Why does Ken Ham think that the Universe is only 6,000 years old?

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What sort of a comment is that? If you want to concede that science has failed to deliver that is fine. I am not here to attack science but people need to be warned that you need to be very very careful with what some people want to lead us to believe is science.

If you can't test the observations & conclusions in a hostile manner, then it's not scientifically valid.
All "facts" of history are faith based. Even it's it's "faith" in ones scientific buddies. Or their advanced lernin'.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If you can't test the observations & conclusions in a hostile manner, then it's not scientifically valid.
Not being valid does not make something invalid. Either way you have to "test the observations & conclusions".
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Not being valid does not make something invalid. Either way you have to "test the observations & conclusions".

God is not scientifically valid. You are correct, that doesn't make Him an invalid.
 
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟150,895.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
what God did in the Hebrew comes down to one word: breath. He breathed life into Adam. The issue then is to determine the meaning of that Hebrew word.


To breath is a physical thing. I thought your god wasn't physical?

So if I ask 100 christians what is meant by that word, how many different answers do you think I will get?
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To breath is a physical thing. I thought your god wasn't physical?

So if I ask 100 christians what is meant by that word, how many different answers do you think I will get?
it looks like some things are beyond our level to comprehend until we personally progress to our next level of understanding.

A lot of the stories we learn as children are not explained to us until we become adults.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Do the results of these 'tests' ever rise above chance and confirmation bias?
On a subjunctive level yes they do rise above what most people can accomplish through the power of suggestion and positive thinking.

On a objective level a lot of miracles have to do with healing and restoration. The problem there is that it's difficult to prove that there was ever a problem in the first place because often the transformation does not leave any sort of scar or evidence that there was ever a problem.

God is in the restoration business. He returns His creation to His original intention. Only Jesus carries the scars. We know when the fall began because creation began to devour itself. You can dig up the bones and look at the teeth marks on those bones. This was never God's plan for creation to devour itself like that.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God is not scientifically valid. You are correct, that doesn't make Him an invalid.
Again the results are very valid. Only when God does an act of restoration there are no scars or evidence that there was ever a problem. He says I will remember their sin no more. So the memory, the evidence is gone. He fully restores creation back to His purpose and intention.

There is a formula that you have to follow. If you do not follow the right formula then you can not expect results.

If you hire someone to fix a hole in the wall. They can sand out the repair and paint over it so there is no evidence that there was ever the need for a repair. So you could attempt to say I refuse to pay there is no evidence that there was ever the need for a repair.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SkyWriting
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟150,895.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
On a objective level a lot of miracles have to do with healing and restoration. The problem there is that it's difficult to prove that there was ever a problem in the first place because often the transformation does not leave any sort of scar or evidence that there was ever a problem.

Then how can you know that the claims are acceptable, if it is impossible to verify them? Or support them with any evidence at all?

You can dig up the bones and look at the teeth marks on those bones. This was never God's plan for creation to devour itself like that.

Really?

So when god designed the mouth of the crockodile, he wasn't building a killing machine?
When he designed venom sacks for insects, snakes, etc... and gave these things instincts to bite and spray this venom to paralyse and subsequently kill other living things.... The point wasn't to arm these guys with means to kill and feed?

Do you see how this doesn't make sense?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟150,895.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
If you hire someone to fix a hole in the wall. They can sand out the repair and paint over it so there is no evidence that there was ever the need for a repair. So you could attempt to say I refuse to pay there is no evidence that there was ever the need for a repair.

The difference is, off course, that in the real world, one could quite easily prove that repairs were made.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The difference is, off course, that in the real world, one could quite easily prove that repairs were made.
The point is when it comes to healing you can have to go beyond the placebo effect and that is difficult to do when trying to prove the existence of God. The reason is people do not use the right formula. When they do then they get results. If they do not know what they are doing then their results are going to reflect that. Still faith in God gives you at least a placebo effect and in some cases that maybe substantial.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So when god designed the mouth of the crockodile, he wasn't building a killing machine?
Are you talking about the crocodile-headed god Sobek?
main.php
 
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟150,895.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
The point is when it comes to healing you can have to go beyond the placebo effect and that is difficult to do when trying to prove the existence of God.

Let me pause right here....

