Why God Does Not Chasten With Sickness & Death

Andrew · Sep 25, 2002

Lets see, maybe Paul only had one eye after he was blinded by the light ie Paul was a Cyclops! *LOL*

or maybe his eyelashes grew too long thanks to the bright light so he couldnt see clearly.

well, first it was migraine, then it was cataract, now its scarring tissue, what's next....? just like the evolution theories keep changing.....*LOL

LouisBooth · Sep 25, 2002

"Lets see, maybe Paul only had one eye after he was blinded by the light ie Paul was a Cyclops! *LOL*"

If you think that give your biblical basis for it? oh..wait, you're just making fun of someone and have no biblical basis like he did for his point. Got it.

Andrew · Sep 25, 2002

quote: "Inspiration tells us [ALL Scripture] is given by the inspiration of God! 2 Tim. 3:16. If that is true, which it is, who does this [beneath] message come from?"

Pastor NB,

I think you misunderstood Hobart. No one's saying that Ecclesiates is not God inspired. We all agree that it is part of the Bible as much as is Genesis or Revelation.

This commentary was posted by Quaffer in another thread on Ecclesiates in the same section:

According to one commentary:

"Ecclesiastes is the book of the natural man whose interests are confined to the unstable, vanishing pleasures and empty satisfactions of those who live merely "under the sun."Ê The natural man is not aware that all the affirmative answers to life are to be found in Him Who is above, not "under," the sun.Ê The natural manÊgrovels in the dustÊand finds only earthworms, while the spiritual man may soar on wings like eagles (Isa 30:31) above all that is futile and disapointing, and may live in the consciousness of God's companionship, favor, and incomparable, everlasting rewards.Ê

The "Wisdom" of Proverbs is not the "wisdom" of Ecclesiastes.Ê The former is Godlike, the latter is usually human.

Throughout this book not once is the Supreme Being recognized as "Lord". The word used to designate Him is invariable the one that may be applied to God or to idols -"Elohim," the God recognized "under the sun." The wisdom which is thus limited can end only in "a miserable business"Ê and in vexation of spirit until it finds "the wisdom that is from above"(James 3:17) "the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto out glory" (1 Cor 2:7)Ê

God can teach us by showing us His ways/wisdom. (Proverbs)
God also teaches us by showing us the error of human ways/wisdom. (Ecclesiates)

anyway can we please stick to the topic of this thread. thanks

SnuP · Sep 26, 2002

Andrew, I forget if we discused this but do you believe that sin opens the door to sickness?

Quaffer and Hobbes, could you answer this also.

SpiritPsalmist · Sep 26, 2002

Originally posted by SnuP
Andrew, I forget if we discused this but do you believe that sin opens the door to sickness?

Quaffer and Hobbes, could you answer this also.

 

Yes!  I do.

Pastor N.B. · Sep 26, 2002

Originally posted by Andrew
quote: "Inspiration tells us [ALL Scripture] is given by the inspiration of God! 2 Tim. 3:16. If that is true, which it is, who does this [beneath] message come from?"

Pastor NB,

I think you misunderstood Hobart. No one's saying that Ecclesiates is not God inspired. We all agree that it is part of the Bible as much as is Genesis or Revelation.

This commentary was posted by Quaffer in another thread on Ecclesiates in the same section:

According to one commentary:
************************
Hi,
here is what Gods 'inspiration' says about man's commentaries: "The wisdom of man [is foolishness with God.]" 'i' just say 'amen' to His inspiration is all. Nothing negative in any ones sincerity, just in their knowledge. PhD's? Which one of the ream upon reams of this printed stuff do you accept! Thanks, but lovingly, in Christian kindness, for me at least, no thanks.---P/N/B/

PS: If Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 were believed & taken as read by FAITH? Most prophecies could be understood! If there is to be NO SECOND appliciation, (which are the lesser of the two) he simply stated it so. Such as the rainbow in the sky. And Nam. 1:9 about sin NOT arising a SECOND
time. Yes, the problem of PhD's also, [IS ONE OF FAITH!] (most are the sick kind found in Rev. 3:16-17)
************************

"Ecclesiastes is the book of the natural man whose interests are confined to the unstable, vanishing pleasures and empty satisfactions of those who live merely "under the sun."Ê The natural man is not aware that all the affirmative answers to life are to be found in Him Who is above, not "under," the sun.Ê The natural manÊgrovels in the dustÊand finds only earthworms, while the spiritual man may soar on wings like eagles (Isa 30:31) above all that is futile and disapointing, and may live in the consciousness of God's companionship, favor, and incomparable, everlasting rewards.Ê

The "Wisdom" of Proverbs is not the "wisdom" of Ecclesiastes.Ê The former is Godlike, the latter is usually human.

