Why does the police brutality of a counterfeiting drug addict mean more workplace discrimination?

[civilwarbuff]

They really look at a man with his knee on someone's neck and think there is nothing wrong it.

I don't think anyone here has said that so maybe stop accusing people of it. I certainly agree it was excessive force; I certainly agree that once the complaint of not being able to breathe was made there should have been an effort to correct that. However, I do believe that the level of fentanyl in Floyd's system was the primary contributing factor to his death as respiratory depression is one of the primary symptoms for fentanyl OD (see #58). IF the police had naloxone available that could have bought him time until EMT's arrived.

 

[civilwarbuff]

He did not have an acute intoxication of fentanyl, the amount in his system was not fatal. You had experts testimony on this very subject:

Video: Toxicologist testifies on drug levels in George Floyd’s system compared to DUI cases

This is the problem with denialism, they ignore the facts, and sadly all to defend murder.

From post #58 (had you bothered to read the link......
"If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3," Baker told investigators.

In another new document, Baker said, "That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

But then Baker added, "I am not saying this killed him."
New court docs say George Floyd had "fatal level" of fentanyl in his system

Respiratory depression and brain hypoxia induced by opioid drugs: Morphine, oxycodone, heroin, and fentanyl - PubMed

You were saying?
But if the evidence does not convince you I am certain I cannot.......

 

[The Barbarian]

Homicide does not mean murder

Right. It merely means that Chauvin killed him. The court had to determine if that amounted to murder or not.

It did.

and the coroner never arrived at any such conclusion.

Not his place to conclude that. He merely confirmed that Chauvin killed him. A jury of his peers found that it was murder.

Suicide is also a homicide;

But it's not murder. Only some killings are murders. Intent matters, and that's up to a jury.

2 car accident with fatality is also a homicide.

And might be a murder in some states. There is DUI murder.

Homicide is killing a person. Murder is unlawfully killing a person with intent or recklessness that amounts to intent.

Hansen, who gave evidence sporting her dress uniform and detailed her advanced EMT training said: "There was a man being killed. I would have been able to provide medical attention to the best of my abilities. And this human was denied that right.


"That's exactly what I should have done. There was no medical assistance on the scene and I could have given (it)."


Hansen described the distressing incident while wiping tears from her eyes.


She continued, "The officers were leaning over his body with what appeared to be the majority of their weight on him.


"He wasn't moving, he was cuffed and three grown men putting all their weight on somebody – that's too much."


She told Frank: "Chauvin seemed very comfortable with the majority of his weight balanced on top of Mr Floyd's neck. In my memory he had his hand in his pocket.
...
The 27-year-old explained she became concerned by Floyd's "altered level of consciousness" and his face being "smooshed" into the ground.


"I noticed some fluid coming from what looked like George Floyd's body and a lot of time we see a patient release their bladder when they die - that's where my mind went.


"He wasn't moving. He was restrained but he wasn't moving."


Hansen is featured in a video from the scene of Floyd's murder, showing her appeal to the officers to let her help, while filming the events herself.


One clip shows her make her own 911 call, telling the operator: "I literally just watched police officers not take a pulse and not to do anything to save a man and I am a first responder myself and I literally have it on video."


She is the third witness who "called the police on the police", alongside emergency service dispatcher Jena Scury and Donald Williams.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/261247...dge-blasts-genevieve-hansen-arguing-attorney/

You've assumed that a homicide can't be a murder. But as in this case, it often is. BTW, the fentanyl excuse won't fly:

One of the major characteristics that the respondents described was the speed of a fentanyl overdose: Seventy-five percent of the respondents said that the symptoms occurred within seconds to minutes.
Here's What Happens During a Fentanyl Overdose | Live Science

The timeline just won't accommodate that story.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Right. It merely means that Chauvin killed him. The court had to determine if that amounted to murder or not.

Wrong Barb, the fentanyl could have killed him and by extension that would have been his dealer.

He merely confirmed that Chauvin killed him.

Based on what evidence Barb?......because you say so?

