Why doesn't God just tell us which denomination is right?

[BobRyan]

And the ultimate outcome of that debate was this ...

John 4

21 Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

What He did not say is "your worship of what you don't know does not matter".

He told her that "salvation is of the jews" and in so doing - informed her that clinging to a stubborn rejection of the fact that God had setup the Jews and Jerusalem and that it was from them that the Messiah would come - she would not have salvation.

There is no such thing as "worship God in Spirit and in Truth" while stubbornly rejecting Truth or "Worship God in spirit but not in Truth".

John 17:17 "sanctify them in Thy Truth - Thy WORD is Truth"

In vain do they worship Me teaching for doctrine the "Commandments of men" - Mark 7:6-13

That's not what was going on here. She was not stubbornly rejecting the fact that God would bring salvation through the Jews.

I did not say she was -- I said that Jesus informs her of the seriousness of rejecting the fact that the Jews had the true religion when He said "salvation is of the Jews".

What a perfect example of a "debate over religions" and Jesus pointing to one as actually being right "salvation is of the Jews"..

Imagine if God were to say to day "salvation is of the methodists".

 

[BobRyan]

What He did not say is "your worship of what you don't know does not matter".

He told her that "salvation is of the jews" and in so doing - informed her that clinging to a stubborn rejection of the fact that God had setup the Jews and Jerusalem and that it was from them that the Messiah would come - she would not have salvation.

There is no such thing as "worship God in Spirit and in Truth" while stubbornly rejecting Truth or "Worship God in spirit but not in Truth".

John 17:17 "sanctify them in Thy Truth - Thy WORD is Truth"

In vain do they worship Me teaching for doctrine the "Commandments of men" - Mark 7:6-13

What is rather ironic is that the "they" Jesus was refering to in that sentence are......................the Jews.

At least "some" Jews. Not Mary, Martha, Peter, James, John... John the baptizer etc

Still when debating religions with the Samaritans the answer was clear "salvation is of the Jews"

 

[BobRyan]

But that doesn't answer MY question. Quoting Scripture can be tricky. For instance, how do you KNOW that the Remnant is NOT the Catholic-Orthodox Church? You can quote Scripture all you want, but there is no way that you can PROVE that the Catholic-Orthodox Churches is the anti-Christ's church, or that the Reformation churches are the one True Church that God ordained to be the perfect church that He wants every one to attend.

It is Catholics themselves that start the Reformation - saying that the Bible does not agree with some of the traditions of the RCC.

 

[BobRyan]

it would, but He didn't..

Indeed He did and many examples were given from the Bible of Him doing that very thing

================ as we saw in this exchange.

Seems like it would help us out a lot if God told everybody, "The Calvinists are right" (Or whichever denomination).

So many false teachings would be disproven in an instant, everybody would know which Church best aligns with God & His word...

So why not?

Been there.. done that.

BTW I assume you do not mean that one denomination is saved and all others lost. Christ said in John 16 "I have many more things to tell you but you cannot bear them now" so then having less understanding of truth does not of itself make one lost. It is rejection of truth that does that.

I assume you mean "if God would come to Earth in the modern age and tell us " (-- maybe in the form of some prophet?) which denomination had no doctrinal error -- and so all others by comparison had at least one doctrine to be corrected... wouldn't that be helpful?"

Which of course groups like the Seventh-day Adventists claim He did that very thing.

And did that "solve the question" for "Everyone"?

No. We still have the divisions.

God told Noah that his religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told Moses and all Israel at Sinai that their religion was correct -- but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told John the baptizer the Messiah he pointed to was the right one.

Christ told His disciples that He was God the Son and that their religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

These supernatural events were indeed reported - but most people rejected that report.

Seventh-day Adventist will tell you of that same supernatural event within their own denomination - but that does not "settle it" for all who hear of it.

.

 

[BobRyan]

You may consider that to be irrefutable, Bob, but is that because it is undecipherable?

scripture much easier to read and see for the unbiased objective readers -- than many had hoped.

 

[Strong in Him]

Salvation is of, or from, the Jews because Jesus was a Jew, descended from Jews and salvation is through HIM alone.

Salvation is not from keeping the Jewish law.

 

[BobRyan]

Salvation is of, or from, the Jews because Jesus was a Jew, descended from Jews and salvation is through HIM alone.

