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Why Fundumentalism?

seventytwo

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There comes a point in certain beliefs, where in order to retain that particular belief, we must distrust what our own eyes are telling us. For example, although certainly not as an extreme case, YEC's must discredit and throw out things such as light years (which subsequently includes Einstein's theories of Relativity), plate techtonics, sedimentation, elemental decay rates, quantum mechanics, geology, paleontology, biology, collisional-ejection theory, protoplanetary theory, evolution, and MANY more.

Although most YEC's would agree that their litteral interpretation of the bible is nothing more than that: an interpretation. They may all think that their interpretation is right and other interpretations are wrong, but all interpretations believe in the core Christian things: God, and Jesus (+holy spirit?). I think that on a basic level, most YEC's would also agree that their interpretation is only that, and could be wrong. From here, they would agree further to say that just because they were wrong, doesnt mean that some other interpretation is, not to mention that just because they were wrong, that doesnt disprove God, or Jesus, or the Bible, just their views on it.

So, it seems logical to me to say that because fundumentalist YEC's must ignore so many evidence-filled theories and make excuses for so many others, that the fundumentalist interpretation of the bible has been pretty much shown to be a wrong interpretation. I was thinking about how all these theories and scientific discoveries goes against God, as some fundies would say, but that is only true because of the particular interpretation they hold to be true. Evolution is as good as a fact, so is the protoplanetary theory (solar system formation), so is the speed of light, so is plate techtonics, so is relativity, so is elemental decay rates and quantum mechanics. Biology, paleontology, astronomy, astrophysics, geology, chemistry and seismology are all very serious and credible feilds.

Knowing that these fields and theories are as good as rock solid, and that having a wrong interpretation does not reflect on the fact that there is a God, or that Jesus existed, or that He saved us from our sins, they wouldnt the pieces of science and religion fit better for the fundumentalists if they adopted a different interpretation?
 

einstein314emc2

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seventytwo said:
Oh, cmon! To make this post more controversial, the jist of what I am saying is that science proves the litteral interpretation of the bible to be wrong! The fundies should be outraged and the other people should be celebrating that one less interpretation is real!
Everyone knows this. If you think otherwise, your lying to yourself.
 
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Bushido216

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I just want to know what it matters to you, seventytwo. I assure you that no one is going to read this post and change how they view the world. If they want to do that to themselves, let them. Only when they start spewing incorrect science do we correct them.

Think about it, seventytwo, these people are living in a house of cards and they know it! I, for one, pity them. I don't scorn them, however frustrated I may be by them.
 
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packsaddle

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it's easy for you to sit back in your armchair there and commit fundamental logical fallacies such as association, bluffing, ridicule, subversion, etc.

unfortunately, you still offered nothing but grandstanding and handwaving.



how about a debate, friend?

we can reserve a board right here on this site.

just you and me.

back and forth for two hours or so.

no hyperlinks.

no storytelling.

just your thoughts vs. my thoughts.

once the smoke has cleared, we'll let the viewers decide.

so, how about it evo?
 
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Nathan David

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packsaddle said:
it's easy for you to sit back in your armchair there and commit fundamental logical fallacies such as association, bluffing, ridicule, subversion, etc.

unfortunately, you still offered nothing but grandstanding and handwaving.
Actually, he offered scientific facts and contrasted them with the beliefs of extreme biblical literalists. Do you have a response?
 
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MuAndNu

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seventytwo said:
Knowing that these fields and theories are as good as rock solid, and that having a wrong interpretation does not reflect on the fact that there is a God, or that Jesus existed, or that He saved us from our sins, they wouldnt the pieces of science and religion fit better for the fundumentalists if they adopted a different interpretation?
The Apostle Paul seems to make a big deal of a literal interpretation of Genesis. In short, if there was no Fall, there is no need of redemption. (Remember the "by one man's disobedience many were made sinners" of Romans 5?) If men evolved from lower animals, there never was any real Fall.
 
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Svt4Him

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seventytwo said:
Oh, cmon! To make this post more controversial, the jist of what I am saying is that science proves the litteral interpretation of the bible to be wrong! The fundies should be outraged and the other people should be celebrating that one less interpretation is real!
Of course it did. Isn't that what science does? Oh wait, no, science doesn't prove or disprove history.

Again, I believe in evolution. Granted I don't believe a rock will give birth to a cow, but I believe in evolution. Just not the everything from nothing kind.

