Why Does Man Sin?

[vekarppe]

It is a shame how many times, that when someone doesn’t like what the Word of God says, they make like it was taken out of context.

This isn't issue of dislike the Word of God; you are now questioning my attitude to the Bible.

Why don’t you just accept what it says? If you don’t understand then ask Jesus.

But before we can accept what the verse says, we must know what it says (what the author meant); and to do this, we must pay attention to the words used and to the context.

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You didn't answered my question, "What about the word gar, "for" ?"

 

[Giver]

This isn't issue of dislike the Word of God; you are now questioning my attitude to the Bible.



But before we can accept what the verse says, we must know what it says (what the author meant); and to do this, we must pay attention to the words used and to the context.

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You didn't answered my question, "What about the word gar, "for" ?"

Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit to give us the meaning. The problem is most people listen to some other person or their own desires to interpret what the author wants to convey.

 

[vekarppe]

Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit to give us the meaning.

Your statement is acceptable only if it refers to divine inspiration of the bible, otherwise not. Holy Spirit doesn't change the meaning ot the text depending on who is reading it. The meaning of the text is what the author meant by it, and our task is to find the original author's intention in writing a certain phrase or utterance (i.e. what did the author intend his original readers to understand).

The Bible is not a random collection of statements (verses) without meaning.

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My sincere question is, What about the word gar, "for?" What does it imply?

 

[Giver]

Your statement is acceptable only if it refers to divine inspiration of the bible, otherwise not. Holy Spirit doesn't change the meaning ot the text depending on who is reading it. The meaning of the text is what the author meant by it, and our task is to find the original author's intention in writing a certain phrase or utterance (i.e. what did the author intend his original readers to understand).

The Bible is not a random collection of statements (verses) without meaning.

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My sincere question is, What about the word gar, "for?" What does it imply?

Only God can teach us about him.

 

[Tkjjc]

..

 

[vekarppe]

Only God can teach us about him.

What, exactly, does this mean in this context? Are you saying there is no need to study the Bible? Or it doesn't matter what the (inspired) authors of the Bible have written? That the meaning of the Bible text is subjective and it can mean anything?

 

[Giver]

What, exactly, does this mean in this context? Are you saying there is no need to study the Bible? Or it doesn't matter what the (inspired) authors of the Bible have written? That the meaning of the Bible text is subjective and it can mean anything?

What I mean is Jesus/Holy Spirit is our teacher. One of his textbooks is the Bible.

When I accepted Jesus’ call to his ministry I asked him what seminary to attend. He told me NO! Don’t read about me. I’ll teach you about me. He also told me that the Christian Bible was his written word.

(1 Corinthians 2:13-14) “Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.”

 

[vekarppe]

What I mean is Jesus/Holy Spirit is our teacher. One of his textbooks is the Bible.

When I accepted Jesus’ call to his ministry I asked him what seminary to attend. He told me NO! Don’t read about me. I’ll teach you about me. He also told me that the Christian Bible was his written word.

But how does this nullify or contradict what I have said above?

 

[Giver]

But how does this nullify or contradict what I have said above?

I guess it has escaped me what you are saying. I know the Bible is the word of God, and Jesus personally told me to get more into it. What I have been taught by God is that we should let him be our teacher not man. Of course we may first have to be taught about God by man. After we have accepted Jesus as our savior and God, then we let him teach us.

Jesus is the perfect teacher. He knows what we don’t know and what we do know. He knows how we understand a word.

 

[vekarppe]

Thank you, Giver. I see you are sincere. Do you hold there is no need to study the Bible?

 

[Giver]

Thank you, Giver. I see you are sincere. Do you hold there is no need to study the Bible?

I read the Bible almost every day. Many days I listen to audio CD of the Bible for hours at a time. Study? I listen, read, and let the Holy Spirit teach me to understand what I am reading or listening to, is saying.

There have been times when Jesus has had me open the Bible to different verses in order to teach me some truth.

 

[vekarppe]

How do you separate your own thoughts from what Holy Spirit likes to teach? Can the text of the Bible mean someting to you, and someting else to me? Does it matter what the inspired authors have written and what was their original intention? I'm just curious.

 

[Giver]

How do you separate your own thoughts from what Holy Spirit likes to teach? Can the text of the Bible mean someting to you, and someting else to me? Does it matter what the inspired authors have written and what was their original intention? I'm just curious.

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.

