of the end is an evil global dictator who blasphemes God and has a hunt and destroy order on the church. Apparently this guy will even have magical powers and so should not be hard to miss. Definitely not happened yet.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

witness12 said:
My friend, he has come, and he is come.
Does the scripture not say the antichrist spirit is the spirit that does not confess Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh?

Christ came in the flesh and Before he ascended he commanded the disciples to tarry in Jerusalem. When they obeyed the Lord their God, a mighty rushing wind came in the upper room and they were filled with the Lord God’s Holy Spirit.

“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. *I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.* Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and *I in you.* He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest *myself* to him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sure he has come and we have seen his glory, as witnessed by the dream team disciples at the transfiguration

By His Spirit He is with us and we get glimpses of His glory and His majesty in the church.

But also he is coming and the Kings of the Earth will tremble before Him at that unmistakable day when he returns in Majestic glory.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Kaon said:
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

If you are from the Most High, you are already a walking/living temple. The vessel you call a body is a housing facility; when you die (and if you are Redeemed), you will actually live - going back to the Father, and leaving behind this entire created universe.

We have been given, by the Redeemer, the secrets to escaping hell - which is where we are (grave/separation from the Most High): don't be fooled by the blue sky and decent tasting "food". This plane of existence caters to evil, and we have the knowledge to not be bound by the rulers and principalities that "run" this plane of existence.

Well I guess we all have those moments as Christians when the presence of the Divine so saturates our lives and fills our souls with joy that we feel Him here with us and are content with where we are. Both so also there was a longing in the early church for Christs return. The disciples who spent time with him wehn he was here clearly missed him later and while they had a mission to perform longed for the day when they could be reunited with Christ. But there have also always been those who have desired to deny us that experience of God and to close the heavens in our faces. When Christ returns these people will no longer be a problem.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Douggg said:
Because Jesus has not returned yet. And because the rapture has not taken place yet.

But this generation will not pass without all of the end times prophecies being fulfilled.

This was the conviction of the early church that the return was immanent. But I guess there have been a lot of false dates since then, that came to nothing. God has his own timing.

Tra Phull · Feb 17, 2020

I don't know how "desperate" things will be.

In the days of Noah, people are going about their business as usual, then the flood came. Return of Jesus is supposed to be like that - where did the ideas come from of Gog and Magog comin' round the mountain, a revived Roman Empire, a one world government...

It's either like the days of Noah - or it's not.

And Jesus said it would be - He didn't say all this Gogging and Magogging stuff, New World order, Revived Roman Empire.
So people are trying to observe what cometh not with observation.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Peter J Barban said:
Jesus was waiting to see how the Star Wars movies finish up. Having seen the conclusion, he's debating whether to come back at all.

I confess I laughed at this and then kind of prayed that I did not offend God with that. But then I thought that the Second Coming will almost definitely outclass even epic battles like that over Coruscant.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

Randy777 said:
God parked Israel in Egypt 400 years until the sins of the nations living in the land God promised Abraham reached full measure. Than their judgment came. 2000 years or more is reasonable for the whole world then before the judgment will come. God is a loving, patient and just God.

Yes that is an interesting analogy that lends perspective.

mindlight · Feb 17, 2020

SteveIndy said:
There is one prophecy that signaled the last of the last days and is the return of Israel to its homeland. In 1948 Israel became a nation again and Jesus eluded to that as the last generation, "That generation will not pass away until all be fulfilled." I was born in 1948 and I am 72 years old; I am of that generation which shall not pass away till all be fulfilled. All the players are present, all the pieces are in place, and only a few prophecies need to be fulfilled. I believe the return of Jesus is very, very, close. Look-up for your redemption draws nigh. Even though the Church appears to be healthy it is in full-blown apostasy. Good has become evil and evil good. Very few separate themselves from the world and are in complete conformity to it. The Church's actions and appearance are just like the world. Its divorce rate is the same as the world, it engages in all the same filth as the world. Yes, the Church as a business is doing well but it is not the Church as defined by Christ as His body. The Church loves death and not life. Just recently a Church in Texas was praised for killing a man inside the Church who was attempting to kill others. Jesus was explicit in the Sermon on the Mount that we are to Resist not the evil person, turn the other cheek, pray for our enemies, and give them what they want. He told them how to live and exemplified that life with His own death, the death of His Apostles, and the deaths of very many saints for nearly 300 hundred years until the "Theologians" hijacked the Church, linked it to the state, advised its members to join the military, protect itself from offenders, purchase weapons for self-defense, and praise evil as good and good as evil. The true Church has never been big and loud, it has always been small as in "My little flock." The true Church has always been persecuted and despised, where do you see that today? Those who promote turning the other cheek and not resisting the evil person, who do not vote or get involved in government, those who will not condemn their enemies in courts of law but instead forgive them, those who do not purchase or carry guns for protection, and those who do not watch the filth and violence on TV are considered weird and out of touch, and if they point out the inconsistency of the commercial Church they are persecuted. The end is near and while the commercial Church is gathered together to fight against the returning Christ the "few" will be rescued by their Savior.

Pre 1973 there was definitely a sense of a Divine hand protecting Israel and fulfilling prophecy. An Ottoman backwater saw Orange groves blooming in the desert and a prosperity to the place lacking since the last days of the Byzantine Empire. But the majority of Jews still do not know God. The Palestinians also do not know God and pose a dilemma to the future of the state.

In history the Christianised Byzantine province of Palestine , the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem and now the Jewish state of Israel all had a claim on prophecy fulfilment but the first two came to nothing. Whose to say God does not have a future plan for a bunch of Messianic Jews to build a Christian Jewish state in Israel

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