DogmaHunter
Code Monkey
No matter if its right or wrong... that is a curious detail.
Complete trust or confidence in someone or something - they/it could be correct or incorrect.
So i guess the next step would be to determine if this someone or something is wrong or right - or for a better term - true or false.
No, here's where you are mistaken. That is not the next step. That is the FIRST step. Before you actually "believe" / accept the proposition. That is, if you care about being rational.
How would you go about verifying the truth - or falsehood - about the below statement? Or would you like me to examine it?
"You can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ."
I don't know. What objectively testable predictions does it make?
Well lets look at what the standard definition is. I refer to google and wiki
Faith is a complete trust or confidence in someone or something or a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
Wiki on faith.
In the context of religion, one can define faith as confidence or trust in a particular system of religious belief,
[1] within which faith may equate to confidence based on some perceived degree of warrant,
[2]in contrast to a definition of faith as being belief without evidence.
The word translated as "faith" in the New Testament is the Greek word πίστις (pístis) which can also be translated "belief", "faithfulness", and "trust".
Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Faith in the unseen leads to the proof of God - ask me?
Religious faith, is belief without evidence.
Lets say your child - congratulations by the way - did not know any better and you were trying to explain a more advanced concept to them. If this concept is not understood it could be fatal for the recipient. Why would the child be unjustified to have faith in what you say and acknowledge what you said is truth?
If you need to appeal to children's blind acceptance of what perceived authorities tell them, in order to draw an analogy for your religious beliefs, then you are just making my point for me.
Indeed, it is juvenile. Children grow out of such blind acceptance of what authorities tell them. As an adult, there are other standards to adhere to.
We go to doctors because it has been observed that many people have been remedied of their illnesses. Now this is not faith without evidence, this is a case of trust. We put our trust in the doctor ie faith.
No, that's not faith in the religious sense. That's a reasonable and rational expectation based on the objective evidence and track record of medical science.
Faith in the religious sense, would be more like believing that your car mechanic with no medical training whatsoever, is able to cure your cancer. There's no objective evidence or track record for that.
Besides religion, have you ever encountered a situation where you could not see the outcome or situation, and had to trust someones word for it or decision?
Not blindly, no. I require objective reasons for putting my trust in something. Also, real world situations are false analogies. Real world situations don't require me to believe that natural laws have been suspended or violated.
Your religious claims, do.
Faith can be justified by a result either observed or experienced personally.
No. This is where bias comes into play.
To distinguish true from false, you require objective means to make that evaluation. Counting only on your own experience (or more exactly, your interpretation thereof...) is subjective.
Faith is trust
Religious faith isn't.
Trust is based on objective track records.
Religious faith, is blind acceptance of propositions.
At the end of the day neither you and i can know everything or have the data so we will have to accept an appeal to authority.
No. I have no problem acknowledging ignorance and just saying "i don't know".
Appeal to authority, btw, is a logical fallacy.
Why do you accept the thoughts and conclusions of men who are extremely prone to error? Why are they more convincing than Christianity?
Which thoughts and conclusions are you talking about?
A phylogenetic tree or evolutionary tree is a branching diagram or "tree" showing the evolutionary relationships among various biological species or other entities—their phylogeny (/faɪˈlɒdʒəni/)
Please excuse me. This diagram is not a form of proof! Why should i be convinced of evolution based on this artwork?
It's not artwork.
You seem to think that such diagrams are dreamed up. They aren't. They are factual representations of shared genetics, anatomy, geographic distribution, etc.
These days, they aren't even drawn. They are auto-generated, based on completely sequenced genomes, by algoritms. And the only thing these algorithms do, is compare sequences of DNA and map out matches.
If the matches end up in a bush instead of a tree, then that is the graph that the algorithm will generate. But it isn't. It's a nested hierarchy. Every time. And it matches the hierachies if you look at just sequences of DNA, individual genes, entire genomes, comparative anatomy, etc.
These are all independent datasets that perfectly converge on the exact same answer, every single time.
So you can auto-dissmiss that as well out of ignorance?Have you got anything else?
Ps one at a time
First, try to comprehend this one properly.
Well i guess its my time to shine. Could you please give me an example of how this is so?
I'm not going to give you an education in the evolutionary process.
In short:
- every new born comes with a set of mutations.
- every new born inherits its genes from its parents, including the mutations of those parents, while adding its own mutations.
- generation after generation, accumulation takes place of the mutations of the ancestors plus the mutations of the individual
- a diverging family / phylogenetic tree is the only possible outcome. Well... that, or extinction.
Or you're just ignorant / uneducated concerning the subject, off course.In other words "there must be something wrong with you if you question it".
As you clearly are, as proven in the above paragraphes. When you think that a phylogenetic tree is "just artwork", then clearly you aren't well informed.
If you then also need to ask how the evolution process produces such hierarchies, then clearly you don't have a clue.
That's fine. Ignorance is easily cured, after all. It just takes a bit of study.
Off course, if you are unwilling to put in the effort to do that, then you'll just miss the facts. But then you don't get to argue about it either. Or at least, your opinions about it are worthless / meaningless.
Why should we not question evolution, what makes it so concrete that it is absolutely certain?
Not "absolutely" certain - in science, nothing is "absolutely" certain.
But it surely is as certain as it gets in science. And what makes that a true statement - I just explained it to you: convergence on the exact same conclusion by literally all relevant sets of (independent) data, that you can even cross reference with other sciences like geology and geological timelines. And literally not a single piece of evidence that contradicts it.
That's about as good as it ever gets in science. This makes evolution one of the most, if not THE most supported, theories in all of science.
We know more about evolution then we know about atoms.
So evolution is a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end or a natural series of changes. How do you account for so much diversity considering we have only a one single celled organism as our ancestor?
It is literally what evolution explains.
Inheritance of traits and genetic isolation, inevitably leading to divergence.
There you have it peoples Dogmahunter has a dogma and a faith. Evolution is incontrovertibly true he does not question it.
Not at all what I said.
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