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Why has Christianity failed in America?

timewerx

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The problem of American Christianity isn't that it's Christianity, it's that it's American.

That might ruffle some feathers. But it's been said that a religion that can't laugh at itself is a cult; and I'd add a nation that cannot criticize itself is in trouble.

-CryptoLutheran

The bigger part of the problem is that the church was complicit and even supported many of the evil things America did.

Ofc, they didn't see it as evil during their time. Centuries ago, it wasn't evil to rob the less sophisticated of their lands and identity through violence and deceit. It wasn't evil to enslave another race.

Organized Christianity today is complicit with consumerism and greed of money that is slowly destroying our world. They are proud of being part of the great evil we have in our world today and deceiving billions.

Religion is not necessarily the problem but when people "cherry pick" the Word of God and take it in completely the wrong context in completely the wrong direction that serves to do exactly the opposite of what it intends in the first place.
 
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okay

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I am sure there are many causes, and that all may not apply to every flavor of Christianity. But as others have written, our sins of racism, genocide and slavery started us off on a terrible path. we were never a great “Christian nation.” It is a myth that i think is propagated for political reasons. Today it is often used to rally voters.

Since I was raised evangelical it is easiest for me to see the problems in that branch. I could write pages. I grew up in the 1980s so I would start with the decades of that movement fighting culture wars and pursuing political power in order to force all americans (regardless of their religious beliefs) to adhere to a certain lifestyle. Because Jesus was all about seeking political power, right?

People are sick of this. When i recently told a newer coworker that I was a Christian his first words were “if you start telling me how I should live my life we are going to have a problem”. I suspect he was justified in doing so.


As Christians we know that our neighbors are loved by God and made in the image of God. We need to treat them accordingly. If we were known for caring for the least of these and loving and respecting our neighbors (including those that are Muslim / queer / immigrant / etc) instead of culture wars I suspect we would be in better shape.

Jason
 
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timewerx

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we were never a great “Christian nation.” It is a myth that i think is propagated for political reasons. Today it is often used to rally voters.

"Never" is the word!

Accumulation of lands, wealth, and power has always been the agenda. Still is today. But it goes against the teachings of Christ.

Even worse when the church is in full support. They want to gain influence by worldly means. Lusting to fight fire with fire, it never works!
 
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I can't stop thinking about the moral decline America has gone through since World War II, and how the church may be responsible at least in part for it. America was founded as a deeply religious country, and somehow we (the church) have allowed a pretty devout country (at least in its founding) over 250 years, to become perhaps the most degenerate society since the classical Greek and Roman cultures.

I do think that any country which experiences the sort of economic blessings and upward mobility that America has given people for the last 70 years is going to become decadent. In that, I don't think it's a uniquely American thing. We are the most prosperous country in the history of mankind when you consider the opportunities that people have had, both native born people and people who have come here, have experienced.

Perhaps Christians in America are not so bad in that any nation which experiences our kind of prosperity will naturally become materialistic and worldly, and will probably subvert evangelization and witnessing to others about Christ to more immediate economic concerns, opportunities, and increased avenues for pleasure, which our media system has certainly given us. Additionally, the fact that evangelicals in particular, who form a great percentage of the church as it is portrayed in American popular culture, always seem like they want to fit in and be "relatable" to unbelievers in their messaging (I'm talking about churches and ministries, not necessarily the people who attend those churches) in order to win them explains why those same religions are rejected by most people.

I also don't think people see enough light shining from us as a whole. If people want a religion, which very often they don't in America (for the very same reasons that Christians become lukewarm) they want one that clearly is producing fruit in the lives of those who adhere to it.

I don't think that the Christian faith does well in times of prosperity. In ancient days, Rome was corrupt, and the Christians brought salt and light into it, whereas the exact reverse has occurred in America in the last 70 years or so. This seems to correspond almost perfectly with the rise of America as a world superpower following World War I and the industrial revolution before that, notwithstanding the Great Depression. I know there was slavery before all of that and it's not like America was ever a Christian utopia, but it wasn't as degenerate as now. What is concerning is that AI can end up turning even more people away from God, as they can try to become their own digital gods.

One could argue that it was the industrial revolution and the increased opportunity for wealth and pleasure that compromised the church, especially after World War II, coupled with the vapid nature of modern evangelical religion and public indifference and mistrust towards traditional (in this case, Catholic) religion that explains why America is such a profoundly declining and irreligious nation.

