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Why Evolution is True

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OldWiseGuy

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You hope.

That's a big part of it.


Hebrews 11:

1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
 
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stevevw

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Well maybe the best way to describe faith is to use the bible.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/titus/1-2.html
Hebrews 11:1-39 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead. By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. By faith Abraham, even though he was past age--and Sarah herself was barren--was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise. And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death. By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future. By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph's sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff. By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions about his bones. By faith Moses' parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king's edict. By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh's daughter. He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king's anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel. By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days. By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient. And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised.
 
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bhsmte

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What is the "True church"? I thought they were all true for the people who worshipped in them?

The true church is usually the one that each person decides to follow. Similar to; the true interpretation of scripture, is usually the one each person believes in.
 
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Dizredux

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The true church is usually the one that each person decides to follow. Similar to; the true interpretation of scripture, is usually the one each person believes in.
And somehow each denomination asserts that God agrees with them no matter how different the theology.

Dizredux
 
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OldWiseGuy

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This is where the psychological gymnastics comes in handy.

I think you'll find that most Christians admit that they are still learning.
 
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bhsmte

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I think you'll find that most Christians admit that they are still learning.

Still learning what exactly?

Your statement may be true for some, but for others, their learning is simply geared towards manufacturing ways to defend what they already believe. How do they do that? Confirmation bias, selective reasoning and flat out denial. We see this in action everyday on CF.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Still learning what exactly?

Whatever it is that they're learning.

Your statement may be true for some, but for others, their learning is simply geared towards manufacturing ways to defend what they already believe. How do they do that? Confirmation bias, selective reasoning and flat out denial. We see this in action everyday on CF.

This is true. I myself believe in British Israelism, and GAP theory, both rejected by most of Christianity. It is my experience that most Christians have pet beliefs that can not be supported directly by scripture, most of which are never openly expressed. That's just the way it is.
 
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justlookinla

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And somehow each denomination asserts that God agrees with them no matter how different the theology.

Dizredux

Godlessness and denial of Jesus Christ is the intelligent path to take? Because of the disagreements and all? Or should we proclaim Jesus Christ as the only savior, the only Son of God, the only Lamb of God? (sorry to be using the word "only"....I know you don't especially like it)

At what point is Jesus Christ to be discarded because of the disagreements within Christianity?
 
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Dizredux

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Godlessness and denial of Jesus Christ is the intelligent path to take? Because of the disagreements and all? Or should we proclaim Jesus Christ as the only savior, the only Son of God, the only Lamb of God? (sorry to be using the word "only"....I know you don't especially like it)

At what point is Jesus Christ to be discarded because of the disagreements within Christianity?
Again with a non sequitur. How did your response relate to my post?

Just, my boy, you seem to be having ever increasing difficulty connecting to what people say.

Dizredux
 
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bhsmte

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Again with a non sequitur. How did your response relate to my post?

Just, my boy, you seem to be having ever increasing difficulty connecting to what people say.

Dizredux

Having a set of psychological blinders on, will do that.
 
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justlookinla

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This is true. I myself believe in British Israelism, and GAP theory, both rejected by most of Christianity. It is my experience that most Christians have pet beliefs that can not be supported directly by scripture, most of which are never openly expressed. That's just the way it is.

One does not necessarily have to agree with British Israelism and the Gap theory in order to be redeemed though, do they? While there may be implications for rejecting those viewpoints, salvation isn't one of them?

In other words, Christians can disagree on many viewpoints and still consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ?
 
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justlookinla

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Again with a non sequitur. How did your response relate to my post?

Just, my boy, you seem to be having ever increasing difficulty connecting to what people say.

Dizredux

Oh, I think I'm connecting very well with what you say. Your responses are almost always critical of Christianity and Christians, seldom, if ever, complimentary of Christianity and Christians in spite of your disagreements with them.

The problem, it seems, from you is your unwillingness to testify of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, choosing instead to mock and ridicule those Christians who have a differing belief in creationism.

So, yes, I think I'm connecting very very well with what you say.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Then you truly do not know what you are talking about. Find something you can talk about with some authenticity. (if you must talk at all woman)

Sexism, how 1950s of you. I could ask you to talk with something you actually know stuff about too every time you open your mouth about physics. But if the bible has such amazing prophecies as you claim, then surely you have at least 5 amazingly specific ones which have historical support beyond the bible which have been written first then probably fulfilled later.
 
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bhsmte

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Sexism, how 1950s of you. I could ask you to talk with something you actually know stuff about too every time you open your mouth about physics. But if the bible has such amazing prophecies as you claim, then surely you have at least 5 amazingly specific ones which have historical support beyond the bible which have been written first then probably fulfilled later.

Fundamentalism and sexism typically get along well together.

Was the 1950's a different state past?
 
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Dizredux

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Dizredux

Again with a non sequitur. How did your response relate to my post?

Just, my boy, you seem to be having ever increasing difficulty connecting to what people say.
Just
Oh, I think I'm connecting very well with what you say. Your responses are almost always critical of Christianity and Christians, seldom, if ever, complimentary of Christianity and Christians in spite of your disagreements with them.
Yes I am very critical of some Christians particularly the dishonest ones that follow Martin Luther's idea that telling lies for Christ is a good idea. I think this is very damaging to Christianity, much more damaging than non believers are. To combat this is one of the reasons I am here.

The problem, it seems, from you is your unwillingness to testify of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, choosing instead to mock and ridicule those Christians who have a differing belief in creationism.
First, I testify in my own way. I am not a street preacher, if you look, in the Sermon on the Mount, Christ has some things to say about doing in public to show the world your righteousness and doing in private for the glory of God. He had some very strong things to say about prayer in that respect as a good example. I focus heavy the Sermon on the Mount in my personal theology. The rest is between God and myself and I testify at his direction, not yours.