Now for the scientific facts offered in this thread...I may have missed them. And all these fields are as good as solid rock? Ya, alright. I guess a scientific theory has never been updated or proven wrong then, unless your rock is morphing as well.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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packsaddle said:
it's easy for you to sit back in your armchair there and commit fundamental logical fallacies such as association, bluffing, ridicule, subversion, etc.

unfortunately, you still offered nothing but grandstanding and handwaving.



how about a debate, friend?

we can reserve a board right here on this site.

just you and me.

back and forth for two hours or so.

no hyperlinks.

no storytelling.

just your thoughts vs. my thoughts.

once the smoke has cleared, we'll let the viewers decide.

so, how about it evo?

If you are planning an actual debate, please, please, please learn to write in paragraphs. Y'know, these little groupings of sentences of unified thoughts?

Since debates tend to get very wordy, scrolling through miles of text with a sentence on every other line would be extremely difficult to read and digest.
 
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D

Drotar

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seventytwo said:
There comes a point in certain beliefs, where in order to retain that particular belief, we must distrust what our own eyes are telling us. For example, although certainly not as an extreme case, YEC's must discredit and throw out things such as light years (which subsequently includes Einstein's theories of Relativity), plate techtonics, sedimentation, elemental decay rates, quantum mechanics, geology, paleontology, biology, collisional-ejection theory, protoplanetary theory, evolution, and MANY more.

Although most YEC's would agree that their litteral interpretation of the bible is nothing more than that: an interpretation. They may all think that their interpretation is right and other interpretations are wrong, but all interpretations believe in the core Christian things: God, and Jesus (+holy spirit?). I think that on a basic level, most YEC's would also agree that their interpretation is only that, and could be wrong. From here, they would agree further to say that just because they were wrong, doesnt mean that some other interpretation is, not to mention that just because they were wrong, that doesnt disprove God, or Jesus, or the Bible, just their views on it.

So, it seems logical to me to say that because fundumentalist YEC's must ignore so many evidence-filled theories and make excuses for so many others, that the fundumentalist interpretation of the bible has been pretty much shown to be a wrong interpretation. I was thinking about how all these theories and scientific discoveries goes against God, as some fundies would say, but that is only true because of the particular interpretation they hold to be true. Evolution is as good as a fact, so is the protoplanetary theory (solar system formation), so is the speed of light, so is plate techtonics, so is relativity, so is elemental decay rates and quantum mechanics. Biology, paleontology, astronomy, astrophysics, geology, chemistry and seismology are all very serious and credible feilds.

Knowing that these fields and theories are as good as rock solid, and that having a wrong interpretation does not reflect on the fact that there is a God, or that Jesus existed, or that He saved us from our sins, they wouldnt the pieces of science and religion fit better for the fundumentalists if they adopted a different interpretation?
If you're trying to rationally comprehend the behavior of creationists, I suggest you stop before you have permanent damage to your frontal lobe. :) I got out of that mess.
 
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seventytwo

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packsaddle said:
it's easy for you to sit back in your armchair there and commit fundamental logical fallacies such as association, bluffing, ridicule, subversion, etc.

unfortunately, you still offered nothing but grandstanding and handwaving.



how about a debate, friend?

we can reserve a board right here on this site.

just you and me.

back and forth for two hours or so.

no hyperlinks.

no storytelling.

just your thoughts vs. my thoughts.

once the smoke has cleared, we'll let the viewers decide.

so, how about it evo?

Sure, whatever. I dont know if I can be on for two hours straight doing that, but i will do my best to keep updated! Honestly, Im not exactly sure why you are in such a huff about this post. It was simply a thought I had when I was thinking about evolution, creation, fundumentalism, and the idea of a God. Like I said earlier, these sciences do not say anything about the existance of a god, or THE god, all they do is show that the litteral INTERPRETATION of the bible goes against scientific findings. Other interpretations dont...
 
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seventytwo

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packsaddle said:
just a simple invitation to defend your point of view.

however, it will require two hours of your time and undivided attention.

hey, evolution is a fact, right?

you can't lose!

so, are you in or not?

send me a private message and we can set it up.

Like i said, I dont know if i can give you two solid hours, but i will try my best. You are right that evolution is a fact, but that is in the eyes of the people watching the debate, isnt it. So, the real challenge will be how you can discredit my evidence and shy away from the subject of evidence for your theory.
 
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