Salvation is not from keeping the Jewish law.

The Jews had the right Bible, right priesthood setup by God at Sinai, the right prophets, the right temple - the right religion.

Christ was clear in debating the point with someone of another religion "salvation is of the Jews" and did not say "salvation is of THIS Jew" because although that would have been true - HE was making the point about the two religions.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Indeed He did and many examples were given from the Bible of Him doing that very thing

OK,

So what is the denomination that scripture says we should all be members of?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

At least "some" Jews. Not Mary, Martha, Peter, James, John... John the baptizer etc

Still when debating religions with the Samaritans the answer was clear "salvation is of the Jews"

Never said all the Jews. Salvation Was from the Jews but now no longer is same as when Jesus speaks of his death, that is now past.

 

[Monk Brendan]

It is so much more satisfying to realize that all of that is over and now history.

Oh? When was that schism healed? Nobody told me anything about it!!

If you think that just claiming that something is now all over and history is fine, if no one looks up the facts, and they find that you're just whistling in the dark. But NONE of the reformers have ever been accepted by Rome OR Constantinople. So until YOU are willing to embrace one of the "heresies," either Rome or Constantinople, you will have to cling very hard to that wishful thinking to get to heaven.

 

[Monk Brendan]

It is Catholics themselves that start the Reformation - saying that the Bible does not agree with some of the traditions of the RCC.

WRONG! Where is that exact statement? Because Catholics and Orthodox both believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Please show me, in context, from a Catholic or Orthodox source, that anyone of any AUTHORITY has said that the Bible does not agree with the traditions of ANY of the Pre-Reformation Churches. You won't be able to do it!

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
It is Catholics themselves that start the Reformation - saying that the Bible does not agree with some of the traditions of the RCC.

WRONG! Where is that exact statement? Because Catholics and Orthodox both believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Please show me, in context, from a Catholic or Orthodox source, that anyone of any AUTHORITY has said that the Bible does not agree with the traditions of ANY of the Pre-Reformation Churches.

Catholics such as Wycliffe, Jerome, Huss, Luther, Calvin come to mind.

Did you think they were "born as Protestants"??

 

[BobRyan]

it would, but He didn't..

Indeed He did and many examples were given from the Bible of Him doing that very thing

================ as we saw in this exchange.

Seems like it would help us out a lot if God told everybody, "The Calvinists are right" (Or whichever denomination).

So many false teachings would be disproven in an instant, everybody would know which Church best aligns with God & His word...

So why not?

Been there.. done that.

BTW I assume you do not mean that one denomination is saved and all others lost. Christ said in John 16 "I have many more things to tell you but you cannot bear them now" so then having less understanding of truth does not of itself make one lost. It is rejection of truth that does that.

I assume you mean "if God would come to Earth in the modern age and tell us " (-- maybe in the form of some prophet?) which denomination had no doctrinal error -- and so all others by comparison had at least one doctrine to be corrected... wouldn't that be helpful?"

Which of course groups like the Seventh-day Adventists claim He did that very thing.

And did that "solve the question" for "Everyone"?

No. We still have the divisions.

God told Noah that his religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told Moses and all Israel at Sinai that their religion was correct -- but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told John the baptizer the Messiah he pointed to was the right one.

Christ told His disciples that He was God the Son and that their religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

These supernatural events were indeed reported - but most people rejected that report.

Seventh-day Adventist will tell you of that same supernatural event within their own denomination - but that does not "settle it" for all who hear of it.

.

OK,

So what is the denomination that scripture says we should all be members of?

Is that how you read the examples given?

 

[BobRyan]

Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.[/QUOTE]

now where in any of this that you wrote did you find the answer to the OPs question of which denomination was the correct one?

The OP does not ask "which one is the right one"

The OP asks if we all agree that it would be helpful if God told us

Never said all the Jews. Salvation Was from the Jews but now no longer is same as when Jesus speaks of his death, that is now past.

Jesus did not say "some Jews think there is a temple in Jerusalem".
The Samaritan woman did not say "some Samaritans worship in this mountain".

Nor did they say "I am the only Jew who thinks there is a temple in Jerusalem" or "I am the only Samaritan that thinks we are to worship in this mountain".