Hansen, who gave evidence sporting her dress uniform and detailed her advanced EMT training said: "There was a man being killed. I would have been able to provide medical attention to the best of my abilities. And this human was denied that right.

"That's exactly what I should have done. There was no medical assistance on the scene and I could have given (it)."

And she did exactly what?......Nothing?......just stood there?.....being an EMT did she not have an obligation to act? Should she not be held accountable along with the other police officers who did not act?

One of the major characteristics that the respondents described was the speed of a fentanyl overdose: Seventy-five percent of the respondents said that the symptoms occurred within seconds to minutes.
Here's What Happens During a Fentanyl Overdose | Live Science

Barb, he SWALLOWED the fentanyl not injected it......do you not understand how the digestive system works?......do you not understand that swallowing a drug takes more time to be absorbed into the body than IV injections?

I am done talking with you. You either do not have the faintest idea of the science behind this case or you are simply intentionally misrepresenting the evidence. Either way, we are done.

 

[The Barbarian]

Wrong Barb, the fentanyl could have killed him and by extension that would have been his dealer.

Sorry, that story won't fly. Fentanyl overdose takes hold in minutes or seconds. It won't fit the timeline, and it also was ruled out by two coroners.

Based on what evidence Barb?......because you say so?

Because the coroners said so. For some reason, they get more credibility than the rest of us. Go figure.

And she did exactly what?......Nothing?......just stood there?.....being an EMT did she not have an obligation to act?

Because the police who were killing him, refused to let her help him.

being an EMT did she not have an obligation to act?

Depends on the state. But in any case, the fact that the police refused her request to save his life, means she is not responsible for the death.

Barb, he SWALLOWED the fentanyl not injected it......do you not understand how the digestive system works?

Perhaps you don't. Swallowed opiods form a bezoar in the stomach, which would have been obvious on autopsy.

Should she not be held accountable along with the other police officers who did not act?

Since she attempted to prevent the killing and the police refused to let her, no.

I am done talking with you. You either do not have the faintest idea of the science behind this case

I'm guessing you never had to deal with such a medical emergency. I was a medic in the AF, and those turned up in the OR every now and then. The process for ingested opiods is not what you suppose it is.

or you are simply intentionally misrepresenting the evidence. Either way, we are done.

I get that this is a very difficult issue for you. And I'm not unsympathetic. But there are facts you'll need to accommodate if you want to learn anything from it.

 

[Gary987]

I'm talking about George Floyd, and the fact that the 'black community' gets more hiring and promotion preferences than ever before, as they demand an extortionist style 'payback' for the life of one man who was far from a model citizen. Was he a career oriented individual, trying to get ahead, or a self-made entrepreneur? For goodness sakes, he was suspected of passing counterfeit money in a convenience store, and that's what prompted the calling of police to begin with! Was he looking to get hired and promoted somewhere when he couldn't even pass a drug screen? Did police keep him from doing that before he died? What does George Floyd have to do with racial inequality in hiring? Was he sending out a bunch of resumes and no one would interview or hire him? Guess what, that happens to people of other races too, due to age discrimination, lack of qualifications, or whatever. The answer is no, he wasn't. Even if he were, what would an unfortunate act of police abuse have to do with him becoming the poster child for quota hiring and promotion for an entire race who had nothing to do with the incident? If George Floyd were the same man, but white, latino, or asian, would there be an outcry for more whites, latinos, or asians to be hired, as if that would cut down on the number of George Floyds in the world?

Today, big bank executives are proudly testifying before the U.S. Senate, bragging about all the racial discrimination they've invoked in their companies after the death of George Floyd. This is a circus of political grandstanding by a group of politicians who have said, "you'd better hire and promote who we tell you to or we're going to drag you before Congress and hold you accountable." They've turned an unemployed drug addict and counterfeiter into a martyr to gain an advantage in workplaces everywhere. The two subjects have nothing to with each other. They're practicing 'strike while the iron is hot' and it's ALL political. As the well known politician once said, "don't let a crisis go to waste." Threatening to burn down cities unless a certain group gets advantages in the workplace is nothing short of extortion.

