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MorkandMindy

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'He who owns the media writes the news.'

Reading papers and watching TV are easy and become habits. I don't think anyone would bet anything on the accuracy of either, but particularly for the old they give a feeling of still 'being there' of still being involved in life despite not working or actually Occupying Wall St., but a sort of feeling that they are somehow contributing to something or affecting something in some sort of way.

But there is actually a problem, people are gullible, far more gullible than they think.
 

MorkandMindy

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For example try the psychologists test of word association.

Which country goes with 'terrorism'. A surprising number would have said 'Iran'. That is, would say 'Iran' outside the annual hate N. Korea season, right now it might be N. Korea.

Now give an example of a terrorist act Iran has committed. Well there is one, holding members of the US embassy hostage for the release of Iranian funds. And, well there is one other, bombing Pan Am flight 103, Lockerbie in response to the US shooting down an Iranian airliner. That's about it. In reality Iran is well ahead of Andorra.
 
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Rajni

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I really have no use for the news. It's way too easy for it to have been made up entirely, if not simply skewed to play on my heart-strings a certain way. I see it as a manipulation device, plain and simple, to get public opinion to 'stampede' in a desired direction.

Besides, if I really needed / wanted to know what was going on in Timbuktu, I would be living in Timbuktu. I'd move there, so no one would have to play the telephone game in order to fill me in on what's going on over there.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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To finish what our education system is doing, dumbing down the American people to the state of knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, numbskulls (and we're close.....very close). ;)
 
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MorkandMindy

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A hundred years ago the newspapers (TVs didn't exist) in just 6 months were able to turn public opinion around from Wilson 'kept us out of the war' to a 373 to 50 House vote in favor of war.

That the German Embassy had posted a warning to the public not to sail on the Lusitania because it was gun running, that the Lusitania had gun mountings on deck, the guns ready to be craned into place, that the Lusitania had slowed down a long way out from the dock to allow it to be torpedoed, were all known, but only one newspaper published the warning and no reports were given of the other facts which were evident to hundreds of passengers and crew.

Nothing has changed. People I knew well were on a demonstration in which a mathematics student; Kevin Gately was killed, was initially reported in the largest circulation newspaper on the front page that a policeman had been killed. Days later hidden in the middle of the paper (Daily Telegraph) there was a tiny note that the policeman had died as a result of an injury from a drunken man about 50 miles away.

It is possible to find the truth in newspapers but as regards politics or international events you are a lot better off flipping a coin.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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It is possible to find the truth in newspapers but as regards politics or international events you are a lot better off flipping a coin.

Mark Twain had a humorous quip concerning newspaper articles written about him: "You can go over the printed word with a divining rod and never find yourself."
 
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Ringo84

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I really have no use for the news. It's way too easy for it to have been made up entirely, if not simply skewed to play on my heart-strings a certain way. I see it as a manipulation device, plain and simple, to get public opinion to 'stampede' in a desired direction.

But I'm sure whatever sources you read for your news would never try to manipulate or lie to you, right?
Ringo
 
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Rajni

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But I'm sure whatever sources you read for your news would never try to manipulate or lie to you, right? Ringo
What made you think I read or trust any news sources?
My opinion includes any media source, right down to the independent,
conspiracy-theorizing, anti-establishment YouTuber. ;)
As I always say, "No news is good news".

-
 
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Ringo84

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What made you think I read or trust any news sources?
My opinion includes any media source, right down to the independent,
conspiracy-theorizing, anti-establishment YouTuber. ;)
As I always say, "No news is good news".

-
So where do you get your information about the outside world? If you're looking for a completely objective news source, well....you'll be looking for a long, long time. But some news sources are better than others, of course.
Ringo
 
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Rajni

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So where do you get your information about the outside world? If you're looking for a completely objective news source, well....you'll be looking for a long, long time. But some news sources are better than others, of course.
Ringo
That's the thing. I don't look for them. Information comes and goes, but it's not the lifeline for me that it appears to be for others. Any news I do come across is taken with a huge grain of salt. I don't carry on about it as though I'm a first-hand witness who has all the facts, as is the usual armchair-quarterback approach.

I'm pretty sure I've said this previously: "For the newsman tells me so" goes over about as well with me as "For the Bible tells me so" does with an atheist. :)
 
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mark kennedy

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'He who owns the media writes the news.'

Reading papers and watching TV are easy and become habits. I don't think anyone would bet anything on the accuracy of either, but particularly for the old they give a feeling of still 'being there' of still being involved in life despite not working or actually Occupying Wall St., but a sort of feeling that they are somehow contributing to something or affecting something in some sort of way.

But there is actually a problem, people are gullible, far more gullible than they think.
I remember in sixth grade someone from the local television station to talk to us about producing television news. She said rather matter of factually that the central emphasis wasn't accuracy it was emotion. Like the Athenian intellectuals in Paul's day at Mars Hill we are a society that graves, 'some new thing' and I might add, drenched in emotive drama. Our media, not just news, is continually produced in such a way as to be a giant birdbath a hundred miles wide and an inch deep. I like current events to, I've watched the rise of Trump and the voting populace that supports him with great interest that boarders on morbid fascination, I can't seem to look away.

What built radio, television and then finally the internet wasn't just research and development and evolving technology. Of course those things were vital. What produced them at the root and foundation was commercial advertising, those asinine commercials and ads that populate so much of them is what footed the bills.

Think about it, why are campaigns so expensive? I suppose that's a complex answer but what I think is draining so much revenue is the advertisement and solicitation that is so much a part of American politics. I've long thought of political ads as bribes to the media. But that wasn't really the question, what is the point of the media and what purpose do they serve I think is more the idea.

