Why don't protestants make the sign of the Cross?

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

Ceallaigh said:
Probably because they are following all of the instructions Jesus gave on how to pray and on what Jesus and Paul said about the Holy Spirit regarding prayer. Romans 8:26-27 seems to clearly state that the Holy Spirit interceeds for us as we pray to the Father. No one in scripture ever directs prayer to anyone other than the Father.

If Protestants believe scripture teaches God to be Triune and that it teaches: The Father, Son, and HS are all equally God then they should be able to deduce from scripture that any prayer can be directed to any of the persons of God, not just the father, without the scripture directly telling so. Baptism itself is said to be in the Name of The Father, Son, and HS - Name, not names. What is said in your post is the first grounds of confusion in regards to the trinity which is part of the building blocks of unitarianism.

FireDragon76 · Jun 11, 2024

Ceallaigh said:
Probably because they are following all of the instructions Jesus gave on how to pray and on what Jesus and Paul said about the Holy Spirit regarding prayer. Romans 8:26-27 seems to clearly state that the Holy Spirit interceeds for us as we pray to the Father. No one in scripture ever directs prayer to anyone other than the Father.

Of course all three Persons of the Holy Trinity may be addressed in prayer. Each Person of the Trinity is equally God. There is also a perichoresis, or mutual indwelling of the Persons of the Trinity, so that each Person is of one will and one substance with the others.

ozso · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
If Protestants believe scripture teaches God to be Triune and that it teaches: The Father, Son, and HS are all equally God then they should be able to deduce from scripture that any prayer can be directed to any of the persons of God, not just the father. Baptism itself is said to be in the Name of The Father, Son, and HS - Name, not names. What is said in your post is the first grounds of confusion in regards to the trinity which is part of the building blocks of unitarianism.

Protestants tend to go with biblical teaching and example. What biblical teaching and example of prayer are they not following?

ozso · Jun 11, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
That's biblicism, not Lutheranism.

Of course all three persons of the Holy Trinity may be addressed in prayer. Each Person of the Trinity is equally God. There is also a perichoresis, or mutual indwelling of the Persons of the Trinity, so that each Person is of one will and one substance with the others.

Nonetheless Christians tend to do what they've been taught to do, and many are only or mainly taught what scripture teaches. And that's why there are those who don't make the sign of the cross.

It's like why don't most Christians stand akimbo while praying? Or stand at attention or at ease military style? Or assume the lotus position? It's because they weren't taught to do so.

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

Ceallaigh said:
Protestants tend to go with biblical teaching and example. What biblical teaching and example of prayer are they not following?

The Bible teaches the Holy Spirit is God. If protestants are following biblical teaching, they should be able to associate the Bible's teaching of the Holy Spirit's divinity means we can pray to him. How can you believe in God and not believe in praying to him at the same time, how can you believe God exists in 3 persons yet say only 1/3 can be prayed to?

When i took lessons of the unitarian restoration cult known as the Iglesia Ni Cristo, the whole "where are the verses that say pray to the Holy Spirit" where raised in their arguments against the doctrine of the trinity, and the fact that the Bible doesn't have prayers to the Holy Spirit is somewhat "evidence" that the Holy Spirit isn't God. JW's made this same argument.

This is one of the reasons why I think the sign of the cross is very important to christians, as it shows that our faith is God is Trinity and this gesture is a historical reminder for our faith because this was used even before Constantine existed (which means it's not a "catholic thingy" as protestants clam).

FireDragon76 · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
The Bible teaches the Holy Spirit is God. If protestants are following biblical teaching, they should be able to associate the Bible's teaching of the Holy Spirit's divinity means we can pray to him. How can you believe in God and not believe in praying to him at the same time, how can you believe God exists in 3 persons yet say only 1/3 can be prayed to?

When i took lessons of the unitarian restoration cult known as the Iglesia Ni Cristo, the whole "where are the verses that say pray to the Holy Spirit" where raised in their arguments against the doctrine of the trinity, and the fact that the Bible doesn't have prayers to the Holy Spirit is somewhat "evidence" that the Holy Spirit isn't God. JW's made this same argument.