It seems like unbelieving America has rejected evangelical Protestantism because it sees no fruit, because it is in love with sin and with the devil (there are so many opportunities in America to worship the devil and his fruits), there's not enough contrast between evangelical religion and the world, and Catholicism is not a viable alternative to many unchurched people because having a religion that is perceived as restrictive, formal, and rigid is the last thing they are wanting. I mean, if Protestant evangelical preaching was compelling at all, I think droves of people would sign up, because having a "personal" religion ("relationship") with God apart from any membership to a church is about as appealing a concept as an American would be willing to accept.

I would like to get opinions from those who have tracked with this post (sorry!) on whether the church's failure in America in the last 70 years is due to economics, spirituality, both, or factors I am not taking into account?

I personally believe that there's only two religions that have the power to stop the tide of evil in America currently. One is Eastern Orthodoxy and the other is Islam. My first reason for thinking that is the counties where these religions are practiced by the majority of people are not suffering the same problems as the U.S. I don't see the same culture in Romania, Iraq, Russia, the Baltic countries, or Saudi Arabia that I see in America. That has to say either that the religions are more reverent, which stems the tide of evil, or that those countries are simply better off morally because they haven't been exposed to so much wealth. Maybe both.

The second reason I believe that only Eastern Orthodoxy or Islam can stem the tide of evil in America is because I know firsthand that these religions are highly reverent towards God, whether or not you believe in their specific tenets. There is no question when you enter a mosque or a divine liturgy that there is a great sense of reverence towards God and the things of God, and that is precisely the thing that would be needed to change the spiritual landscape in America. Add to that that I think evangelical and Catholic religion are simply too familiar to most unbelievers. All of them know evangelicals and Catholics personally and not enough of them know that we are different enough from them to actually offer them anything they don't already have through their worship of wealth and opportunity.

Personally, I think unbelievers in America would need to be exposed to something totally different in order to change. One thing you can say about Eastern Orthodoxy and Islam is that the way they dress and the way they gesture and the way they live are things that can be tangibly observed, noticed, and appreciated, even if one doesn't agree. When you look at these groups, you can tell that their faith is something that actually impacts their day to day lives. Maybe that is the religion, even beyond Orthodoxy or Islam, that America needs.

That being said, I have no plans to convert to Islam, but I appreciate the sincerity of their faith and devotion. I am looking into Orthodoxy!
Daniel,
Some very good insights (in my opinion) about worldliness taking over. Yes, there is some quenching of our modern world’s thirst for something more genuine than the superficialities of a highly consumeristic society.
But I don’t think the superficial worldliness can be solely attributed to a drift away from religion. The problem (again, in my opinion) is a lack of spiritual DEPTH. Consumeristic cultures shape us to be what I call “surface-centric.” Aside from consumerism, American philosopher Ken Wilber talks about the nominalistic “flatland” that modern thought, with its overemphasis on objective reality, has created. He says every cultural era has its dignities and disasters. Lack of psychological and spiritual DEPTH seems to be one of the main (probably THE main) disasters of the modern era. And even though, according to Wilber, we have moved onto a post-modern era of searching for meaning via deconstructionism and the discovery of cultural relativism, the modern era still seems to be our default mind-shaping “program.” And it’s not like the postmodern era did a bang up job at filling the spiritual void either. Hippies shot in the dark and got lost in “The Winds of a Blizzard “ (a song I wrote about a relationship plagued by the unrootedness of that era, despite its desire to be deeper, less materialistic.
I agree with your premise that our modern (and postmodern) culture has failed to meet a human need, the need to be spiritual. But I attribute the deficit more to a lack of consistent psycho-spiritual DEPTH than to a lack of robust religion. The disaster of the “traditional “ era is its rigidity, that also results in a lack of social inclusion, a tribalistic us and them mindset, as opposed to the kind of inclusive spiritual/cultural movements started by Isaiah and again by Jesus, back in the Bible days. Even our own religion started out open-hearted (and, to some extent, open-minded), but got more rigid as time went on. And I attribute that rigidity to a clinging to the surface of religion (its dogmas and specific practices), as opposed to a deeper understanding and experiencing that we might call truly (deeply) “spiritual.”
Religion can serve the spiritual need, but it needs something much deeper than itself to really deliver the soul-satisfying “goods” that would allow us as a people to be less worldly.
The Snowmass Interreligious annual conferences started by Father Keating from the contemplative branch of the Catholic Church showed how deeply spiritual people from diverse religions were more like each other (in agreement) than those same faith representatives were to others in their respective religions.
Religion is secondary to true spirituality. I believe Christ’s “Way” was true/authentic/deep spirituality. As followers we have probably drifted towards the surface a bit too much to fulfill Jesus Christ’s loving intent/dream for humanity.
The reason I emphasize depth is that even the objective science of the modern era has discovered an amazing amount of convergence and non-individual interconnection/interaction in the deepest zones of physical reality. Unlike Wilber (who views psychological “depth” as only figurative), I think psychological depth involves a literal deepening process where we tap into quantum and sub quantum realities that we identify as “God”, at least when we are not putting God in a box.
Thanks Daniel for this “deep dive.”
Love,
Darrell
 
