Why does the earth rotate?

[Kylie]

The calendar is not set to your imaginary animals.

No, just imaginary birthdays.

 

[dad]

Or not? What makes you say this? Or are you just guessing?

That is you guessing when you claim we would not expect to see certain things in a different unknown past nature...how would you know?

That's kind of the point. Science is the only one with evidence from reality.

Those who mistakenly assumed that the temporary present state on earth comprised all of reality, display a shortsightedness so severe, that they disqualify themselves from reality cognizance.

All we look for? Everything we see follows the rules that we have here, whether we look for it or not?

Circular and false. All you ever ever ever use IN looking for and at anything is the present state! Therefore it is impossible to see anything in another light.

Or are you suggesting scientists are cherry picking their data?

They cherry pick how the data will be looked at and interpreted.

I've explained to you how this is wrong, and yet you ignore it.

You were shown wrong and can't deal with it.

Yeah, when my daughter can demolish your arguments,

Great, let her debate without you being there. Maybe she will get saved. I am here to help.

 

[dad]

No, just imaginary birthdays.

No more imaginary than the fact that Jesus lived. Since the precise date is unknown, you are in NO position to call any guess at the birthday right or wrong. Learn your place.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Absurd. Scripture is consistent as ever could possibly be! What is inconsistent is man's fabrications and frauds and fake creation fables.

Yet some...even 'christians' wholeheartedly embrace such godless fables with all their hearts and minds.

Sorry, you just can't get past the fact that you always say we just can't trust evidence from the past. Here you are claiming consistency matters, and we've all seen you disregard claims of consistency made by others. Therefore its not legitimate for you to claim consistency. Its exactly what you always said.

 

[dad]

Sorry, you just can't get past the fact that you always say we just can't trust evidence from the past.

No one needs to trust science's version of the past to read what it was actually like.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

No one needs to trust science's version of the past to read what it was actually like.

See? Radical mistrust of all evidence which is exactly what dooms your own ideas when used the same way against your own ideas.

Your own methods don't allow acceptance of your own ideas.

 

[dad]

See? Radical mistrust of all evidence which is exactly what dooms your own ideas when used the same way against your own ideas.

Your own methods don't allow acceptance of your own ideas.

Try to talk about the last 4500 years, not last week or some other canard. You may not have an excuse for not believing Scripture. Not here. Get over it.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Try to talk about the last 4500 years, not last week or some other canard. You may not have an excuse for not believing Scripture. Not here. Get over it.

You misunderstand me. I believe the scriptures. Is merely that you have no reason to believe the scriptures, because you rule out all evidence from the past.

 

[dad]

You misunderstand me. I believe the scriptures.

No. I don't. The Scriptures clearly say Jesus created all things, and the world was made by Him.

Is merely that you have no reason to believe the scriptures, because you rule out all evidence from the past.

I only rule out beliefs pushed on evidences purposely by so called science, and even some of it's disciples who also claim to be of the christian persuasion.

 

[Kylie]

That is you guessing when you claim we would not expect to see certain things in a different unknown past nature...how would you know?

Well, let's think. When we look at stars light years away, we see lines in the spectrum based on what elements are in those stars. We know what those lines look like in the here-and-now because we can do it in the lab. So when we see absolutely identical lines in distant stars, isn't it reasonable to conclude that they are caused by the same thing? And yet you are claiming that these lines are the result of a completely different process so unlike anything that we have in the here-and-now that the laws that govern them are completely different - and yet they produce identical results? why would they provide identical results? You have NEVER been able to answer this.

Those who mistakenly assumed that the temporary present state on earth comprised all of reality, display a shortsightedness so severe, that they disqualify themselves from reality cognizance.

And you think that accepting a different state so as to hold onto your belief in a book written by men thousands of years ago who thought epilepsy was caused by demonic posession is the intellectually honest thing to do?

Circular and false. All you ever ever ever use IN looking for and at anything is the present state! Therefore it is impossible to see anything in another light.

And does that render stuff in a different state invisible somehow? Of course not. If we look at a place that is governed by different laws, then we would see things behaving acording to different laws. And we'd say, "Hmmm, that isn't like what we have here, maybe the laws there are differnet." But that never happens, does it.

They cherry pick how the data will be looked at and interpreted.

Yeah, it's not like they make the data publicly available for other scientists to look at and study, is it? Oh wait, they do.

You were shown wrong and can't deal with it.

lol, another example of wishful thinking.

Or perhaps you can show me where you proved me wrong?

Great, let her debate without you being there. Maybe she will get saved. I am here to help.

lol, I showed her this. She says, "If God wants me saved, he can give me the message directly instead of in an old book."

And yes, she's had a go at reading my husband's Bible. She found it very boring.

 

[Kylie]

No more imaginary than the fact that Jesus lived. Since the precise date is unknown, you are in NO position to call any guess at the birthday right or wrong. Learn your place.

Do you know when my daughter's birthday is? No need for the year, just the date will be enough. No you don't. That doesn't stop you from guessing. But no matter what date you guess, you will probably be wrong.

Likewise, we can say that Christmas is probably not the date Jesus was born (if he ever existed). Even the clues given in the Bible indicate that December 25 was almost certainly not the date.

http://www.pointsoftruth.com/articles/jesusbirth.html
http://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/biblical-evidence-shows-jesus-christ-wasnt-born-on-dec-25

 

[TLK Valentine]

No more imaginary than the fact that Jesus lived. Since the precise date is unknown, you are in NO position to call any guess at the birthday right or wrong. Learn your place.