The text itself shows this to be a comparison of the two religions themselves.

Obviously.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Indeed He did and many examples were given from the Bible of Him doing that very thing

================ as we saw in this exchange.








Is that how you read the examples given?

that's a mighty fine non-answer you got there..

 

[BobRyan]

that's a mighty fine non-answer you got there..

On the contrary - I gave many examples of God -- telling us which religion is correct all through history.

details matter.

I show that each time He does it - the majority ignore what He says.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

On the contrary - I gave many examples of God -- telling us which religion is correct all through history.

details matter.

I show that each time He does it - the majority ignore what He says.

you gave us examples of something, but not what we're actually discussing.

saying the answer is Jesus is like someone losing their keys in their house and you telling them you know where they are...they're in the house. doesn't do us much good.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Oh? When was that schism healed? Nobody told me anything about it!!

I have no idea what you are talking about? What schism? Since when is any schism healing a sign of anything from the Bible. You missed my statement by a mile.

If you think that just claiming that something is now all over and history is fine, if no one looks up the facts, and they find that you're just whistling in the dark.

A polite humble person would have asked why I think that.

But NONE of the reformers have ever been accepted by Rome OR Constantinople.

No they weren’t. They were murdered instead.

So until YOU are willing to embrace one of the "heresies," either Rome or Constantinople, you will have to cling very hard to that wishful thinking to get to heaven.

Lost me here too. I know the owner personally so I have no worries.

 

[BobRyan]

that's a mighty fine non-answer you got there..

On the contrary - I gave many examples of God -- telling us which religion is correct all through history.

details matter.

I show that each time He does it - the majority ignore what He says.

you gave us examples of something, but not what we're actually discussing.

saying the answer is Jesus is like someone losing their keys in their house and you telling them you know where they are...they're in the house. doesn't do us much good.

Here is the title: Why doesn't God just tell us which denomination is right?

My answer was "God has done that many times"

Here is the OP

Seems like it would help us out a lot if God told everybody, "The Calvinists are right" (Or whichever denomination).

So many false teachings would be disproven in an instant, everybody would know which Church best aligns with God & His word...

So why not?

God telling man which denomination is right - is the subject. And the question is in the form "why doesn't God tell us?"

My answer -- is that the Bible and history indicate that He has done that very thing many times.

I then give - a few examples.

Been there.. done that.

BTW I assume you do not mean that one denomination is saved and all others lost. Christ said in John 16 "I have many more things to tell you but you cannot bear them now" so then having less understanding of truth does not of itself make one lost. It is rejection of truth that does that.

I assume you mean "if God would come to Earth in the modern age and tell us " (-- maybe in the form of some prophet?) which denomination had no doctrinal error -- and so all others by comparison had at least one doctrine to be corrected... wouldn't that be helpful?"

Which of course groups like the Seventh-day Adventists claim He did that very thing.

And did that "solve the question" for "Everyone"?

No. We still have the divisions.

God told Noah that his religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told Moses and all Israel at Sinai that their religion was correct -- but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told John the baptizer the Messiah he pointed to was the right one.

Christ told His disciples that He was God the Son and that their religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

These supernatural events were indeed reported - but most people rejected that report.

Seventh-day Adventist will tell you of that same supernatural event within their own denomination - but that does not "settle it" for all who hear of it.

And I then detail one of those --

Like this -

Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.

The OP does not ask "which one is the right one" -- AND it does not ask the reader to guess which one is the right one.

The OP asks if we all agree that it would be helpful if God told us

 

[BobRyan]

Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.

The OP does not ask "which one is the right one"

The OP asks if we all agree that it would be helpful if God told us.

I point out that God has done that in history - many times and one example is that incident in John 4 as quoted above.

you gave us examples of something, but not what we're actually discussing.

saying the answer is Jesus is like someone losing their keys in their house and you telling them you know where they are...they're in the house. doesn't do us much good.

In the example above I do not say "the right religion is Jesus"... Jesus does not do that either -- though as you point out He "could have"... but didn't.

Instead he contrasts the Jewish religion with the Samaritan one just as the woman at the well did - He gave a direct answer to a direct question.

Details matter.

What I say is that in John 4 we have an example of Jesus in a debate over religions and He states flat out "salvation is of the Jews"