That is all I am going to say about this, it simply is not your business and to question my being a Christian is against the forum rules. So stop! It does not reflect well on you. I don't question your faith, don't question mine.

Second, I have no problem with other honest views on creation. Someone being a YEC, for example; if that is part of their religious belief I accept it as such. I have no problems with your views on evolution if they are presented on the same basis.

I try really hard not to challenge anyone's religious views but do my best to accept them as they state them (there are exceptions but these are very extreme cases). If they state these views as fact however then they leave themselves open to challenge and this forum is designed for those challenges. If you don't care for it, there are some restricted forums here for believers only that you might like better.

So what we have here, is a case of if one is being beaten if a debate involving religion, challenge the opponent's faith. Sleazy but you seem to like it. Says something about you much more than me. Don't be that kind of person. I suspect Christ would not approve.

What I do have problems is Christians saying things that patently not true. Being dishonest is not, as far as I can tell, a Christian virtue but you may feel differently, Luther certainly did.

[just]So, yes, I think I'm connecting very very well with what you say.[/quote] You are connecting with me about as well as you are connecting with reality at least on this subject.

The general consensus on the forum seems to clearly be that you are simply wrong in your thesis and have been wrong from the start plus many seem to strongly feel that you are becoming rather annoying with your tactics.

So can the sleeze Just, it does not reflect well on you.

Dizredux
 
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justlookinla

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What I do have problems is Christians saying things that patently not true. Being dishonest is not, as far as I can tell, a Christian virtue but you may feel differently, Luther certainly did.

Do you have a problem with those who deny Jesus Christ as creator? They're promoting a view that is patently not true, you know. Your issue seems to be with believers, those who embrace the viewpoint that Jesus Christ is creator, not with the antichrist atheists.

Strange how that is.

The general consensus on the forum seems to clearly be that you are simply wrong in your thesis and have been wrong from the start plus many seem to strongly feel that you are becoming rather annoying with your tactics.

So can the sleeze Just, it does not reflect well on you.

Dizredux

The general consensus on the forum, although one could not prove it by your silence, is that Jesus Christ is creator.
 
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Dizredux

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Dizredux

What I do have problems is Christians saying things that patently not true. Being dishonest is not, as far as I can tell, a Christian virtue but you may feel differently, Luther certainly did.

Just
Do you have a problem with those who deny Jesus Christ as creator?
No not unless they feel they have to be dishonest in supporting this.

Just
They're promoting a view that is patently not true, you know.
It is their view and since I have no empirical evidence for or against the existence of God, I cannot say their view is not true. For myself, I know I have no evidence, it is simply faith on my part. Jesus said some things about the value of faith.

Just
Your issue seems to be with believers, those who embrace the viewpoint that Jesus Christ is creator, not with the antichrist atheists.
No, not is the least. My problems are with believers who follow the Luther ideas that it is all right to lie for Christ. Those I have a big issue with. Simply enough, I feel these do much more damage to Christianity than atheists.

Just
Strange how that is.
Even stranger that you read what I write and cannot understand it. More evidence for a reading comprehension issue.

Diz
The general consensus on the forum seems to clearly be that you are simply wrong in your thesis and have been wrong from the start plus many seem to strongly feel that you are becoming rather annoying with your tactics. So can the sleeze Just, it does not reflect well on you.
Just
The general consensus on the forum, although one could not prove it by your silence, is that Jesus Christ is creator.
More non sequitur. Your response did not in any way connect with what I wrote on consensus. More evidence for reading comprehension issues.

As another point. I have stated *many* times on the forum that I believe God made all that in the universe as well as the processes that operate withing that universe. That you do not know this is further evidence of reading comprehension issues. You continuously seem to not understand what you read even on a simple level.

Again, I suggest an good evaluation on reading comprehension. Nothing to be ashamed of as it is usually neurological and nothing you had any choice in. It can, however, be helped to a good extent.

Dizredux
 
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justlookinla

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Dizredux

What I do have problems is Christians saying things that patently not true. Being dishonest is not, as far as I can tell, a Christian virtue but you may feel differently, Luther certainly did.

JustNo not unless they feel they have to be dishonest in supporting this.

Just It is their view and since I have no empirical evidence for or against the existence of God, I cannot say their view is not true. For myself, I know I have no evidence, it is simply faith on my part. Jesus said some things about the value of faith.

Just No, not is the least. My problems are with believers who follow the Luther ideas that it is all right to lie for Christ. Those I have a big issue with. Simply enough, I feel these do much more damage to Christianity than atheists.

JustEven stranger that you read what I write and cannot understand it. More evidence for a reading comprehension issue.

DizJustMore non sequitur. Your response did not in any way connect with what I wrote on consensus. More evidence for reading comprehension issues.

As another point. I have stated *many* times on the forum that I believe God made all that in the universe as well as the processes that operate withing that universe. That you do not know this is further evidence of reading comprehension issues. You continuously seem to not understand what you read even on a simple level.

Again, I suggest an good evaluation on reading comprehension. Nothing to be ashamed of as it is usually neurological and nothing you had any choice in. It can, however, be helped to a good extent.

Dizredux

Keep on mocking and ridiculing the Christians while encouraging the antichrist atheistis, if that's what makes you happy.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Keep on mocking and ridiculing the Christians while encouraging the antichrist atheistis, if that's what makes you happy.

:doh: did you not read what he said? And are you forgetting the person you are making that comment to is a Christian? Not siding with you doesn't make them not a Christian, do you think I side with every atheist out there?
 
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