Why Evolution is True

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Loudmouth

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can you document this?

Yes. Below the level of species is changes in alleles within a population. Above that level is divergence between two populations. That is speciation. It's right there in the definition.

secondly, I take a more straightforward interpretation of "above the level of species." Namely that "level" is referring to taxonomy.

That level is the population level.
 
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Naturalism

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without begging the question, one would have to submit which features "that are midway" between Homo and Afarensis.

Fair enough. Is the pelvis midway? The Jaw?

I would say a decent candidate for an intermediate between Afarensis and Homo would be H. Habilis or even H. Ergaster.
 
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Loudmouth

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Fair enough. Is the pelvis midway? The Jaw?

I would say a decent candidate for an intermediate between Afarensis and Homo would be H. Habilis or even H. Ergaster.

The pelvis is more like modern humans than other modern ape species.

326_71_Fa.jpg


P. troglodytes is modern chimps, in case anyone was wondering.

In Australopithecines we have a turn in the iliac blade like that in humans, it is shorter and wider like humans, and the pubic symphysis is facing more ventrally like that in the human. When we look elsewhere in Australopithecines we see much more ape-like features such as a smaller cranium, longer arms, conical chest, less flexible wrists, strong brow ridges, prognathus, etc.

We see a mixture of human and basal ape features in Australopithecines, exactly what we should see in a transitional.
 
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createdtoworship

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A transition between two genra again doesn't necessarily live at the same time as those genra. Plus, sure, there are more recent transitions such as between humans and chimpanzees, but your assumption would lead one to believe humans and cats should be able to reproduce together too, just because we share a mammalian ancestor at some point in the past.

never said they live at the same time, they can be any generation, century, date, etc. As long as the common ancestry is proven.
 
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CabVet

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never said they live at the same time, they can be any generation, century, date, etc. As long as the common ancestry is proven.

Proven by what? If I have samples of your DNA, your grandmother's DNA and your cousin's DNA, can I prove that you are related and share a common ancestor?
 
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createdtoworship

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Proven by what? If I have samples of your DNA, your grandmother's DNA and your cousin's DNA, can I prove that you are related and share a common ancestor?

yes and no, homologous genetical similarities are very frequent between humans and rats, flies, dogs, cats and you name it. So it depends on what genetic study is done.
 
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CabVet

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yes and no, homologous genetical similarities are very frequent between humans and rats, flies, dogs, cats and you name it. So it depends on what genetic study is done.

In other words, yes when it supports your belief system and no when it doesn't. So, you say that we are genetically similar to chimps because of a common designer, correct?
 
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Loudmouth

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never said they live at the same time, they can be any generation, century, date, etc. As long as the common ancestry is proven.

Hybrid: the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera, especially as produced through human manipulation for specific genetic characteristics.
Hybrid | Define Hybrid at Dictionary.com

How does a human mate with an Australopithecine that lived 3 million years ago? How do they produce an offspring?
 
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Loudmouth

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yes and no, homologous genetical similarities are very frequent between humans and rats, flies, dogs, cats and you name it. So it depends on what genetic study is done.

We share a common ancestor with all of those species groups, so of course we share genetic similarities. What is it about universal common descent that you are having a tough time with?
 
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createdtoworship

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The pelvis is more like modern humans than other modern ape species.

326_71_Fa.jpg


P. troglodytes is modern chimps, in case anyone was wondering.

In Australopithecines we have a turn in the iliac blade like that in humans, it is shorter and wider like humans, and the pubic symphysis is facing more ventrally like that in the human. When we look elsewhere in Australopithecines we see much more ape-like features such as a smaller cranium, longer arms, conical chest, less flexible wrists, strong brow ridges, prognathus, etc.

We see a mixture of human and basal ape features in Australopithecines, exactly what we should see in a transitional.

thanks for the post however, there are problems with this picture for example they look fake, too clean to be originals. Do you have CT scans? I have found some pictures (next best thing)


now prove your point
here is some actual replicas of fossils (blue means reconstruction)

here is LUCY

Australopithecus afarensis: AL 288-1 | eFossils Resources

even here:

http://www.efossils.org/page/bonevie...sis/AL 288-1

note how Lucy is forward facing on the lobes of the hip

and note below how a human like hip wraps around for 360 degree balance for walking upright (not knuckle dragging)

News/Media Center

do you see the same bone configuration of the ilium (specifically) in actual photos of fossils, or CT scans?
 
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Loudmouth

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thanks for the post however, there are problems with this picture for example they look fake,

It's from a peer reviewed scientific paper in one of the most respected scientific journals in the world.

Author Summary

If your only recourse is "scientists are faking the data" then you have already lost.

note how Lucy is forward facing on the lobes of the hip

Ilia are on the side, just like in humans. Quit lying.
 
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PsychoSarah

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never said they live at the same time, they can be any generation, century, date, etc. As long as the common ancestry is proven.

Common ancestry is shown, but we aren't going to make some ridiculous hybrids with transitional a which are extinct.
 
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createdtoworship

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Common ancestry is shown, but we aren't going to make some ridiculous hybrids with transitional a which are extinct.

how is common ancestry proven. not merely implied. and if the observations cannot be verified why do my tax dollars fund their pseudo-non-science.?
 
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CabVet

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how is common ancestry proven. not merely implied. and if the observations cannot be verified why do my tax dollars fund their pseudo-non-science.?

You have no idea what you are talking about. Common ancestry is determined using the very same methods that are accepted in court to determine human ancestry. Are you ready to throw those out?
 
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PsychoSarah

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how is common ancestry proven. not merely implied. and if the observations cannot be verified why do my tax dollars fund their pseudo-non-science.?

You know by your logic, Argon and Neon would have to be capable of forming bonds to prove both were atoms.

You act as if there is only one way to demonstrate common ancestry, and pick the most ridiculous one
 
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createdtoworship

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It's from a peer reviewed scientific paper in one of the most respected scientific journals in the world.

Author Summary

If your only recourse is "scientists are faking the data" then you have already lost.



Ilia are on the side, just like in humans. Quit lying.

like I said ...find ct scans of side facing ilia , or pictures of it. I did
btw. its not a lie. because that entails you proving myself to have willful intent to deceive. at worst I am missinformed not lying. so you again are wrong once more. thirdly yours is an appeal to authority as well. , and so thats three strikes. should I proceed to analyze you post?
 
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createdtoworship

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You know by your logic, Argon and Neon would have to be capable of forming bonds to prove both were atoms.

You act as if there is only one way to demonstrate common ancestry, and pick the most ridiculous one

at least I through out lucy as a possibility
to date you have given no links, no sources, no observations, and no conclusive evidence. should I proceed?
 
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PsychoSarah

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at least I through out lucy as a possibility
to date you have given no links, no sources, no observations, and no conclusive evidence. should I proceed?

I don't need to repeat the sources and information given to you countless times by other people. Plus, I would rather not copy paste.

You thought Lucy was the produce of humans having sex with chimps, sorry, but not sound, seeing as neither humans nor chimps existed at the same time Lucy and others of her species were alive
 
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