This is one of the reasons why I think the sign of the cross is very important to christians, as it shows that our faith is God is Trinity and this gesture is a historical reminder for our faith because this was used even before Constantine existed (which means it's not a "catholic thingy" as protestants clam).

The Cross as a universal Christian symbol actually arrived later than most Christians realize, after the end of the Roman repression of Christianity. The Chi-Ro symbol is older, as is the use of the Fish (ichthus, which is an acronym for Iesuos Christos Theou Huios Soter - Jesus Christ Son of God, Savior.

In early Christianity, icons of the Cross were actually used as mockery by non-Christians. Early Christians had a diversity of images for their religion. Jonah being swallowed by a whale was actually common.

timewerx · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
Superstition?
I would like to hear from protestants as to why it being "non-biblical" means anything, especially since it's a historic gesture of the faith.

Let's just say some scriptural passages would refer to the practice as being evil because the Bible did not instruct believers to do it and to "add" or "take away" from the Bible is considered evil.

But we don't want to go down that path of discussion because it's considered against forum rules (to accuse another branch of religion as evil or "non-Christian").

But personally, as a non-Catholic, I remain partial to practice. I won't do it but I also won't automatically think of someone doing it as evil.

Let's just say there are way better ways to express the goodness of one's heart and many many more things that people normally do that is way way more evil.

I would think of this topic of very little consequence to one's salvation or righteousness whether you do it or not. We really shouldn't be bitterly arguing on this topic.

nalex1066 · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"

I wonder why Protestants do not do this? I know that it's not made a rule in scripture, but I feel it's a part of christian history that should never be broken. It shows that our faith was always the Trinity, despite the lies that many cults and other religions claim. For example, Islam, Jehovah's wittness, Iglesia Ni Cristo, Mormons, etc all claim an original Christian church that never believed in Christ's divinity or the Trinity, but this sign serves to be a historical remembrance that we always did.

The reason why I have made this question and why I ended up thinking that this gesture has to be universally expressed by christians is mainly because of my experience with christian cults. I've been to JW's and the Iglesia Ni Cristo services, and they are very frightening and disheartening.. and despite them teaching false things about the Bible and rejecting the divinity, they for some reason end their prayers with "In Jesus' name", the way protestants do.
These cults will never end with the sign of the cross, they will never say "the Father, Son, and HS" because they fully reject the truth of God. Because of this, I feel that the sign of the cross gesture has to be seen as important to protestants as well.

Traditions are slippery slopes to legalism, don’t you ?

FireDragon76 · Jun 11, 2024

nalex1066 said:
Traditions are slippery slopes to legalism, don’t you ?

Jesus participated in traditions, rituals, etc.. He didn't have a problem with them per se. They are only a problem when they prohibit you from loving God and your neighbor.

timewerx · Jun 11, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
The Cross as a universal Christian symbol actually arrived later than most Christians realize, after the end of the Roman repression of Christianity. The Chi-Ro symbol is older, as is the use of the Fish (ichthus, which is an acronym for Iesuos Christos Theou Huios Soter - Jesus Christ Son of God, Savior.

In early Christianity, icons of the Cross were actually used as mockery by non-Christians. Early Christians had a diversity of images for their religion. Jonah being swallowed by a whale was actually common.

You can add boat's anchor to that which is also an earlier Christian symbol. That makes Popeye a proud Christian.

The cross is potentially derived from boat's anchor too. Personally, I think the boat's anchor is the most bad a-- Christian symbol.

It's nearly the same as the modern anchor symbol which I think you can also use in substitute of the fish symbol.

ozso · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
The Bible teaches the Holy Spirit is God. If protestants are following biblical teaching, they should be able to associate the Bible's teaching of the Holy Spirit's divinity means we can pray to him. How can you believe in God and not believe in praying to him at the same time, how can you believe God exists in 3 persons yet say only 1/3 can be prayed to?

When i took lessons of the unitarian restoration cult known as the Iglesia Ni Cristo, the whole "where are the verses that say pray to the Holy Spirit" where raised in their arguments against the doctrine of the trinity, and the fact that the Bible doesn't have prayers to the Holy Spirit is somewhat "evidence" that the Holy Spirit isn't God. JW's made this same argument.