Jesus spoke to me for two years using different methods of communications. Even after two years, when I was telling him I would accept his call, I still needed a sign to make sure that it was Jesus calling me. I said yes, but to make sure it was God, I asked for the gift of tongues that night. I spoke in tongues that night. Over the last thirty years I have come to know his voice just as I know my wife’s. There really isn’t any danger of mistaking God’s voice.

As far as reading what past or present theologians have or are writing; no I don’t read them. When I accepted Jesus call and asked him what seminary to attend he told me: “NO! Don’t read about me I’ll teach you about me.”

 

[vekarppe]

I believe it really does matter what the inspired authors have written and what was their original intention; there is no another meaning than this. Goal of interpretation is twofold: (1) to explain what the text meant to its original audience and in its original historical setting; and (2), to explain what the text means for today. Because the Bible is God's special revelation, we must handle it accordingly.

I quote J. H. Keathley

Its Interpretation

If you will note, in the outline used here, interpretation has been placed on a level with illumination under the heading "Understanding the Bible." This is because the illuminating work of the Spirit goes hand-in-hand with the interpretation of Scripture. Although illumination is assured for believers, it does not always guarantee accurate interpretation. And if the interpretation is wrong, so will be the understanding of the passage in question. Many people approach the Bible with a false mysticism. Their attitude is, "The Holy Spirit will show what this means." But then they proceed to butcher the text and come up with some off-the-wall idea that completely misses what the Spirit is saying based on solid principles of Bible study or exegesis. The word that comes to mind here is abuse. In a chapter entitled, "Handling the Scriptures Accurately," Swindoll writes:

Ours is a day of abuse; sexual abuse, emotional abuse, verbal abuse. But what about biblical abuse? By that I mean being deceived by the improper use of Scripture. Who of us has not witnessed someone twisting Scripture, forcing it to mean something it does not mean? Those who don’t know better start believing it with all their heart, only to discover later on that both the interpretation and the application were fallacious ... perhaps dangerous to their spiritual health and growth.

It is because of this very problem that the Apostle Paul, in a section where he was warning Timothy against false teaching that can lead to the ruin of the hearers, said, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth" (emphasis mine). Paul had in mind the important principle that we must correctly handle the Word of God in both its analysis (exegesis) and in its presentation (exposition) since Timothy was faced with the foolish interpretations of false teachers (as we often are). But the main emphasis is on the study and interpretation of the Word of God. What's involved here? Is this a matter of sincerity or of theology?

Now this has nothing to do with sincerity. Many, perhaps most, people who mishandle the Word are very sincere. And it really has little to do with theology. Some who have their theology fairly well in place can still mishandle Scripture. It also has nothing to do with personality. There are gifted teachers dripping with charisma who can sway an audience and hold them in the palm of their hand, yet be guilty of mishandling Scripture. It certainly has nothing to do with popularity. Famous, highly visible personalities in Christian circles who can draw large listening audiences can (and often do) mishandle Scripture. So let’s put to bed, once for all, the idea that if a person just "loves the Lord," he or she will be preserved from mishandling Scripture. No, even those of us who believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and affirm the importance of sound doctrine can be guilty of biblical abuse.

Christians need to learn the basics of sound Bible study. Sound Bible study is that which is based on the fundamental principles of interpretation that will protect the student from Scripture abuse and that will provide a check on his or her own wild imagination. The following lists several important principles that are basic to the interpretation of Scripture.

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=698

 

[Giver]

I believe it really does matter what the inspired authors have written and what was their original intention; there is no another meaning than this. Goal of interpretation is twofold: (1) to explain what the text meant to its original audience and in its original historical setting; and (2), to explain what the text means for today. Because the Bible is God's special revelation, we must handle it accordingly.

I quote J. H. Keathley

Its Interpretation

If you will note, in the outline used here, interpretation has been placed on a level with illumination under the heading "Understanding the Bible." This is because the illuminating work of the Spirit goes hand-in-hand with the interpretation of Scripture. Although illumination is assured for believers, it does not always guarantee accurate interpretation. And if the interpretation is wrong, so will be the understanding of the passage in question. Many people approach the Bible with a false mysticism. Their attitude is, "The Holy Spirit will show what this means." But then they proceed to butcher the text and come up with some off-the-wall idea that completely misses what the Spirit is saying based on solid principles of Bible study or exegesis. The word that comes to mind here is abuse. In a chapter entitled, "Handling the Scriptures Accurately," Swindoll writes:

Ours is a day of abuse; sexual abuse, emotional abuse, verbal abuse. But what about biblical abuse? By that I mean being deceived by the improper use of Scripture. Who of us has not witnessed someone twisting Scripture, forcing it to mean something it does not mean? Those who don’t know better start believing it with all their heart, only to discover later on that both the interpretation and the application were fallacious ... perhaps dangerous to their spiritual health and growth.

