Why God Does Not Chasten With Sickness & Death

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Andrew

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Christians who still insist that God chastens with sicknesses and deaths to teach us important lessons such as faith, faithfulness, long-suffering, patience and self-control should consider carefully these points:

* Faith is a grace gift from God (Ephesians 2:8). We can't "earn" it by going through sicknesses and sufferings. Faith comes by hearing repeatedly the words of Christ (Romans 10:17), not by being more and more sick.

* Faithfulness, long-suffering and patience are fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22), not fruit of our sufferings and illnesses. The more we walk in the Spirit and in the revelation of God's Word -- not in sickness -- the more fruit we bear.

* If sickness is a lesson from God, then the Christian who has been sick for many years is obviously a slow learner. And instead of praying for his healing, we should be telling him: "Better buck-up bro, or you're not gonna make it!"

* And if the sick Christian dies eventually, it would mean that he failed to learn God's lesson. And what lesson was so important that it cost him his health, his savings, his marriage and, eventually, his life? What lesson was so important that it made a child fatherless, or a wife without a husband? What lesson was so important that it brought chaos, worry, fear, sorrow and mourning to his loved ones? Does God need to resort to all that?

* Many Christians who argue that it is God's will for them to be sick still see the doctor, rest and take medication, contradicting God's will for them. This is because in their heart, they actually long to be healthy. Their spirit is actually crying out for healing, because that is God's truth and will for them.

* Why pray for the sick (Matthew 10:8, Mark 16:18, James 5:14-16)? How do we know we are not contradicting God's will in each case?

* If the temple of God under the Old Covenant was not decrepit, why should His New Covenant temple, which is our bodies (1 Corinthians 3:16,17, 1 Corinthians 6:19, 2 Corinthians 6:16), be weak and sickly?

* 1 Corinthians 3:17 says that "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are". Now, would God contradict himself by putting leprosy on you? Or a cancer that eats away your internal organs?

* If Christ is the head of the body of the church, which is us (Ephesians 1:22, Ephesians 5:23, Colossians 1:18), why would He want His "arms" and "legs" or us to be diseased and ineffective?

* Jesus said that "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9-11). If we want to know what God is like, we look at Jesus. Jesus never gave sickness or death to anyone. Of the 35 miracles He performed, 23 (or two-thirds) were healings and three, raising the dead. So, if God chastens with sicknesses and deaths, why is this facet of God not reflected in Jesus' earthly ministry?

* Christians are always talking about "following" Jesus or being like Him. Well, Jesus went about healing the sick (Matthew 4:23, Matthew 9:35, Acts 10:38). So, Christians ought to be out there healing the sick. But how can they have the faith to do that if they also believe that God authors sickness? There will be confusion.

* 1 John 4:17 says that "as he is [now], so are we in this world [this life]". Today, our glorified Lord is sitting at the right hand of the Father -- without sickness. So, why would God contradict His own Word by making many of us sick? How can "so are we" be true if God wants many of us sick?

* How can one of the names of God be Jehovah Rapha -- "I am the LORD that healeth thee" (Exodus 15:26) -- if He is also "the Lord who makes you sick"?

* Why would God say in Proverbs 4:22 that His words are "life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh" if He wanted many of us to be sick? If this were true, then Christians who believe that God is making them sick should not read the Bible.
 

SavedByGrace3

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Originally posted by Jephunneh
Why then was Paul not healed of his eye problem?

He was healed:

Acts 9:
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
 
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Rafael

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2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Rev. 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

1 Pet. 4:1 ¶ Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

How much better are we than our Master that we would not follow in suffering, and how much more unto obedience?
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Originally posted by raphe
2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Rev. 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

1 Pet. 4:1 ¶ Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Raphe,

I believe we must add the next verse to that Romans scripture. Verse 9 "and being made perfect, He became the auther of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him."

The suffering of Christ was at the cross. It was completed at the cross.

And Rev 3:19 tells us to repent so He won't have to rebuke and chasten.

1 Pet 4:1 Christ did the suffering at the cross. We are to arm ourselves with the same mind. The mind of obedience to the Father no matter what the cost. Bringing our mind and body under His subjection can be done without Him having to make us too sick to sin.

If we don't sin because we are sick, then the problem is not really solved. God wants to change our hearts. A changed heart brings obedience. And obedience brings deliverence.
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by Andrew


* Jesus said that "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9-11). If we want to know what God is like, we look at Jesus. Jesus never gave sickness or death to anyone. Of the 35 miracles He performed, 23 (or two-thirds) were healings and three, raising the dead. So, if God chastens with sicknesses and deaths, why is this facet of God not reflected in Jesus' earthly ministry? 
[/B]

Good Job Andrew. Yes, EVERYTHING we can know about the Father, is IN the Son. If we want to know about God the father, just look at Jesus.