This is one of the reasons why I think the sign of the cross is very important to christians, as it shows that our faith is God is Trinity and this gesture is a historical reminder for our faith because this was used even before Constantine existed (which means it's not a "catholic thingy" as protestants clam).

I don't see it as a matter of that one can't or aren't supposed to or shouldn't. But rather a matter of following the instruction of Jesus and the example of others like Paul. When I pray I say things like Holy Lord and Bleesed Savior. Precious Lord. Holy One. Which can be applied to all Three. But at the same time I feel a distinct Father and son relationship with God.

Bobber · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
Superstition?
I would like to hear from protestants as to why it being "non-biblical" means anything, especially since it's a historic gesture of the faith.

Look if people want to do this you're at liberty to do so.
Problem is what faith or presence of God one thinks they're bringing by doing so? Anything? If it was beneficial it would be in the writings of the Apostles to do this. I'm not saying again one can't do it.....but just like other things.....you can do them but don't think you're receiving some favor from God by so doing. We do other things in culture too....celebrate Christmas.....but if someone made it a rule of faith they'd be out of line. I think it's true that many people do look upon the hand thing making a cross sign yes like a superstition. I've seen ball players pictures do this.....do they think that's going to help? Now about it being a historic gesture of faith......it still would be people in history doing something one is not told to do in scripture. Again I'm not necessarily opposed to it but don't make it a rule of faith over other people's conscience.

FireDragon76 · Jun 11, 2024

timewerx said:
You can add boat's anchor to that which is also an earlier Christian symbol. That makes Popeye a proud Christian.

The cross is potentially derived from boat's anchor too. Personally, I think the boat's anchor is the most bad a-- Christian symbol.

It's nearly the same as the modern anchor symbol which I think you can also use in substitute of the fish symbol.

Yes, I have seen the anchor also. In my church's narthex, there is a charter with an anchor, among other symbols, on a faded sheet of paper with the list of names of the founding members. We also have wooden decorations at the front of the church on either side of the sanctuary, with symbols like the Chi Rho, the Ichthus, or the Alpha and Omega.

Another symbol you sometimes see is IHS. This doesn't mean "In His Service" as some say. It's an abbreviation for the Greek word Iesous, which means Jesus. It's often featured in the center of a cross, as a kind of abstract crucifix. We have a cross like that on our altar.

2PhiloVoid · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"

I wonder why Protestants do not do this? I know that it's not made a rule in scripture, but I feel it's a part of christian history that should never be broken. It shows that our faith was always the Trinity, despite the lies that many cults and other religions claim. For example, Islam, Jehovah's wittness, Iglesia Ni Cristo, Mormons, etc all claim an original Christian church that never believed in Christ's divinity or the Trinity, but this sign serves to be a historical remembrance that we always did.

The reason why I have made this question and why I ended up thinking that this gesture has to be universally expressed by christians is mainly because of my experience with christian cults. I've been to JW's and the Iglesia Ni Cristo services, and they are very frightening and disheartening.. and despite them teaching false things about the Bible and rejecting the divinity, they for some reason end their prayers with "In Jesus' name", the way protestants do.
These cults will never end with the sign of the cross, they will never say "the Father, Son, and HS" because they fully reject the truth of God. Because of this, I feel that the sign of the cross gesture has to be seen as important to protestants as well.

If there's any chance the apostles themselves weren't bothered with it, why should I be? Of course, I firmly believe in the Trinity, but whether we make a gesture signifying the Trinity or we boldly tell people, "I believe in the Trinity, and you should too!!," I'm not seeing the need for what I consider to be "extra" ritual.

But that's me, and I'm an aloof existentialist Christian who feels little need for ritual. However, if you feel making the gesture and affirming the Trinity through that gesture is in some way beneficial or a blessing, then hold onto its importance. I'm not going to tell you to stop doing it. But neither am I going to put up with anyone deprecating my Christian faith in order to bolster their own arguments on what, to me, are philosophically and historically superficial grounds.

In other words, if someone here on CF thinks they're going to slap a "heretic" sticky-note on my forehead, I'd kindly suggest they refrain from doing so .....................................................................................................................................................................................................

d taylor · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
The sign of the cross is more about reminding us that God is trinity, not that Jesus died on the cross. The gesture is in a cross because that is where our faith starts from. Christians throughout the centuries have done this, and it is what makes us christian. The christian cults who deny God being a triune God do not do this gesture, some of them even end their prayers with "in Jesus' name" with none of his divinity attached to their thoughts when saying it. Doing the sign of the cross is a complete statement of our faith that God is Trinity and our salvation is from the Father, Son and HS.