So you admit that it's a baseless guess?

 

[dad]

Well, let's think. When we look at stars light years away, we see lines in the spectrum based on what elements are in those stars.

Saying something looks light years away is a misnomer. In other words they are very far away.

We know what those lines look like in the here-and-now because we can do it in the lab.

It does seem true that there are elements in the stars that we are familiar with and can detect. What else also may or not be there is another issue.

It is also true that light carries such information and that light here in our time and space does carry some information.

So when we see absolutely identical lines in distant stars, isn't it reasonable to conclude that they are caused by the same thing?

It is reasonable to conclude that in the stars there are elements like some here on earth. The light that carries that info has to exist here to be seen. Therefore it could be possible that what we are seeing may be more representative of how light can exist (and info in it) HERE. But in either case, we do not know what else may also exist. In other words we are seeing stars that are an unknown size and distance and which exist in time (or no time) that we have no knowledge of at all, and man has assumed that the info and light we see only here represents a same state universe!

And yet you are claiming that these lines are the result of a completely different process so unlike anything that we have in the here-and-now that the laws that govern them are completely different

I am saying science doesn't know. I am also saying that the bible indicates a far different nature to the universe than man has cooked up and assumes.

And you think that accepting a different state so as to hold onto your belief in a book written by men thousands of years ago who thought epilepsy was caused by demonic posession is the intellectually honest thing to do?

Evil spirits can cause health issues. They can cause fear which is detrimental so health. They can influence people to do hurtful and dangerous things, that can affect health...like go to war...etc etc. Of course some people are given over to them also.

And does that render stuff in a different state invisible somehow? Of course not. If we look at a place that is governed by different laws, then we would see things behaving acording to different laws. And we'd say, "Hmmm, that isn't like what we have here, maybe the laws there are differnet." But that never happens, does it.

The world in the past was quite visible. So will the new world in the future be very real and seen. As far as the universe now, that is not known, except for the near earth zone. Science is 'in the zone'. In the box. In the fishbowl. Tell me what it would look like in the far universe if there WERE NO TIME..or no time as we know it here?? Time is invisible. We see things here and only here, and interpret them accordingly.

Or perhaps you can show me where you proved me wrong?

No problem, just post where you thought you were right.

lol, I showed her this. She says, "If God wants me saved, he can give me the message directly instead of in an old book."

The message she could get saved was from modern technology actually.

And yes, she's had a go at reading my husband's Bible. She found it very boring.

So did almost everyone. Try some bible new testament comics.

 

[dad]

So you admit that it's a baseless guess?

Yes. Apparently God shrouded the exact date in a little mystery. Why I don't know. I suspect it could be partially that there are so many precise prophesies of days and years, that if people could absolutely pinpoint when He was born and died, that they could figure out some things about the end time period that they are not supposed to.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes. Apparently God shrouded the exact date in a little mystery. Why I don't know.

IF, you mean. You don't know IF God shrouded the date in mystery because it's beyond your ability to figure out.

More baseless assertion on your part. Learn your place.

 

[TLK Valentine]

[QUOTE="dad, post: 68811746, member: 98011"I suspect it could be partially that there are so many precise prophesies of days and years, that if people could absolutely pinpoint when He was born and died, that they could figure out some things about the end time period that they are not supposed to.[/QUOTE]

Ever notice a recurring theme in both the Bible and religious history of those in power taking extreme measures to keep people ignorant?

Never works out over the long term, does it?

 

[dad]

Do you know when my daughter's birthday is? No need for the year, just the date will be enough. No you don't. That doesn't stop you from guessing. But no matter what date you guess, you will probably be wrong.

Exactly.

Likewise, we can say that Christmas is probably not the date Jesus was born (if he ever existed).

Maybe not, maybe so. But who cares? If we celebrate it on a certain day, then that'll do er.

Even the clues given in the Bible indicate that December 25 was almost certainly not the date.

The first item in your first link had to do with how they date it. An eclipse of the moon. That is the same thing that confuses the time of the death of Christ on the cross. The King of the universe, and creator of the world died on that tree. It is my opinion that time itself may have been affected. If that were the case that would affect when an eclipse happened in relation to time after it happened But I digress..

 

[dad]

IF, you mean. You don't know IF God shrouded the date in mystery because it's beyond your ability to figure out.

I have access to other clues. No man will know, for example the exact day of His return. Since the days till His first coming were given by Gabriel long ago, one could zoom in on a more exact date then currently possible if we knew the precise day Christ died, or even was born!

 

[TLK Valentine]

I have access to other clues.

You have clues, you say? Let's examine this claim for truth:

No man will know, for example the exact day of His return.

Right -- Mark 13:32. Utterly irrelevant regarding his Earthly birth, however.

Since the days till His first coming were given by Gabriel long ago, one could zoom in on a more exact date then currently possible if we knew the precise day Christ died, or even was born!

Again, utterly irrelevant. If Jesus was who and what he claimed to be, then he could return at any time of his choosing regardless of the exact date or time of his Earthly birth or death... unless you're claiming that there's a very specific (down to the day, perhaps?) and preordained waiting period known to someone besides the Father.

There is not. Mark 13:32 confirms this, and Matthew 24:36 repeats it (as Matthew often does regarding Mark)

Therefore, your claim is in error, and you, quite literally, don't have a clue.

 

[dad]

Ever notice a recurring theme in both the Bible and religious history of those in power taking extreme measures to keep people ignorant?

No. I noticed an extreme effort to bring truth and light to man! This was done perhaps with a little security. God wasn't born yesterday!