John 14:7a  "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also;
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Originally posted by JohnR7
Good Job Andrew. Yes, EVERYTHING we can know about the Father, is IN the Son. If we want to know about God the father, just look at Jesus.

John 14:7a  "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also;

Yes brothers, I sometimes wonder why good Christian people choose to follow mere theism rather than the gospel of Jesus Christ. Why they would rather follow the ancient "Job model"  and a backsliden Solomon is odd to me. If we are believers in Jesus, let's follow His Model! He is the exact image. He is the perfect, clear, and concise revelation of the heart and will of God. Not Job, Timothy, Paul, Solomon, or any other vague shadow image. Only Jesus. 
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Originally posted by didaskalos
Yes brothers, I sometimes wonder why good Christian people choose to follow mere theism rather than the gospel of Jesus Christ. Why they would rather follow the ancient "Job model"  and a backsliden Solomon is odd to me. If we are believers in Jesus, let's follow His Model! He is the exact image. He is the perfect, clear, and concise revelation of the heart and will of God. Not Job, Timothy, Paul, Solomon, or any other vague shadow image. Only Jesus. 

 

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!  :clap:

We are to look only at Jesus.  We are to look at His face.  And it's only through looking at His face that we change.

I'm reminded of that old song . . .

Turn your eyes upon Jesus, Look full in His wonderfull face. And the things of earth will grow strangely dim, In the light of His Glory and Grace  :pink: 

Thank You Jesus!  :kiss:

 
 
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GraftMeIn

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Originally posted by hobart schmedly
He was healed:

Acts 9:
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.


So when did Paul become Saul?

And just who was Saul, and why did the Lord choose to heal him? Take a look at this, the first part of Acts 9, the part you failed to mention.

Acts 9

9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
9:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.


 
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Originally posted by GraftMeIn


So when did Paul become Saul? 
  [/B]

Hi GraftMeIn:

Act 13:
9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
 
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Rafael

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The thing about the eyes is a theory about an eye disease prevalent in desert environments. I've heard it in Assembly of God Church.
The scripture about messenger of satan being sent to buffet Pauls flesh and keep him humble is:

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

We do know it was an infirmity from:

2 Cor. 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
 
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Rafael

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Mat. 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

If God were able to save a person from hell by breaking their leg so they could not walk into it, wouldn't that be a mercy to that person that was hellbound?

We look through a glass darkly and only God sees beginning and end. By faith we know and must accept that all things work together for good to those that love God and are the called according to His purpose. I love God, and Jesus Christ is Lord, yet I have had to suffer leukemia and a bone marrow transplant. Are you sure that your faith is that much greater than mine that you can charge mine as mere theism? What happened to humility and considering others as better than yourself? Does this doctrine "believe all things about others or does it give rise to questioning others faith such as was done to Job by his buddies. I've been shunned too by my self-righteous friends just because I became ill. It felt very strange and cold after working shoulder to shoulder so many years with handicapped people and the poor - going into the high-ways and byways to pick them up and bring them in to the Lord's table. We have nothing more than what we have been given and nothing to boast of but Christ and Him crucified. He asked if He would find faith when He returned and also stated that the love of many would grow cold.........why do I feel a chill in the room?
 
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Rafael

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God's Word stands for itself............If it is cruel to lose an eye but go to heaven? Then that is judging God as cruel, for Jesus himself spoke the words of life and the seriousness of sin - the consequence of hell as an eternity. It is indeed serious if a hand or eye kept, can lead to eternity in hell.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
 
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Originally posted by Andrew
Christians who still insist that God chastens with sicknesses and deaths to teach us important lessons

Any christian who says God is making them sick does not know God. If God makes you sick then He is doing evil and God cannot do evil. God has allowed sickness to come into the world do to the original sin. God won't cause you to become sick, but it can be used to show people the power of God. Jesus used healings to show that He was the Son of God and today people can be healed (if you believe that. I do) too and if a non believer sees this that might convict them to follow Jesus.

Anything the devil uses against you, God can turn it around to show His glory.
 
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Andrew

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Amen Lk2117!

Paul's thorn in the flesh was not eye disease. This is dealt with clearly here:

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/thorn.html


But how does God chasten His children? If He does not use pain, sicknesses, accidents or deaths to child-train us, how does He do it? He does it with His Word and to our spirits!

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?.


The verse above says that our earthly fathers are fathers of our flesh, while our heavenly Father is the Father of our spirits. In other words, our natural fathers correct our soul (mind, will, emotions) and body, whereas God corrects our spirit. And He uses his Word to do it.

Psalm 94:12
12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

2 Timothy 3:16,17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
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