To me, the refusal to do the gesture makes the protestant closer to the heretics than to the christians of the early centuries. The JW's, INC, Mormons, etc do not mirror the early christians (as much as they claim) and you know they will not do the sign of the cross because they reject the fullness of God, why are protestants allowing their prayers to share similarities with these false prophet made cults?

-

Why do you need reminding of The Trinity. For me this is an unforgettable area of God.

FireDragon76 · Jun 11, 2024

d taylor said:
-

Why do you need reminding of The Trinity. For me this is an unforgettable area of God.

It's an embodied practice or form of prayer that is different from intellectualization.

Maria Billingsley · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"

I wonder why Protestants do not do this? I know that it's not made a rule in scripture, but I feel it's a part of christian history that should never be broken. It shows that our faith was always the Trinity, despite the lies that many cults and other religions claim. For example, Islam, Jehovah's wittness, Iglesia Ni Cristo, Mormons, etc all claim an original Christian church that never believed in Christ's divinity or the Trinity, but this sign serves to be a historical remembrance that we always did.

The reason why I have made this question and why I ended up thinking that this gesture has to be universally expressed by christians is mainly because of my experience with christian cults. I've been to JW's and the Iglesia Ni Cristo services, and they are very frightening and disheartening.. and despite them teaching false things about the Bible and rejecting the divinity, they for some reason end their prayers with "In Jesus' name", the way protestants do.
These cults will never end with the sign of the cross, they will never say "the Father, Son, and HS" because they fully reject the truth of God. Because of this, I feel that the sign of the cross gesture has to be seen as important to protestants as well.

So it is clear for everyone, it is the physical gesture shown in here.

Maria Billingsley · Jun 11, 2024

d taylor said:
-

Well i really see no reason to. Jesus' work on the cross is finished. Personally I also can see how in many ways the cross can become more important than Jesus. The cross gives no one God's free gift of Eternal Life. It is belief in The Person Jesus which gives people God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

The cross was the method used in Jesus' horrible death. I do not even have crosses as a possession, I just do not see the need.

I want to focus on telling people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, by belief in Jesus.

Interesting. I can't bring myself to wear or even display a cross. Whenever I see someone wearing a cross I always ask myself the motivation behind it. I feel the same as you. The cross represts death to me. He has brought us Living Waters, He gave us His Holy Spirit which is displayed through the fruits in our lives. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is no longer on that cross we now bare our own cross.

Matthew

Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”

Sorry off topic.

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

nalex1066 said:
Traditions are slippery slopes to legalism, don’t you ?

Honestly, i think abandoning of certain traditions are slippery slopes to cults.. or were building blocks of them.

eleos1954 · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"

I wonder why Protestants do not do this? I know that it's not made a rule in scripture, but I feel it's a part of christian history that should never be broken. It shows that our faith was always the Trinity, despite the lies that many cults and other religions claim. For example, Islam, Jehovah's wittness, Iglesia Ni Cristo, Mormons, etc all claim an original Christian church that never believed in Christ's divinity or the Trinity, but this sign serves to be a historical remembrance that we always did.

The reason why I have made this question and why I ended up thinking that this gesture has to be universally expressed by christians is mainly because of my experience with christian cults. I've been to JW's and the Iglesia Ni Cristo services, and they are very frightening and disheartening.. and despite them teaching false things about the Bible and rejecting the divinity, they for some reason end their prayers with "In Jesus' name", the way protestants do.
These cults will never end with the sign of the cross, they will never say "the Father, Son, and HS" because they fully reject the truth of God. Because of this, I feel that the sign of the cross gesture has to be seen as important to protestants as well.

There's nothing in the Bible calling for Christians to make the sign of the cross. It's a ritual invented by Catholics.

Why don't protestants make the sign of the Cross?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

✦

✦

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

the village i--o--t--

Active Member

Well-Known Member

the village i--o--t--

✦

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Matthew​

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency

Matthew