Throughout this book not once is the Supreme Being recognized as "Lord". The word used to designate Him is invariable the one that may be applied to God or to idols -"Elohim," the God recognized "under the sun." The wisdom which is thus limited can end only in "a miserable business"Ê and in vexation of spirit until it finds "the wisdom that is from above"(James 3:17) "the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto out glory" (1 Cor 2:7)Ê

God can teach us by showing us His ways/wisdom. (Proverbs)
God also teaches us by showing us the error of human ways/wisdom. (Ecclesiates)

anyway can we please stick to the topic of this thread. thanks

SpiritPsalmist · Sep 26, 2002

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.

here is what Gods 'inspiration' says about man's commentaries: "The wisdom of man [is foolishness with God.]" 'i' just say 'amen' to His inspiration is all. Nothing negative in any ones sincerity, just in their knowledge. PhD's? <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/sleep.gif" border=0> <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/scratch.gif" border=0> Which one of the ream upon reams of this printed stuff do you accept! Thanks, but lovingly, in Christian kindness, for me at least, no thanks.---P/N/B/
[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but it appears that you did not read what was said.  According to Solomon himself in Eccl 1, he says that he searched things out according to his own mind.  Would that not make what he writes in the book of Eccl as his findings, man's wisdom?

NIV:verses 16, 17

I thought to myself, "Look, I have grown and increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge." Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind.

AMP

I entered into counsel with my own mind, saying, Behold, I have acquired great [human] wisdom, yes, more than all who have been over Jerusalem before me; and my mind has had great experience of [moral] wisdom and [scientific] knowledge. And I gave my mind to know [practical] wisdom and to discern [the character of] madness and folly [in which men see to find satisfaction]; I perceived that this also is a searching after wind and a feeding on it.

NKJ

I communed with my heart, saying, "Look, I have attained greatness, and have gained more wisdom than all who were before me in Jerusalem.  My heart has understood great wisdom and knowledge." And I set my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly.  I perceived that this also is grasping for the wind.

Solomon already had all the Wisdom of God but he set his heart to find out the wisdom and folly of man.  God did inspire that this book be in His Word . . . For the teaching and correction of those who think that what Solomon did and learned from it was God's will. 

There are some in here who will say that it was God's will that Solomon did what he did.  But according to God in 1 Kings 11, it was not.  Are we to take the words of a man written during the time of his madness and folly as direction and leading of God? 

Are we to declare as Solomon did in 1:2 that all of life is meaingless?  God says the "steps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord".  That hardly sounds meaningless to me. 

 

Pastor N.B. · Sep 26, 2002

I'm sorry but it appears that you did not read what was said.  According to Solomon himself in Eccl 1, he says that he searched things out according to his own mind.  Would that not make what he writes in the book of Eccl as his findings, man's wisdom?

(zapped for content)

Are we to declare as Solomon did in 1:2 that all of life is meaingless?  God says the "steps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord".  That hardly sounds meaningless to me. 

  [/B][/QUOTE]
******

Hi,
thanks for you sharing.
We are just on different pages is all. We read in Heb. 5 & Heb. 6 about milk & meat. Which one am 'i' speaking [of]? That is not the point. One of us make the grade, ok?

The Milk of the Word is, that [ALL] SCRIPTURE [IS] INSPIRED BY THE HOLY GHOST. True or false? That is milk, huh? 2 Tim. 3:16. Whose thinking was it in Somomons case then? (Bottom line!)
And what about all of these 'scholors' calling the four, of Matt., Mark, Luke & John the Gospels?? When it is ALL THE WORD OF GOD! Try John 1:1-3 Takes some FAITH TO BELIEVE HUH? Not really, that is 'milk'. Yes, the [Word] in Heb. is MILK FED! (if one can't get past this?? How are they to understand Eccl. 1:9-10 & eccl. 3:16.

Now the four Gospels?? Why do they all say different WORDING? Why have FOUR? Did each writer use his own MIND??? NOW: The [WORD] (CHRIST) said that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY THE INSPIRATION OF THE HOLY GHOST AND IS TO BE USED FOR DOCTRINE...+! And We are told in Rev. 14:6 that the WORD HIMSELF, uses the WORD (hope this is becoming imbeded in the mind-BY THE HOLY GHOST) [EVERLASTING GOSPEL] & in Heb. 13:20 [EVERLASTING COVENANT]. So, these words of man (Soloman)
are HOW OLD? EVERLASTING!!

Yes, it takes FAITH TO BELIEVE IN THE MASTER + [HIS WORD]!
And 'i' realize that all are not there yet. For in closing we see:
"We are of God: he that [knoweth God] heareth us; he that is not of God, heareth not us. Hereby [know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error]." 1 Jn. 4:6 (regardless of which)

And the WORD said what---heareth [US]? What does that mean to you?????? That of Johns mind, (Somomon) or that of the Holy Spirits inspiration?

