Why does hell exist?

[rwb]

God created one man and one woman in His image. Everyone else who did, does, or will live has multiple flaws. How can all humans be made in His image if none of them were, are, or will be perfect except two?

We are all of the first man and woman, and as they became flawed by sin and death, humanity is also flawed (destined to death & sin) through them. God is Spirit, and it was in creating man & woman with His Spirit breathed in them that they were His likeness and image. You make an important distinction between what Adam & Eve were at creation and how all of their offspring would be born without the Spirit of God in them. Without the Spirit in man, we are dead in trespasses and sins. It is for this reason that man must be born again, born of the life-giving Spirit. Christ is the image of God, and when we are in Him, we too are once again made into the image of God through Him.

Colossians 1:15 (KJV) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If man dies without the Spirit of God in them, the end will be the second death that is the Lake of Fire.

 

[rwb]

But comparing that to what God allegedly does, that He allegedly tortures humans in literal hellfire forever, is not my idea of someone that still loves the ones He is allowing to be tortured like that.

I really don't understand this confusion by some?? How can we blame God for the fate that awaits every human without Christ by their own free will? God did not make man disobey Him when He commanded them not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Man of his/her own free will chose to heed the voice of the serpent and do the one thing God warned them would destine them to die! God tells us He takes no pleasure in death, and therefore warns mankind again and again to turn to Christ for life.

Ezekiel 18:32 (KJV) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ezekiel 33:11 (KJV) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Paul tells us the unbelievers know the judgment of God, and still not only refuse Christ, Who alone gives life, but also take pleasure with those worthy of death with them.

Romans 1:32 (KJV) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[DavidPT]

I really don't understand this confusion by some?? How can we blame God for the fate that awaits every human without Christ by their own free will? God did not make man disobey Him when He commanded them not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Man of his/her own free will chose to heed the voice of the serpent and do the one thing God warned them would destine them to die! God tells us He takes no pleasure in death, and therefore warns mankind again and again to turn to Christ for life.

Ezekiel 18:32 (KJV) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ezekiel 33:11 (KJV) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Paul tells us the unbelievers know the judgment of God, and still not only refuse Christ, Who alone gives life, but also take pleasure with those worthy of death with them.

Romans 1:32 (KJV) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Name one being that ever asked to be created before God created them. Before the beginning, what was God doing in the meantime? God has no beginning, yet, everything that He created does. What was God thinking about before He decided to create everything? Did He not know that before He created all these things, a good portion of His creation are not going to obey Him, therefore, He needs to prepare a place for them so that He can torture all of these for forever? Or should we assume an all knowing God did not realize that before He created everything, and realized it after the fact?

Of all the billions and billions of ways God could have went about things, why did He choose this way? Where it involves pain and suffering, not only for the lost but also for the saved, and not only in this life, but in the next life as well, except this time around, only for the lost and not the saved as well?

The point is, if a good majority of His creation ends up being tortured forever, maybe God would have been better off not creating anything at all.

These passages you brought up about God having no pleasure in the death of the wicked, what is being meant by death? Some take it to mean God tortures them forever. Assuming He does that, yet takes no pleasure in it, why then does He do it?

BTW, how this thread is in this section rather than Contro, that I can't tell you.

 

[Blade]

"Why would an all-loving God want billions of people to suffer eternally just because they never knew about His existence or had a chance to love Him?"

When I was about 15 I asked Him how can you send all these people to hell. He answered back "For God so loved the world. Everyone gets a choice". There is much about this we don't know. We do know hell was made for Satan and his angels. Man is not sinless yet all of this sin evil you can think of came from Satan. He didn't just fall and say.. oops sorry. No look at what he has done since the fall.

As for people as you said "suffer eternally". What did Jesus say? "If you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains". For me the ones lost will be those that know that they know that they know JESUS CHRIST was the way the truth and the life and reject Him anyway. Look at Christ walked this earth what 33 years look how His own treated Him yet on the cross through it all said what? Father forgive them.