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timewerx

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Did you/do you remember the persecutions that happened because believers, true believers, spoke up about this serious problems, and were censured for it by those in positions of 'authority' in religious and in political and in scientific groups ? i.e. the 'elite' part of society did not tolerate the truth being spoken or taught, nor learned ... !

I've read about it.

They're bringing the wrath of people to them. Giving Christianity a terrible image. It will be the fault of these false Christians, the wolves in sheep's clothing if global persecution comes down to Christianity.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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The message that Christianity has adopted is fatally flawed

"Humanity deserves to die because a fallen angel got two people to eat from a tree and as a result was made a god"
I kind of agree with you on that point. Non-believers (that would be drawn to Christianity if it was properly presented to them) I feel want something more than "Jesus died for our sins so we could be with Him in Heaven. All you have to do is believe in Jesus and accept Him." Non-believers want something tangible, some truly hard evidence to back up a more enveloping story. Why did Jesus have to die for our sins? Because the first humans ate from a forbidden tree? Who said Adam and Eve were the first humans? What about all these skeletal remains of hominids being dug up all over the world? Why did God put the forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden in the first place? And so on.

A complete understanding and explanation needs to be presented to the non-believer with some proof of the story. Michael Heiser was trying to put that kind of story together but unfortunately he passed away recently (God bless his wonderful soul). The bad thing that grew from his work though was he still would not say anything good about the Catholic Church.

If you want people to follow Jesus Christ, we have to work toward a unified message for the world to see that we are one with each other and Our God.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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The message that Christianity has adopted is fatally flawed

"Humanity deserves to die because a fallen angel got two people to eat from a tree and as a result was made a god"
I have a different focus, "Humanity must experience the painful process of transformation in transcendence of the ego."
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I kind of agree with you on that point. Non-believers (that would be drawn to Christianity if it was properly presented to them) I feel want something more than "Jesus died for our sins so we could be with Him in Heaven. All you have to do is believe in Jesus and accept Him." Non-believers want something tangible, some truly hard evidence to back up a more enveloping story. Why did Jesus have to die for our sins? Because the first humans ate from a forbidden tree? Who said Adam and Eve were the first humans? What about all these skeletal remains of hominids being dug up all over the world? Why did God put the forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden in the first place? And so on.

A complete understanding and explanation needs to be presented to the non-believer with some proof of the story. Michael Heiser was trying to put that kind of story together but unfortunately he passed away recently (God bless his wonderful soul). The bad thing that grew from his work though was he still would not say anything good about the Catholic Church.

If you want people to follow Jesus Christ, we have to work toward a unified message for the world to see that we are one with each other and Our God.

Those are some good questions, but I don't tend to think that people in the U.S. want a unified message as much as they want a message of entitled assurance for their preferences and expectations, usually those specific to individual empowerment, gratification and/or self-actualization. And this goes for both those on the Left and the Right, politically.

An additional problem is, I think, that the Lord isn't in the business of minutely pandering to our political, social and moral preferences; He's not a Capitalist, a Conservative, a Liberal or a Libertarian. It seems to me He intends for the issue of His own Hiddenness to remain in effect until He sees fit to loosen up that relational state with humanity. I almost get the sense that He wants us to learn to grow up via the fragments of His truth which He's already given us in historical context. If, like St. Thomas, some of us just can't stomach that prospect, then I guess a lot of folks (many of whom are now "Ex-Christian") will continue to have a difficult time with coming to faith. They won't be getting what they'd like in a supernatural Christmas fashion any time soon.