Even if you could demonstrate that an incomprehensible healing occured... that doesn't prove your god had anything to do with it any more then it proves that it was Zeus or healing fairies or extra dimensional aliens or you know... a natural occurence of which the cause eludes us.

If you wish to claim that a specific thing or entity caused the healing, you will have to actually demonstrate the causal chain - not just assert it.


The reason is people do not use the right formula. When they do then they get results. If they do not know what they are doing then their results are going to reflect that. Still faith in God gives you at least a placebo effect and in some cases that maybe substantial.

Feeding someone sugar gives a placebo effect.

This is an argument against your case, not for it.
 
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟150,895.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Are you talking about the crocodile-headed god Sobek?

No, I'm talking about a crocodile.

crocodile-ap-0702adfadf_0.jpg


So, when your god designed this thing, was it not his intention to create a fiersome killing-machine?

It requires jaws and teeth that can snap an antilope's neck to eat what exactly, if not antilopes and alike?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
[QUOTE="DogmaHunter, post: 68305623, member: 346237"
When he designed venom sacks for insects, snakes, etc... and gave these things instincts to bite and spray this venom to paralyse and subsequently kill other living things.... The point wasn't to arm these guys with means to kill and feed?
[/QUOTE]"The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain," Isa 11:8,9

Paul tells us: "We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time."

Isaiah tells us they will not hurt or destroy in God's Holy Mountain. So we get an idea of what the world will be like when Jesus returns to restore the world to God's purpose and intention and His plan. So this was never a part of God's original creation before the fall. This is one reason why Christians have a problem with Evolution is that the theory does not take into consideration that we live in a fallen world and that God has a plan for redemption and restoration.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, I'm talking about a crocodile.

So, when your god designed this thing, was it not his intention to create a fiersome killing-machine?

It requires jaws and teeth that can snap an antilope's neck to eat what exactly, if not antilopes and alike?
I will let ICR provide you with the answer for that question:

Genesis 1:30 says, "'Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food'; and it was so." Therefore, according to Scripture, the originally created crocodilians ate plant material. Of course, that all changed when sin entered through mankind, resulting in the universal curse.

Now, researchers confirmed what few had even suspected—crocodiles regularly eat vegetation.

Reporting in the Journal of Zoology, a group of U.S. scientists studied alligator diets from Florida's Everglades National Park.4 Their review of published studies added to new observations finding that 13 of 18 crocodylian species eat fruit from 34 different plant families.

Gators often eat fleshy fruit. Some fruit falls into their mouths while they are pursuing animal prey; "however, there is little doubt that on occasion, fruit is deliberately consumed, often in large quantities," according to the study authors.4

For example, "Last year a researcher working in south-east Asia reported seeing a wild Siamese crocodile tucking into a watermelon," according to New Scientist.5

Teeth weren't put there for eating meat, but for eating vegetation. But in this temporarily terrible Earth, those animals with originally good behaviors suffer from a curse that permits them to use their God-given teeth for terrible and bloody encounters. Does crocodilian preference for fruit reflect their original, Edenic state?

Maybe crocodiles and alligators should be viewed in a softer light, although from a safe distance.

http://www.wcs.org/press/press-releases/crocodile-confession.aspx
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The difference is, off course, that in the real world, one could quite easily prove that repairs were made.
Ceilings are more difficult but I can assure you that I can patch a hole in a wall and you would not be able to find the repair. God can repair creation because He is the one that created it in the beginning. Even now they are talking about how science maybe able to curse some diseases by repairing the mutations in the DNA.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is an argument against your case, not for it.
My point is that Science is not atheistic. They recommend religion because the benefits are testable. Atheism is simply not supported by Science. Even though atheists tend to want to hijack science to accomplish their agenda. Nothing new about that. Lots of people try go appeal to authority by trying to convince people science supports their cause then nothing could be further from the truth.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟38,603.00
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
On a subjunctive level yes they do rise above what most people can accomplish through the power of suggestion and positive thinking.
Different goalposts again.

I asked, do the results of these 'tests' ever rise above chance and confirmation bias?
On a objective level a lot of miracles have to do with healing and restoration. The problem there is that it's difficult to prove that there was ever a problem in the first place because often the transformation does not leave any sort of scar or evidence that there was ever a problem.
<snip preaching>
Hoaxes, frauds, and fabricated stories also do not leave any sort of scar or evidence that there was ever a problem.
 
Upvote 0