Plato used an analogy of a cave where people were forced to watch silhouette images on a wall and those images were the only reality they ever knew. One of them gets out and see the world and comes back and tries to tell the others what is really going on, and according to Plato, they get angry and kill him. This has been described as, the common marketplace that enslaves us all.

How would you do it? How would you subjugate a mass of people to a an unreal vision of the world without letting them realize it's all a theatrical production? You would have to control cultural centers like markets, schools, religious institutions, political centers, legal administrations and one very central tenant would be where people get their information on current events.

Don't get me wrong, journalism is a vital source for truth and information in a democracy. I have undying respect for journalists who tirelessly pursue truth and make it known though media outlets. But there is another element somewhere in the architecture, something darker and more insidious working alongside those pursuits. One can stare long enough at the architecture long enough and start to see vague outlines of dragons and demons, some real and some imagined.

The media is there because humans have a natural desire for knowledge, the craving can be as strong as any sexual or chemical addiction, it can be as noble as a minsters devotion to the gospel truth. Our problem with out institutions and enterprises isn't the intrinsic nature of those systems but something fundamentally flawed in human character. The media exists because the best and worst things in our nature craves both truth and drama and a source for knowledge that informs and at the same time, tells us what we want to hear.
 
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Rion

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I think the importance of journalistic news will be inversely proportional to one's hubris.

So people who are skeptical of the mainstream media are full of hubris? That's certainly a modest view to take. Many of us who question it, and call it out for its numerous failures do so because it is important. It is too important to let it be used as propaganda and a weapon.
 
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USincognito

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So people who are skeptical of the mainstream media are full of hubris?

"I think", meant that he was stating an opinion, not averring a fact.

He also didn't say anything about scepticism.
 
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variant

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So people who are skeptical of the mainstream media are full of hubris? That's certainly a modest view to take. Many of us who question it, and call it out for its numerous failures do so because it is important. It is too important to let it be used as propaganda and a weapon.

I think people should be skeptical of everything.

Where I see hubris is where people come to their own immovable conclusions by looking for sources that confirm their biases.
 
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MorkandMindy

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I think people should be skeptical of everything.

Very true, in fact I don't take the garbage in to rake through it in the first place.

It might be fascinating to read about the pursuit of the Libyan responsible for the 'Lockerbie bombing', and no doubt there are occasionally long stories to about it in the Sunday papers, but I think that is a waste of time because the bombing originated in Iran, not Libya.

A newspaper is comforting because it gives the reader something to think about and is never too difficult to understand.
 
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MorkandMindy

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Where I see hubris is where people come to their own immovable conclusions by looking for sources that confirm their biases.

That's where the pleasure comes from, knowing that your very first impressions were absolutely right.

And that is hubris, when people don't want to learn anything just to keep hearing that they are right. And most people I've met are like that, the quickest way to offend is to try to have a political discussion. They won't change their minds about anything one iota because they insist their own first impression was totally right.

Newspapers often back one party or another, given that I don't read them I might be wrong on that but decades ago when I did in Britain it was clear which papers backed which party and recently I did read one article in the Washington Post supporting Hillary's bombing of Libya and it was complete nonsense so I think blind support for one party or the other could be the rule for newspapers here too, to keep their mind already made up readers.

But I had no idea millions would read something so stupid.

This makes me wonder if the media is the cause of the Republican / Democrat split in the country, between two worthless parties. I do know the totally closed minded avid Democrat supporters I know are keen newspaper readers.
 
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Rajni

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I also prefer to avoid the media because if I get caught up into the drama, I could potentially be railing against someone it has vilified who might not even be guilty of whatever-it-is they're allegedly guilty of. There's a saying that if we're not careful, the media will have us hating those who are, in reality, being oppressed, and loving those who are, in reality, doing the oppressing.

What if that mother didn't kill her kid, but was framed? Or no one was killed at all and the whole story is bogus? If I believed an innocent person is guilty and I'm getting all judgy about how evil he or she is and joining in society's chorus about how he or she should get the death penalty or something, what does that make me? Especially if it were to turn out that I was wrong?

My rule of thumb is that, unless I witnessed an event with my own eyes, I know nothing.
 
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Albion

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For example try the psychologists test of word association.

Which country goes with 'terrorism'. A surprising number would have said 'Iran'. That is, would say 'Iran' outside the annual hate N. Korea season, right now it might be N. Korea.
That doesn't seem likely, but of course you're only guessing. There is no data on what these imaginary people being polled would actually say.

Now give an example of a terrorist act Iran has committed. Well there is one, holding members of the US embassy hostage for the release of Iranian funds. And, well there is one other, bombing Pan Am flight 103, Lockerbie in response to the US shooting down an Iranian airliner. That's about it. In reality Iran is well ahead of Andorra.
Unless you count all the terrorists that are client organizations of Iran, financed by Iran, supplied with weapons by Iran, coached by Iran, and supported verbally in international dealings...by Iran. Otherwise, yes. :doh:
 
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MorkandMindy

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What terrorism supported by Iran??

I guess that makes you one real person in the poll.


I've been assured by a reader of the MSM that the MSM has been running a low level media barrage against Iran for some time, to justify locating medium range nuclear missiles on the border of Russia, to stoke things up with Russia.

Joseph Stalin died in 1953 so why are we still confronting Russia? The USSR ended in 1989, and then there was going to be a peace dividend. But of course there wasn't, it all got spent on more war machines against people we hadn't yet decided to attack.

The removal of the Berlin Wall and breakup of the USSR happened so quickly the media was way behind on finding a new enemy.

But in the end we had to go back to Russia again as the only enemy big enough to justify a huge military.
 
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