... and this is where those who are still in the faith are given the opportunity to lend a helping hand to our friends and family who are having a difficult go of it.
 
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anetazo

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It's the priests fault.
Second, the parents fault.

Hosea chapter 4. The parents failed to teach their children Gods laws and provisions. We have children running wild on the streets. Instead of being Christian, we have heathen. Get the picture.

Hosea chapter 5. Main blame goes to priests and pastors. They allow heathen traditions and customs to infiltrate sound doctrine. They're teaching traditions of men and false doctrine.

Moses tells us in deuteronomy 31:29. In the latter times they will corrupt themselves. Some churches teach tradition of men and false doctrine.

Isaiah chapter 28. Pride of ephraim. The fading flower.

Christian nations are losing their blessing. Breaking God's covenant, leviticus chapter 26.

We see the decline within Christian nations. Revelation chapter 13. All nations in one world political system. Satan as antichrist will come near future. He will lead one world religious system, 5 month period.

Study the connection between revelation chapter 13 and Isaiah chapter 28.

Gods Elect, Zadok.
 
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Did you/do you remember the persecutions that happened because believers, true believers, spoke up about this serious problems, and were censured for it by those in positions of 'authority' in religious and in political and in scientific groups ? i.e. the 'elite' part of society did not tolerate the truth being spoken or taught, nor learned ... !
Aaron and Timewerx,
Again, I think we need to be careful to untangle true spirituality from religion
 
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The reason we need to untangle spirituality and religion is that a new, deeper, understanding and connection will emerge and become enfleshed if we don’t allow the various God-in-a-box “disasters” of the Traditional era to get in the way. Christianity is a viable vehicle for spiritual growth, as long as we admit that spirituality is the main thing/master. Religion (including Christianity) is the helper/servant. I’m not talking about faddish, quick fix, “spirituality”, but the true, deep, formations/manifestations of it.
Don’t give me that old time religion, unless I can hold it with a loose enough “grip” to allow it to have that truly spiritual “swing” (essence) to it.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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The reason we need to untangle spirituality and religion is that a new, deeper, understanding and connection will emerge and become enfleshed if we don’t allow the various God-in-a-box “disasters” of the Traditional era to get in the way. Christianity is a viable vehicle for spiritual growth, as long as we admit that spirituality is the main thing/master. Religion (including Christianity) is the helper/servant. I’m not talking about faddish, quick fix, “spirituality”, but the true, deep, formations/manifestations of it.
Don’t give me that old time religion, unless I can hold it with a loose enough “grip” to allow it to have that truly spiritual “swing” (essence) to it.
Say more. I like where you are going.
 
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Michael Snow

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STOTTmeme.jpg
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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The reason we need to untangle spirituality and religion is that a new, deeper, understanding and connection will emerge and become enfleshed if we don’t allow the various God-in-a-box “disasters” of the Traditional era to get in the way. Christianity is a viable vehicle for spiritual growth, as long as we admit that spirituality is the main thing/master. Religion (including Christianity) is the helper/servant. I’m not talking about faddish, quick fix, “spirituality”, but the true, deep, formations/manifestations of it.
Don’t give me that old time religion, unless I can hold it with a loose enough “grip” to allow it to have that truly spiritual “swing” (essence) to it.
What I get from this is that "spirituality" is a living dynamic core of who we are as human beings. It is essentially undefinable, mysterious and infinite as it connects us to God and each other. And yet we do have the ability to approach it with our rational minds as well as our super-rational spirits. We formulate concepts, teachings, images to help us make sense of our daily lives in the context of our faith. Faith being our provisional synthesis and integration of all that we know, are and currently believe.
 
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Glad we are leaning the same way. I’ll lean into contemplatively awhile, and (maybe) say more before too long.
Christ in,
Darrell
I think Jesus was trying to point us to our (each of us) Sonship, natural connection to Spirit/God, as a means of healing our lack of wholeness. A savior by means of teaching, showing, empowering. Inside out inspiration.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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I think Jesus was trying to point us to our (each of us) Sonship, natural connection to Spirit/God, as a means of healing our lack of wholeness. A savior by means of teaching, showing, empowering. Inside out inspiration.
Moral example?
 
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