Why evolution isn't scientific

[Bungle_Bear]

are you saying that we cant push bear evolution?

I'm saying we can't push it as far as you want to push it.

if you agree that we can push it back then you also need to agree that we can push it back to about 200 my ago.

Why do I need to agree with that? Following your line of reasoning, you need to agree that you were an adult when you were just 3 years old. In fact, you need to agree that you were an adult in 1623.

If you can see a problem with that reasoning then simply apply the same thinking to your claim about evolution.

otherwise you will make no sense.

There is somebody in this conversation who is not making sense, and it's not me

 

[xianghua]

I'm saying we can't push it as far as you want to push it.

if you agree that 200 my old bear fossil is impossible, where is the limit that make it possible? for instance: if the first bear is about 40 my old, do you agree that we can push it by about another 20-30 my?

 

[xianghua]

Then you do not understand what you are arguing against.

same to you here.

 

[xianghua]

But it did not appear "too early". Again, why did you make this error?

yes it is. here is the figure that show why:

look at the bottom left (image from wiki). do you see that these fossil tracks predate all these transitional fishes?

 

[Subduction Zone]

same to you here.

If you can be honest enough to admit that you do not understand what you are arguing about I will answer your question.

 

[Subduction Zone]

yes it is. here is the figure that show why:

look at the bottom left (image from wiki). do you see that these fossil tracks predate all these transitional fishes?

What "fossil tracks" are you nattering about?

 

[AV1611VET]

If you can be honest enough to admit that you do not understand what you are arguing about I will answer your question.

I don't know squat about what I'm arguing against; I just know it's wrong.

 

[xianghua]

What "fossil tracks" are you nattering about?

these one:

Non-marine palaeoenvironment associated to the earliest tetrapod tracks

Tetrapod trackways from the early Middle Devonian period of Poland

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't know squat about what I'm arguing against; I just know it's wrong.

Then you do not know. You only believe.

 

[Aman777]

if you agree that 200 my old bear fossil is impossible, where is the limit that make it possible? for instance: if the first bear is about 40 my old, do you agree that we can push it by about another 20-30 my?

Not and be able to support your notion with the agreement of Scripture, science and history. Sticking to the Truth is the way to Heaven.

 

[Kylie]

but we both agree that we can push bear evolution. right? so the question is where is the limit. i say that there is no such a limit. you say that there is such a limit. so where is your limit? so far you gave no specific answer. so your claim that such a limit exist has no evidence.

Feel free to push bear evolution as much as you want - PROVIDED you can produce evidence to back up your claims.

You can't imagine something and then claim that your imagination disproves evolution, and yet that's all you've been doing.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

if you agree that 200 my old bear fossil is impossible,

Finally you're starting to make sense.

where is the limit that make it possible? for instance: if the first bear is about 40 my old, do you agree that we can push it by about another 20-30 my?

Why are you so hung up on exact dates?

Let's agree that you were an adult at age 22.
Let's also agree that you were not an adult at age 15.

At what exact age did you become an adult? 17 years? 18 years 3 months and 4 days? The honest answer is "somewhere between 15 and 22." It doesn't need to be any more precise than that, yet that is what you're asking for. An exact date would only matter if you had evidence that you became an adult at, say, 14 years 7 months and 6 days. But until you produce that evidence the exact date of you becoming an adult is really not important.

 

[xianghua]

Feel free to push bear evolution as much as you want - PROVIDED you can produce evidence to back up your claims.

You can't imagine something and then claim that your imagination disproves evolution, and yet that's all you've been doing.

and once again you didnt answer my simple question. do you agree that we can push bear evolution by 20-30 my or not?

 

[xianghua]

Finally you're starting to make sense.

Why are you so hung up on exact dates?

Let's agree that you were an adult at age 22.
Let's also agree that you were not an adult at age 15.

At what exact age did you become an adult? 17 years? 18 years 3 months and 4 days? The honest answer is "somewhere between 15 and 22." It doesn't need to be any more precise than that, yet that is what you're asking for. An exact date would only matter if you had evidence that you became an adult at, say, 14 years 7 months and 6 days. But until you produce that evidence the exact date of you becoming an adult is really not important.

so please answer my question: do you agree that we can push bear evolution by another 20-30 my?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

and once again you didnt answer my simple question. do you agree that we can push bear evolution by 20-30 my or not?

I'm pretty sure she has answered your question before, repeatedly, and yet you keep ignoring it.
But I'll give it a shot and say: no.

 

[xianghua]

I'm pretty sure she has answered your question before, repeatedly, and yet you keep ignoring it.
But I'll give it a shot and say: no.

so we cant push bear evolution from say 40 my to about 60?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

so we cant push bear evolution from say 40 my to about 60?

It really depends on what you mean by 'bear'. If we find something along the lines of the Allocyon Loganensis, which is an ancestor of the Ursidae family, which was found in the Early Oligocene (34 to 30 million years ago), that would not stir up much a fuss since... it's basically a raccoon. It would be expected to find something like that.
If you mean bear as in a Brown Bear found 40 million years ago, that would be a HUGE problem.

 

[xianghua]

If you mean bear as in a Brown Bear found 40 million years ago, that would be a HUGE problem.

according to wiki the earliest genus of bears known is date to about 38. so there is no problem to push bear evolution in only about 2-3 my.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

according to wiki the earliest genus of bears known is date to about 38. so there is no problem to push bear evolution in only about 2-3 my.

Yeah, but the animal you'd find 38 million years ago would be something that looked like a raccoon. Its skull was only 7cm long.
If you're suggesting that scientists wouldn't have a problem if the fossil of a modern bear was found in sediment dated to 38 million years, then you are HORRIBLY wrong.

 

[xianghua]

If you're suggesting that scientists wouldn't have a problem if the fossil of a modern bear was found in sediment dated to 38 million years, then you are HORRIBLY wrong.

what is the problem? scientists already pushed many creatures back. i see no difference with the bear case.