In Rev its written John sees all these people from ever tribe and nation no one can number. Those were just those from the great tribulation Yeah.. God is not like man does not think like man. Not like a Judge here that will give you a ticket for say .. no mud flaps on your truck. You ask "where is that written?" Yeah haha that guy told me he never even heard about that law yet got a ticket anyway. GOD is not like man. Just look at NOW.. saved and sinner all living in under around everything GOD made. He loves them so much He left heaven for them/us.

Again He is not like man so when He does judge (great white throne) there will be no "wow this is the 15k time I heard this.. its getting old" haha.. no each one is different and He has never heard their story (so to speak). And no fallen angels demons do not after judgement come pull you off to hell. I heard that one. Nor are they down in hell ..hello a place made for them not man.. tormenting man. They will be in it.

 

[rwb]

Name one being that ever asked to be created before God created them. Before the beginning, what was God doing in the meantime? God has no beginning, yet, everything that He created does. What was God thinking about before He decided to create everything? Did He not know that before He created all these things, a good portion of His creation are not going to obey Him, therefore, He needs to prepare a place for them so that He can torture all of these for forever? Or should we assume an all knowing God did not realize that before He created everything, and realized it after the fact?

One thing God was thinking about before creation was how He would redeem and give eternal life to whosoever believes Christ for salvation. We know the plans God has for mankind was ordained in heaven before creation through the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. It's true God knew before creation that when He created male/female with complete autonomy that they would never freely choose to submit to God for life everlasting.

That's why before the foundation of the world God provided an answer for both sin and death that God knew the man and woman would need to have eternal life with Him. The Kingdom was prepared for whosoever would turn to Christ for life from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 25:34 (KJV) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

God also knew before creation that as you have said a good portion of His created would not submit to Christ for life. They would always be dead in trespasses and sins. So God has also prepared a place for them, a place for those cursed by God, and a place of everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his messengers, which is how angels are defined. Whosoever is not of Christ is of the devil and destined for this place.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Some verses of Scripture make us believe all who are cast into the everlasting fire will be in agony forever. And there are other verses that indicate the flames are eternal, and those who are cast there are burned up. The only thing I can say with confidence is what I read in Scripture. Death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire that is the second death, and whosoever not found written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. Is death figurative, or literal???

Revelation 20:14-15 (KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Finally, whether the lake of fire means a second and final death for those cast there or eternal suffering for those I leave to the judgment to God alone. But what is impossible to deny is that hell as both the grave and, in some verses, the second death (LOF) exist and many there will be that go there. Eternal life is promised only to those who in life turn to Christ by grace through faith and in repentance believe Him for life everlasting. The rest sadly will experience suffering such as cannot be imagined either until consumed by the second death or eternally.

 

[Mink61]

But comparing that to what God allegedly does, that He allegedly tortures humans in literal hellfire forever, is not my idea of someone that still loves the ones He is allowing to be tortured like that. Those God has cast into the LOF, regardless what happens to them after that, God hates every single one of these, otherwise He would not be able to do what many allege He does to them, tortures them beyond belief for forever.

If I had the power to cast others into literal hellfire and have the power to torture them forever, could I or would I do it? Absolutely not since someone would have to be the most sadistic person on the planet to do that to someone. Even though I hate the likes of Hitler, Jeffery Daumer, to name a few, I still couldn't torture them in literal hellfire forever, even if I had the power to do so. So, where did I initially get this idea from that to be sadistic beyond belief is not good, nor reasonable, nor acceptable, or where did anyone get that idea from if they agree? Could not have received this idea from God if those are things He actually does Himself.

Perhaps it's your idea of hell that's skewed.

 

[DavidPT]

Perhaps it's your idea of hell that's skewed.

What is it you assume is my idea of hell? A lot of what I submitted is not my idea of hell, but the idea of other interpreters. What I do think about hell is this, though. It's a literal place and the fire there is literal. Some interpreters, the ones who believe hell to be never ending, in regards to humans, insist the fire is not literal. I guess that way it makes hell not so bad after all. Could they or would they continue to believe hell is never ending for humans if they were instead convinced the fire is literal?