Let me just add another for consideration. 1 Cor. 14:32 says that.. "And the spirits [of the prophets] [are subject to the prophets]." And here you want me to toss out the 'inspiration' of the Holy Ghost [to the prophets]?
Hardly my friend!----P/N/B/ (and yes, i know that i am spinnnnning my wheels with some on pacifiers perhaps ?)

Pastor N.B. · Sep 26, 2002

Hi again,
Remember that 'man' (educated ones, huh?) added the periods!, Comas, chapter [numbers] & on & on we go. But just for the moment forget that man is to live by [every Word that proceededth out of the mouth of God]. (Matt. 4:4-you know? all scripture!)

Now: Eccl. is short as in 12 of mans conceived chapters! Anyway you need the complete book to [understand] WISDOM FROM THE MASTER!

You omit its [content]! Chapter 8:11 says "Because [sentence against an evil work *is not executed speedily], therefore the heart of the sons of men [is fully set in them to do evil]" Sure seems that he is inspired and leading up to the 'bottom line'? What might that be??? Lets read his last Words of Inspiration...

"Lets hear the [CONCLUSION] (can a jerk understand that? SMILE!)
of the {WHOLE MATTER:} (ALL 66 BOOKS-sorry, just 12 huh? 2 Tim. 3:16)
FEAR GOD, [AND *KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; FOR THIS IS THE *WHOLE *DUTY OF MAN.] Now he closes with...

For God [SHALL BRING EVERY WORK INTO *JUDGEMENT] with every secret thing, wheather it be good, or wheather it be evil." And once again, this is the CONCLUSION TO THE WHOLE MATTER THAT INSPIRATION HAD INSPIRED the person to pen!---take care! P/N/B/

Andrew · Sep 26, 2002

Snup,

"Andrew, I forget if we discused this but do you believe that sin opens the door to sickness?"

Yes of cse. eg if one visits prostitutes, he gets Aids; over-drinks -- liver damage etc. But we dont say God gave the Aids. Even over-working and not resting is a sin -- and u fall sick due to the strain. When we get out of God's will and hence his covering, we become open game for the devil.

but we dont blame every sickness on the devil in the sense that a simple headache cld be due just to overworking and lack of rest. but then in a sense we still blame the devil cos he started it all in the garden.

hope that answers your question.

PS: CAN ALL PLS KEEP TO THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD? MODS pls? tks
BTW: There's another Book of Ecclesiates thread where its more appropriate. thks

SnuP · Sep 26, 2002

I though that we were in an agreement on this issue.

I'm sorry that some here are corrupting this thread with their arguements about Ecclesiates.

SnuP · Sep 26, 2002

Are my eyes deceiving me or is my memory.

I think that some one just deleted a lot of off topic post. If that was the work of a moderator, I and many others here thank you.

Auntie · Sep 26, 2002

humanimal,

I have removed your posts, as they are trollish. You need to stay out of the Christian Only Forums if you are not a Christian.

Auntie · Sep 26, 2002

Originally posted by SnuP
Are my eyes deceiving me or is my memory.

I think that some one just deleted a lot of off topic post. If that was the work of a moderator, I and many others here thank you.

Yer welcome, SnuP.

humanimal · Sep 26, 2002

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
humanimal,

I have removed your posts, as they are trollish. You need to stay out of the Christian Only Forums if you are not a Christian.

 

Ah gee...

I was just agreeing with people and saying amen to their positions!
You are correct... agreeing with Ecclesiasties is not Christian...
Ah well.

Pointless, pointless... it is all pointless

SnuP · Sep 26, 2002

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
Yer welcome, SnuP.

Thank for spelling my name right.  That shows alot of consideration.  It makes me wonder if you are a mother.

Thanks again.

Auntie · Sep 26, 2002

Originally posted by humanimal
 

Ah gee...

I was just agreeing with people and saying amen to their positions!
You are correct... agreeing with Ecclesiasties is not Christian...

humanimal,

Do you profess to be a Christian?

humanimal · Sep 26, 2002

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
humanimal,

Do you profess to be a Christian?

Hello Auntie_Belle_Um.

Off topic. If you can convince me out of the book of Ecclesiasties then I am. This is my book. Looks ike some do not like it here.

thanks anywho

 

SnuP · Sep 26, 2002

It is pointless to argue using resorces that those oposed to your arguement have discounted. You must be able to back up your position with other scripture in order for your arguements to be of value to those oposed to your opinion.

Andrew · Sep 26, 2002

tks auntie Belle Um,

okay, back to why GOd does not chasten with sickness and death......

Why God Does Not Chasten With Sickness & Death

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