Why don't protestants bless Mary?

[bbbbbbb]

Yes they are, to bring their judgement, rather than blessings

You must have a modern translation of the Bible that I lack. You probably have this between the lines of the text. However, to be quite clear, this is the verse you posted -
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

I think you probably are reading the following into it -

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and (deliver those holy saints who are praying to us and thus) avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[Albion]

Yes they are, to bring their judgement, rather than blessings

Well, no.

If we read that passage carefully, we do not find anything that says that they are praying for anyone in particular on Earth, answering that person's prayers, or interceding with God on his behalf.

 

[Panevino]

I was responding to a query about why would someone pray in heaven?
The martyrs do in that example regarding people on earth.

 

[Albion]

Yep. I see that you are correct about that. I was thrown off by the comment of a third poster. Sorry. The saints don't act as intermediaries in response to our petitions, but we are given to believe that they do pray.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I was responding to a query about why would someone pray in heaven?
The martyrs do in that example regarding people on earth.

Really? Which version of the version do you believe to be accurate - the one you actually quoted or the one in which you have inserted this additional thought?

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and (deliver those holy saints who are praying to us and thus) avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[Panevino]

Really? Which version of the version do you believe to be accurate - the one you actually quoted or the one in which you have inserted this additional thought?

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and (deliver those holy saints who are praying to us and thus) avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

They are in heaven praying to God about people on earth.
I'm not suggesting anything more in this case

 

[bbbbbbb]

They are in heaven praying to God about people on earth.
I'm not suggesting anything more in this case

You might make your argument, but you do so without the scriptural support you claim for it. As such, your argument has no basis whatsoever in scripture.

 

[Albion]

They are in heaven praying to God about people on earth.
I'm not suggesting anything more in this case

They are "praying...about people on earth" is quite a bit different from the claim that saints hear our individual petitions and intercede with God on behalf of the petitioner, though, I hope you'd agree.

 

[Panevino]

You might make your argument, but you do so without the scriptural support you claim for it. As such, your argument has no basis whatsoever in scripture.

Wait what?
What are the martyrs praying about to God? Is it people on earth or not?

 

[Albion]

Wait what?
What are the martyrs praying about to God? Is it people on earth or not?

I'll say it again, then.

We have reason to believe that the saints pray to God for mankind. They know that there are billions of people on earth and that we mortals are in need of God's love and help.

However, we cannot assume, in the absence of any Scriptural support, that they hear the petitions of individual Christians directed to them or that they intercede with the Father as requested by such individuals. That's why "praying to the dead/saints/martyrs/etc" is both wrong and useless.

 

[Bryan G]

I apologize for taking this thread on this tangent of soul-sleep. If you would like to discuss this further I recommend that you start a new thread in General Theology.

This is right on topic "Why don't protestants bless Mary?". This is directly related, it's part of the answer, we don't bless Mary or ask her to be blessed because she is dead and that brings up the topic, what is death.
She was blessed, she was a most blessed woman, I do not deny that.

EDIT:
I'm sorry, this isn't what you meant. Thanks for suggesting starting a new thread but I posted all the verses, and said all I can. I also seen your point of view. Soul sleep isn't a salvation issue, so I'm going to leave it as is, I don't want to cause strife with you over a non-salvation issue. This whole thing with Marry, can be a salvation issue, and if the catholics who pray (or whatever they want to call it) to Mary understood that there is no way she could hear them, it could make them re-think the matter and maybe turn to God. That is why I brought it up.

 

[Job8]

You can quote any prayer you like. Any properly catechized Catholic knows that Mary can do nothing on her own. The only thing she can do is pray and ask that God do it.

Not according to the prayers quoted (and many more similar prayers could be quoted). For Catholics who pray to her, she is Divine. And therein lies a very serious problem.

 

[Meowzltov]

Yes, she was blessed. She carried and gave birth to Jesus, she was able to spend time with Jesus. All who were with him while he walked the earth were blessed.

It never says to talk to her, and definitely does not say to put her ahead of God like the Consecration to Mary does:
"My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you;"
This is worship, you are supposed to give yourself to God. the Consecration to Mary is evil, of the devil, it's worship, entirely to Mary, nothing left for God.
This is the problem with the catholic church, they take one verse out of the Bible, misinterpret it, then make a whole doctrine out of it. Open you're eyes, God made you, and he wants you, your entire self, all of you. Exodus 34:14 says he's a jealous God. God is a jealous God, and when you say "Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you" you anger God.

Think about this, why am I here? Why am I showing what God's word says? I care, and I don't want to see people fall. Whether you believe what he Bible says or not, doesn't make any difference in my life, but it does in yours.

I just don't think there is anything wrong with the veneration of the saints, especially the Mother of our Lord. It is absurd to say there is nothing left for God -- there is worship left for God.

We Catholics are NOT sola scriptura. The church has the authority to guide us in our understanding of things. The church is the pillar and foundation of truth per 1 tim 3:15.