 

[The Barbarian]

So you really don't care about the truth

Two coroners and one review agreed it was a homicide. That's the truth. Whether you care or not, it's still there.

As Reagan once observed, "facts are stubborn things."

 

[Joy]

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[Salvadore]

Some people who live in poverty become criminals. Some people live in poverty because they do not have a well-paying job. Some black people think they are passed over for well-paying jobs because of their skin color. When George Floyd was killed by a white police officer all of these situations came into play. Do poor black people have the same chance as a poor white person? No. Not in my opinion. People should get jobs based on their abilities.

 

[The Barbarian]

This murder tipped the balance for America, and it's never going back to the way it was before. For better or worse, that's the reality. And whether it's better or worse depends on how we deal with the ugly truth it laid bare for us.

 

[Salvadore]

I'm talking about George Floyd, and the fact that the 'black community' gets more hiring and promotion preferences than ever before, as they demand an extortionist style 'payback' for the life of one man who was far from a model citizen. Was he a career oriented individual, trying to get ahead, or a self-made entrepreneur? For goodness sakes, he was suspected of passing counterfeit money in a convenience store, and that's what prompted the calling of police to begin with! Was he looking to get hired and promoted somewhere when he couldn't even pass a drug screen? Did police keep him from doing that before he died? What does George Floyd have to do with racial inequality in hiring? Was he sending out a bunch of resumes and no one would interview or hire him? Guess what, that happens to people of other races too, due to age discrimination, lack of qualifications, or whatever. The answer is no, he wasn't. Even if he were, what would an unfortunate act of police abuse have to do with him becoming the poster child for quota hiring and promotion for an entire race who had nothing to do with the incident? If George Floyd were the same man, but white, latino, or asian, would there be an outcry for more whites, latinos, or asians to be hired, as if that would cut down on the number of George Floyds in the world?

Today, big bank executives are proudly testifying before the U.S. Senate, bragging about all the racial discrimination they've invoked in their companies after the death of George Floyd. This is a circus of political grandstanding by a group of politicians who have said, "you'd better hire and promote who we tell you to or we're going to drag you before Congress and hold you accountable." They've turned an unemployed drug addict and counterfeiter into a martyr to gain an advantage in workplaces everywhere. The two subjects have nothing to with each other. They're practicing 'strike while the iron is hot' and it's ALL political. As the well known politician once said, "don't let a crisis go to waste." Threatening to burn down cities unless a certain group gets advantages in the workplace is nothing short of extortion.

 

[Salvadore]

Perhaps you could walk a mile in their shoes. When a person is raised in poverty, they have likely experienced hunger. When you are hungry, you might steal. You start out stealing food. Then, you go to school. Your clothes are different from the other children. Maybe you do not have money for lunch. Hungry people cannot learn as well. Maybe your parents sell drugs for money. I have visited the projects. The projects do not feel safe to me. Perhaps you could spend a week with a family who lives in the projects. You could share a meal with them. Talk with the adults who grew up in poverty. Reach out. Learn. Then, repost . I am friends with a man who grew up in a tent during the Great Depression. He never had enough to eat. He stole. His parents told him to never ask for money because they had none. Was his father a bum? No. My friend wore funny clothes to school. He only felt normal when someone recognized he had athletic ability and gave him a uniform to play football. He joined lots of sports because he looked like others with his uniform. Fortunately, his parents were not into drugs. He joined the USAF when he graduated. He pulled himself up. He did well for himself. He is white. He worked one job where he was never promoted. Why? They thought he was Hispanic! When they learned he was not Hispanic, he became successful. All I am asking is that you open your eyes. Listen. Experience. Do not be quick to judge. When you come up with an answer, please let us know.

 

[Salvadore]

PS. I am not a democrat. And, I am white. People must love one another as God intended. Visit a black church. Listen to what black people struggle with. Step out of your comfort zone. Gentrification has pushed black people from their homes. Educate yourself. Read books about Native Americans and how they are being pushed out because they live on property with lots of natural resources. Open your eyes and your heart. My 94 year old mother was pushed by a black woman recently. We forgave her and are praying for her. The situation is going to get worse until we love and try to understand each other.