 

[GirdYourLoins]

I see heaven as being in the presence of the perfect and holy God, with the overwhelming perfect love being the very essence of existence in His presence. By contract hell is knowing the love of God but being cast away from it. The regret of being completely separated from God being the worst part of it.

 

[Sheila Davis]

My mom, a Methodist who was raised Presbyterian, does not believe hell exists just because God is love. It makes no sense that the most loving Person in the world would want to make any dead people suffer excruciating pain forever. After all, look at how many miracles God performed on people for the purpose of eliminating physical and psychological suffering, even on people who do not know Him.

Recently, non-Christians have been telling me if hell is real, we believe in a "wicked" god and it is better to not to be a Christian because of our belief all non-believers will suffer this way after a physical death. This is totally understandable. Unfortunately, I was taught being a Christian requires believing in a literal hell at an evangelical church.

What can I tell non-believers to make them understand the existence of hell does not mean we believe in an evil God?

Why would an all-loving God want billions of people to suffer eternally just because they never knew about His existence or had a chance to love Him? (Yes, I know God wants people to love Him, but there's no way that can be done now with nearly 8 billion people on the planet.)

Scripture tells us hell was created for the devil and his angels
Matthew 25:41 KJV - Then shall he say also unto them on the - Bible Gateway

All nations in the world have had the opportunity to hear the gospel - they have refused it - such as North Korea, or China. Supposedly they say there are at least 100 uncontacted tribes - uncontacted is somewhat misleading - they should be referred to as living in isolation - they have been contacted, they just refuse what so-called civilization brings, so they have rejected the opportunity to hear of Jesus.
52 Countries Where the Bible is Illegal | Love Packages

Anthropology: The sad truth about uncontacted tribes

The church loves to preach of God's love and they have stopped preaching of his anger, and his wrath, or even his jealousy, which is also written in Scripture. It's quite simple he told us what he wants and he told us the consequences by not doing what he wants. And what he wants is harmony, peace, love with and for one another - there is nothing wrong with that. The world would be a far better place if it was so. And he will not have anyone in his kingdom that refuses to do what he ask.

Is what is this called hell an actual place of eternal torment or is it a place of the annihilation of the spirit for eternity? Different church's belief is divided on that subject. My personal belief it is both spirit and body will be destroyed in what we call hell. Destroy means put it in to existence.

MATTHEW 10:28 KJV "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is..."

 

[Sparagmos]

My mom, a Methodist who was raised Presbyterian, does not believe hell exists just because God is love. It makes no sense that the most loving Person in the world would want to make any dead people suffer excruciating pain forever. After all, look at how many miracles God performed on people for the purpose of eliminating physical and psychological suffering, even on people who do not know Him.

Recently, non-Christians have been telling me if hell is real, we believe in a "wicked" god and it is better to not to be a Christian because of our belief all non-believers will suffer this way after a physical death. This is totally understandable. Unfortunately, I was taught being a Christian requires believing in a literal hell at an evangelical church.

What can I tell non-believers to make them understand the existence of hell does not mean we believe in an evil God?

Why would an all-loving God want billions of people to suffer eternally just because they never knew about His existence or had a chance to love Him? (Yes, I know God wants people to love Him, but there's no way that can be done now with nearly 8 billion people on the planet.)

I think you need to let go of the idea you can change their minds. I don’t believe in hell and I’ve heard all of the arguments given here; most people have. It just doesn’t add up for many of us and that’s unlikely to change.

 

[GodLovesCats]

God is righteous to punish the wicked who will not repent, so that we will know that His gift of salvation through the death of His Son is not cheap salvation. It is His priceless gift to those who are being saved, we who are being saved need to understand the terrible future from which we a being saved. This is an infinitely great salvation and God is worthy of all the glory, honour and praise which we can give Him. This is why heaven is going to be filled with His praises and we shall be in awe of what God has done for us!

But obviously hell was created before Jesus came down because He told people to "fear" going there after they die. What was it for when all of God's people were Jews or the children of Jews?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Next question: Why should people be worthy of eternal suffering in the "lake of fire" when they are dead?