 

[Aldebaran]

I just don't think there is anything wrong with the veneration of the saints, especially the Mother of our Lord. It is absurd to say there is nothing left for God -- there is worship left for God.

We Catholics are NOT sola scriptura. The church has the authority to guide us in our understanding of things. The church is the pillar and foundation of truth per 1 tim 3:15.

What if the church starts telling you that things the bible tells us are sins are no longer sins? Which do we believe? As for me, I don't want to stand before God having to explain that I disobeyed what He said in His word because the church's opinion was of more importance to me.

 

[Meowzltov]

So you don't agree with the Bible, God's word.

Did I say that? No, you pulled it out of nowhere.

The overwhelming majority of the Christian world does not believe in soul sleep, and we disagree for a reason--the Bible teaches heaven and hell. I'm not going to go into it with you, because it is clear you are set in your own mind, and I don't consider it a big deal.

 

[seashale76]

That's not in God's word, God's word says "the dead in Christ shall rise first" 1 Thessalonians 4:16
My mother died when I was born, so you are saying God abandoned her because she died? That is foolish.

Was your mother a nonbeliever when she died? If so, God didn't abandon her. It works the other way around. I'm going to give you the same advice I gave the other poster. You really need to hit the 'click to expand' tab and read the scriptures I posted.

 

[seashale76]

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't make it true.
It is NOWHERE in scripture. I know the Bible, I've read it many times, and the hail Mary is NOT in the Bible, it's only in your head, you've been brainwashed. The only thing in the Bible about this is that her womb is blessed, nothing more. Nowhere does the Bible say anything about Mary hearing you doing whatever it is you want to call it after she died. Nowhere is there an example of anyone asking Mary to intercede for them while she was alive. Nowhere does the Bible mention anything about asking someone in heaven to pray for anyone, nowhwere.
I do read the Bible, show me one verse that says Mary can do what you claim now that she's dead.
(I keep asking this) Show one verse that says we are to do this, or can do this.
Show me where it says people that die go straight to heaven or hell.
You know what, forget it, you'll just post another bunch of verses that are not related and claim it's proof.
You posted a lot of verses, but not one backed up anything you claim. You don't understand the Bible.

Yea, sometime people will ask others to pray for them, but you make is a necessity. Nowhere is this said to be done in the Bible, nowhere does the Bible ever say to use Mary to "relay" your prayers, yet it's the biggest part of your religion, biggest part of your lives.

If you want to pray, why wouldn't you just pray to God directly as Jesus told us to do? Jesus taught us to pray to God in his sermon on the mount. "Our father", he taught us to pray directly to God. He didn't say "sometimes", or once in a while, he said Matthew 6:9 Pray then like this, Our Father in heaven.
I think I know the answer, it's because there is no personal relationship with God, most catholics have no personal relationship, most are actually scared of God, so they feel they need someone else to pray for them, kinda like hiding behind Mary. Me, I have the Holy Spirit with me, in me, part of God with me, and I can talk to him as a friend all day long, any time, all the time, while driving, studying, riding my bike. This is something the catholic church avoids teaching, many protestant church's also avoid teaching this, you need to learn how it is to have the God with you. That is what the Holy Spirit is, part of God, with us. You don't need a dead person to intercede, because if you have the Holy Spirit, God is right here with you, feeling your pain, feeling your joys, guiding you, comforting you, listening to you, watching your accomplishments and failures. I wish everyone could understand how wonderful this is. It's my prayer that everyone gets this. You can hear his guidance, you can feel his presence, you can feel his comfort, you know he's with you.
This is the biggest message in the New Testament was for us to show Jesus in us. He said, Revelation 3:20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me." If Jesus is in you, why would you need Mary?
The more I think about it, I think that's it, the need for Mary is to fill the void Where God should be. All the time spent talking to Mary is time that should be spent with God. If Mary was alive today, she would surely be appalled by all the time people spend talking to here when they should be talking to God.
But I could be wrong...

And why would I want to have a saint pray for me when according to the Bible, I am a saint, all God's children are saints:

If you know the scriptures, then you know that our God is the God of the living and not the dead. Christ defeated sin and death. Those who die in Christ are alive. They're not dead. If you're claiming the saints are dead, then you're calling God a liar.

 

[seashale76]

Why would Mary need to pray if she is with God?

Why does the book of Revelation mention the saints praying before the throne of God?

 

[Meowzltov]

OK, so Mary is blessed.

So is Abraham, and all of us who believe in Christ Jesus for salvation.

So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Abraham was not blessed among all generations.

28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Of course, our blessing means we walk in the way of God. The only greater blessing than this is to obtain heaven. But Mary has THIS blessing PLUS her unique blessing for having said YES to God and thus directly helping to have brought salvation into the world. For that, we honor her in a way that no other believer is honored.

 

[Meowzltov]

Why would Mary need to pray if she is with God?

She prays for us just as the saints in heaven prayed in Revelation. Rev 8:4