why does the chotki need to be hidden?

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

When praying?
Can I pray it publicly as I do with the rosary or is that against the rules so to speak?

 

[seashale76]

The idea is not to draw attention to yourself. It's to do with pride.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

The idea is not to draw attention to yourself. It's to do with pride.

I fail to see how its related to pride in a secular society.
I have yet to meet a person who's been admired due to his or her piety.

The entire mindset seems outdated imo.

 

[AMM]

How far should we take that? Should we not use the chotki in public then? Additionally, I know Christ instructs us to go into our rooms and close the doors when we pray - should we not pray in public so others don't see us? (Related to this -- what if someone has a roommate and cannot "pray in secret" even in their room? A problem I've run into at college particularly, but also at home since my brother and I share a room.) This is something I've often wondered about.

 

[seashale76]

I fail to see how its related to pride in a secular society.
I have yet to meet a person who's been admired due to his or her piety.

The entire mindset seems outdated imo.

Ever heard of the publican and the pharisee? Luke chapter 18? The pharisee proudly stood and proclaimed his thankfulness that he wasn't like all the sinners around him during his 'prayer'. Times haven't changed. You can look at all the sinners around you and puff yourself up as being prayerful and religious whereas they are not. This is to be avoided.

 

[ArmyMatt]

you can have it out, just don't bring attention to your praying

 

[~Anastasia~]

I've never actually heard it had to be hidden. (That doesn't mean it might not be advised, just I've never heard it.)

BUT ... sometimes I use a 33-knot continuous rope during service, but it wraps across my palm and is mostly hidden, and I generally cover that had with my other one if it's visible. And when I use a 100-knot, which can't be hidden, I keep it under a shawl. So ... that thinking is just there.

One thing I have heard, a layperson is not to wear a long prayer rope tucked in the belt as a monk does. Because that would be prideful.

I don't think the concern is quite so much directed against being seen praying in a completely secular setting, particularly one actually hostile to the faith. But doing so in Church or to be seen by other Christians would be the biggest problem, I would think.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Ever heard of the publican and the pharisee? Luke chapter 18? The pharisee proudly stood and proclaimed his thankfulness that he wasn't like all the sinners around him during his 'prayer'. Times haven't changed. You can look at all the sinners around you and puff yourself up as being prayerful and religious whereas they are not. This is to be avoided.

Yes, but the culture has changed so drastically that I cannot even imagine even myself or others praising my piety.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree.
If ones spiritually prideful I'm afraid that's an issue that goes far beyond the use of an chotki in public or not anyway.

Public prayer in 2017 is something differently than it used to be in that past.

you can have it out, just don't bring attention to your praying

Noted, I never do as it's raising a stigma doing so. Actually I'm avoiding attention out of quite the opposite reasons, not so pious after all then I suppose.

I've never actually heard it had to be hidden. (That doesn't mean it might not be advised, just I've never heard it.)

BUT ... sometimes I use a 33-knot continuous rope during service, but it wraps across my palm and is mostly hidden, and I generally cover that had with my other one if it's visible. And when I use a 100-knot, which can't be hidden, I keep it under a shawl. So ... that thinking is just there.

One thing I have heard, a layperson is not to wear a long prayer rope tucked in the belt as a monk does. Because that would be prideful.

I don't think the concern is quite so much directed against being seen praying in a completely secular setting, particularly one actually hostile to the faith. But doing so in Church or to be seen by other Christians would be the biggest problem, I would think.

Hmm, interesting.

 

[archer75]

I'm interested in this thread. I'm not yet Orthodox, but I do use a prayer rope. Mostly I pray in private, but I don't go too far out of my way to hide the rope and other accoutrements of prayer from my wife.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm interested in this thread. I'm not yet Orthodox, but I do use a prayer rope. Mostly I pray in private, but I don't go too far out of my way to hide the rope and other accoutrements of prayer from my wife.

I think knowing about prayer within a marriage should generally be a good thing.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Couldn't exposure to prayer as in the chotki or the rosary be a witness in and of itself of God and worship of him?

The lack of Christian expression in the secular society is astonishing imo.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

When I attend Quaker meeting with my hubman I bring my prayer rope, Orthodox study Bible, and usually a book of some spiritual value. I carry the rope in my pocket, quietly take it out once meeting has begun, and then quietly put it back in my pocket as meeting ends. I'm sure people have noticed it, but nobody has asked me about it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Couldn't exposure to prayer as in the chotki or the rosary be a witness in and of itself of God and worship of him?

The lack of Christian expression in the secular society is astonishing imo.

It seems reasonable, yes.

But I think we should remember, the things we are taught have been taught over centuries, in different places, and all kinds of societies. They tend to deal with truths as they relate to our personal spiritual state, not how this society or that functions at a particular point in time. I guess that's what we have priests and spiritual fathers for - to apply these things in the context of the society in which we live.

 

[archer75]

Would someone mind sharing a link to the recommendation being discussed?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Would someone mind sharing a link to the recommendation being discussed?

Which one?

 

[archer75]

Which one?

Sorry - the one in the OP. That a prayer rope should be hidden.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Sorry - the one in the OP. That a prayer rope should be hidden.

Ah, ok. I'll have a quick look, but as I said I've never seen it ... I'd be curious too if Stabat Mater has a link. I was thinking that might make more sense of it.

 

[Phronema]

I fail to see how its related to pride in a secular society.
I have yet to meet a person who's been admired due to his or her piety.

The entire mindset seems outdated imo.

I believe the pride portion comes from gloating about praying in public, as if you're showing off that you're Christian and wanted to rub it in others faces. Essentially acting "holier than thou", or having moral superiority.

I don't think it's written anywhere, it's just not in good character to show it off. So as the others have said, having the prayer rope out is not a problem, but the act of drawing attention to prayer. So, if others don't notice, there's no issue.

Also, none of this is intended to come across as a snide reply, if it does please forgive me.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Did a search which led to some interesting bits of reading.

I find nothing about the prayer rope needing to be hidden (except this thread here - Google is fast!), but there is lots written about "hidden prayer" and how the work of the Jesus Prayer is accomplished in a hidden way, things like that.

But I do have a sense not to make a show of it, and that was mentioned in nearly every article I read. I know one person who used to wrap a very long and large prayer rope many times over and around the arm and wear it. I didn't want to judge the motive, but it certainly seemed out of place. And I keep my remaining 100-knot looped around my rear-view mirror, and now I'm feeling a little guilty about that. I do use it to pray, and I very much don't want to lose it (I lost another that was made specially for me by an iconograoher friend) ... this one is really beautiful (though I had said I preferred plain ones, I guess this is plain for him, lol) made by a monastic friend and gifted to me. But after what I read today, I feel a little bad about it always hanging there. A number of folks keep one that way though, and with me REALLY not wanting to lose this one, I'll probably keep it there if I don't bring it inside.

 

[Anhelyna]

Stabat - would you care to explain what you actually mean by

<<Can I pray it publicly as I do with the rosary>>

I'm puzzled by the "pray it publicly" .

I've certainly never heard that my chotki or lestovka should be hidden.

Like Anastasia , my Orthodox priest friend over here has a prayer rope hanging from his rearview mirror in his van and he has a small one always on his wrist.

I don't wear mine - but I've always got one with me . I also use mine in Church - when my UGCC Priest is preaching since I'm not a Ukrainian speaker - so use that time for personal prayer and my little lestovka comes out then.