When you die, you lose all of your senses, you ability to think, etc. Suffering is impossible when you are a corpse or ashes. All this talk about the "second death" implies nonbelievers will not come back to life later and then start feeling miserable forever. Is this what happens to them?

 

[Trusting in Him]

But obviously hell was created before Jesus came down because He told people to "fear" going there after they die. What was it for when all of God's people were Jews or the children of Jews?

It always been there for it's original purpose. God does not need a plan B!

 

[Trusting in Him]

Next question: Why should people be worthy of eternal suffering in the "lake of fire" when they are dead?

When you die, you lose all of your senses, you ability to think, etc. Suffering is impossible when you are a corpse or ashes. All this talk about the "second death" implies nonbelievers will not come back to life later and then start feeling miserable forever. Is this what happens to them?

Those who God saves go to heaven, but those who choose to live unrighteous live and not repent, they go to hell. There is not a third option!

 

[GodLovesCats]

I think you need to let go of the idea you can change their minds. I don’t believe in hell and I’ve heard all of the arguments given here; most people have. It just doesn’t add up for many of us and that’s unlikely to change.

Agnostics and atheists sometimes ask me for proof God exists, that heaven and hell exist, etc.

 

[Timtofly]

If I had the power to cast others into literal hellfire and have the power to torture them forever, could I or would I do it? Absolutely not since someone would have to be the most sadistic person on the planet to do that to someone. Even though I hate the likes of Hitler, Jeffery Daumer, to name a few, I still couldn't torture them in literal hellfire forever, even if I had the power to do so. So, where did I initially get this idea from that to be sadistic beyond belief is not good, nor reasonable, nor acceptable, or where did anyone get that idea from if they agree? Could not have received this idea from God if those are things He actually does Himself.

Human morality is definitely not the same as God's morality. You are looking at life with a flawed perspective from the start. When humans start thinking evil is good, and good is evil, they have lost the mental capability to see creation as God sees creation.

 

[Trusting in Him]

Agnostics and atheists sometimes ask me for proof God exists, that heaven and hell exist, etc.

Letting agnotics and atheiests believe something, which the bible clearly shows is not true, it not going to convince such people that they need to turn to God and be saved!

 

[Sparagmos]

Agnostics and atheists sometimes ask me for proof God exists, that heaven and hell exist, etc.

I think you should be honest with them. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that you arrived at your belief in hell by way of faith, not because you saw adequate evidence or heard a rational argument. Because you wouldn’t be here asking for advice on how to explain something if you already understood it from a place of logic. Logic didn’t convince you, faith did. Building a case for something you already believe, after you already believe it, is not an objective way of finding the truth. I’d be honest snd tell them you don’t have evidence or tell them what convinced you. What the thing was that made you start believing in hell.

 

[Sparagmos]

Letting agnotics and atheiests believe something, which the bible clearly shows is not true, it not going to convince such people that they need to turn to God and be saved!

Using the Bible as a source of truth requires faith, and agnostics and atheists don’t have faith. They want to apply the same type of reasoning, testing, and science as they do with everything else. If something exists, then like anything else that want to see evidence of it. Anyone can say unicorns and dragons exist, but since there is no evidence we know that they don’t. They want the same standards applied to religious claims, can you blame them?

 

[rwb]

I think you should be honest with them. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that you arrived at your belief in hell by way of faith, not because you saw adequate evidence or heard a rational argument. Because you wouldn’t be here asking for advice on how to explain something if you already understood it from a place of logic. Logic didn’t convince you, faith did. Building a case for something you already believe, after you already believe it, is not an objective way of finding the truth. I’d be honest snd tell them you don’t have evidence or tell them what convinced you. What the thing was that made you start believing in hell.

I think it has more to do with emotionalism than it does faith! It is often found those who deny a place of torment for the unjust, as well as those who argue for universal salvation are typically allowing their emotions to overrule the truth found in the Word of God. It's more about how they FEEL regardless of what the Word says.