It is because of this very problem that the Apostle Paul, in a section where he was warning Timothy against false teaching that can lead to the ruin of the hearers, said, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth" (emphasis mine). Paul had in mind the important principle that we must correctly handle the Word of God in both its analysis (exegesis) and in its presentation (exposition) since Timothy was faced with the foolish interpretations of false teachers (as we often are). But the main emphasis is on the study and interpretation of the Word of God. What's involved here? Is this a matter of sincerity or of theology?

Now this has nothing to do with sincerity. Many, perhaps most, people who mishandle the Word are very sincere. And it really has little to do with theology. Some who have their theology fairly well in place can still mishandle Scripture. It also has nothing to do with personality. There are gifted teachers dripping with charisma who can sway an audience and hold them in the palm of their hand, yet be guilty of mishandling Scripture. It certainly has nothing to do with popularity. Famous, highly visible personalities in Christian circles who can draw large listening audiences can (and often do) mishandle Scripture. So let’s put to bed, once for all, the idea that if a person just "loves the Lord," he or she will be preserved from mishandling Scripture. No, even those of us who believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and affirm the importance of sound doctrine can be guilty of biblical abuse.

Christians need to learn the basics of sound Bible study. Sound Bible study is that which is based on the fundamental principles of interpretation that will protect the student from Scripture abuse and that will provide a check on his or her own wild imagination. The following lists several important principles that are basic to the interpretation of Scripture.

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=698

You have every right to believe what ever you want, and whom ever you want.

When you believe people, then you have to make a choice of which one of all the different writers are right. Every church or group seems to want to believe they are the right one.

Jesus had more trust in the ability of the people whom he chooses to hear him and follow him. Other people believe people can’t be trusted to follow God. Many people seem to think they are better suited to tell people the right way.

For many years I believed the Catholic Church was teaching the true way. Then Jesus started teaching me and I saw that the Church was not teaching the whole Word of God. After many years I haven’t found a church that is teaching the whole Word of God.

 

[vekarppe]

When you believe people, then you have to make a choice of which one of all the different writers are right.

That's true, therefore I don't follow any denomination or accept anything blindly. I'm interested in what the Bible says, that's why I take interpretation seriously. Unlike you, I have also methods and tools to seek to determine is someone's interpretation (teaching) valid and acceptable; the meaning of the biblical texts is objective (what did the author intend his original readers to understand), not subjective.

Every church or group seems to want to believe they are the right one.

You aren't exception, unless you affirm you are wrong.

 

[Giver]

That's true, therefore I don't follow any denomination or accept anything blindly. I'm interested in what the Bible says, that's why I take interpretation seriously. Unlike you, I have also methods and tools to seek to determine is someone's interpretation (teaching) valid and acceptable; the meaning of the biblical texts is objective (what did the author intend his original readers to understand), not subjective.



You aren't exception, unless you affirm you are wrong.

The Holy Spirit once told me to tell people that no matter who tells them anything about God, be it a priest, bishop or anyone they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong. Of course that includes me. I am not a teacher, nor am I a head of any demonical church.

My job is just to give a word.

It is strange though. You feel that you have the tools to understand, and interpret the Word of God. I wonder what you make of the following scriptures?

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”

I tell you that I have the Holy Spirit/Jesus teaching me, and you tell me I don’t have the tools to understand the Word of God???????

 

[squint]

You wouldn't be the first guy who claimed Jesus was talking to them.

It's what you're hearing that may be suspect.

 

[Reformationist]

Your thoughts1

The corruptive effects of the Fall upon the constituent nature of man cause him to desire that which God has forbidden.

In short, man sins because he wants to.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Sin is the normal state of the Flesh.... God created the flesh to be Sin full.

That way only he could save us.....and we cannot boast before him that we saved ourselves.

Our right standing with God...is dependant on what God did with Jesus on the Cross....we are all helpless before God.

Glory be to God!

The pre-Fall state of man, including his flesh, was such that it was in perfect harmony with his obedient spirit. The flesh was not originally created as sinful. Through his disobedience, man's flesh has been corrupted by sin and now, the flesh of post-Fall man is sinful from birth.

God bless