Why does God not stop the evil?

[seeking Christ]

Ah, I see.... so the undoubtedly immoral act of human sacrifice was made right by the righteous, holy and moral act of genocide.

You have demonstrated not knowing what a strawman is or at least refusing to see one when it stares you in the face, so lets just say you're wrong and this isn't worth addressing.

Also, if you have a problem with Human Sacrifice, then why do you follow a religion built around one?

See above. If all you want to do is belittle Christianity go sign up on I hate God.com, this isn't the place for it.

 

[Dave Ellis]

So we see in these passages you bring up, a moral dilemma that for God to put a stop to evil (the thread title) He must create evil.

That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

That's like saying the only way to stop the Nazis was to create an even bigger holocaust than they did.

It's an age old philosophical principle that two wrongs do not make a right. I would assume your God would be aware of this fact as well.

If he is indeed moral and all powerful, then he would have the ability to defeat evil using good and moral methods. After all, people such as Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King were able to as mere mortals. Are you saying your God can't live up to their example?

 

[Davian]

Ok glad I asked it as a question. So you have never been a Christian then?





Now there is a tough question! Not sure I can address that one without just making it even more confusing than it already is. Can I ask if anyone here would ever do either one, and if not that the question isn't applicable?

Is that you, raze?

 

[seeking Christ]

a point that you can't refute?

Don't make me laugh. There is no point here I can't refute, but this nonsense of trying to make everything happen all at once is for the birds.

 

[seeking Christ]

That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

That's like saying the only way to stop the Nazis was to create an even bigger holocaust than they did.

Which is exactly what happened. You never heard of D-Day either.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Anytime you want to stop just making stuff up and deal with reality, let us know.

He raised a very valid point which you again are simply ignoring. Again, dismissing the argument does not mean it's invalid.

Demonstrate why that point is wrong. Are you saying god is completely incapable of defeating evil using non-evil methods?

 

[Dave Ellis]

And yet no matter what info is presented to you you ignore in and return to your folly. How does that pass for honest conversation again?

I believe this is an example of the pot calling the kettle black

 

[Dave Ellis]

You have demonstrated not knowing what a strawman is or at least refusing to see one when it stares you in the face, so lets just say you're wrong and this isn't worth addressing.

Care to point out where the strawman in the argument is, or are you simply dodging again?

See above. If all you want to do is belittle Christianity go sign up on I hate God.com, this isn't the place for it.

I'm not belittling, I'm asking questions of it. If you can show me where I am wrong, I am all ears.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Don't make me laugh. There is no point here I can't refute, but this nonsense of trying to make everything happen all at once is for the birds.

Well then, how about you actually try refuting an argument, rather than telling us all about how you can refute everything.

 

[seeking Christ]

If you can show me where I am wrong, I am all ears.

When have you known a human sacrifice to get up and administrate leadership? You're not making any sense.

 

[seeking Christ]

Well then, how about you actually try refuting an argument, rather than telling us all about how you can refute everything.

You can read through other people struggling their way through this, and become much better informed yourself in the process. Its not like this is the 3rd post you know.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Which is exactly what happened. You never heard of D-Day either.

I notice you left out the part about MLK and Nelson Mandela, the people who defeated evil with good.

That being said, comparing D-Day to the holocaust is simply absurd. One was the systematic murder of innocent people based on race, or other similar characteristics.

The other was a military action in the middle of a major war.

In short, one was a genocide, the other was not.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No sir, I already snipped out for you the relevant part of the text you're willfully skipping over, so you couldn't miss it. You can see WHY God intended for them to die, and that has nothing to do their tribe; instead it is judgment for action.

What we are left with is God judges us, and it sux to be in that position. This presents a moral dilemma, which is the whole purpose of both the story and its inclusion in what we call Scripture; but I just took 3 steps WAY ahead of what you're stuck on. Go back and establish WHY.



That stretches the definition beyond all meaning. Again, this is judgment for action.



Too vague and general to answer, and frankly those specific situations are much more difficult to deal with than the other situations that you're still having difficulty with, so lets resolve those first.

You still haven't answered my question about the children, and I suspect now that you never will.

 

[seeking Christ]

You still haven't answered my question about the children, and I suspect now that you never will.

Sorry, what was your question? Why not focus on what Loudmouth is asking about, and get that much settled first before we delve into harder things?

 

[Dave Ellis]

When have you known a human sacrifice to get up and administrate leadership? You're not making any sense.

So Jesus didn't die for your sins?

And before you throw out the inevitable strawman accusation, yes, this is a relevant point. A sacrifice is the killing of a person in atonement for something.

Jesus was killed (sacrificed), in atonement for the sins of humanity. Furthermore, Christians have often told me in order to be saved, I have to "accept his sacrifice", worded exactly that way.

Unless Jesus was sacrificed, then he did not atone for your sins, and his whole character is irrelevant.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Sorry, what was your question? Why not focus on what Loudmouth is asking about, and get that much settled first before we delve into harder things?

What do you mean by harder things? I've been asking you about the killing of children from the very beginning and several pages later you are still stalling. What's the hold-up?

 

[Dave Ellis]

You can read through other people struggling their way through this, and become much better informed yourself in the process. Its not like this is the 3rd post you know.

Reading the other dozens of posts you've written that do nothing more than brush aside questions aren't going to be all that informative either.

 

[seeking Christ]

So Jesus didn't die for your sins?

And before you throw out the inevitable strawman accusation, yes, this is a relevant point. A sacrifice is the killing of a person in atonement for something.

Jesus was killed (sacrificed), in atonement for the sins of humanity.

Please explain to me the workings of any human sacrifice you know of. Now compare that to how Jesus died, condemned as a criminal but with no criminal charge and no conviction either.

Give any thought to this at all and you are forced to see that your idea here is simply false.

Furthermore, Christians have often told me in order to be saved, I have to "accept his sacrifice", worded exactly that way.

Please give Biblical support for your favored doctrine. Since you can't do that you can't very well expect me to buy into it, can you?

Now what I will say is that obviously that approach didn't make sense to you, and I can commend you for being correct. At the same time that can be very confusing to many Christians today, so you can expect any number of confusing and diverging viewpoints to show up here. Maybe this is why we don't try to shove every possible issue into one thread?

Unless Jesus was sacrificed, then he did not atone for your sins, and his whole character is irrelevant.

Dave, you're in no position to make any such assertion. In fact you have this entirely backwards, but again, this is the wrong thread for that HUGE topic.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Please explain to me the workings of any human sacrifice you know of. Now compare that to how Jesus died, condemned as a criminal but with no criminal charge and no conviction either.

Give any thought to this at all and you are forced to see that your idea here is simply false.



Please give Biblical support for your favored doctrine. Since you can't do that you can't very well expect me to buy into it, can you?

Now what I will say is that obviously that approach didn't make sense to you, and I can commend you for being correct. At the same time that can be very confusing to many Christians today, so you can expect any number of confusing and diverging viewpoints to show up here. Maybe this is why we don't try to shove every possible issue into one thread?



Dave, you're in no position to make any such assertion. In fact you have this entirely backwards, but again, this is the wrong thread for that HUGE topic.

Fair enough, I grant your concession that Jesus was not sacrificed to atone for the sins of humanity and was nothing more than a street preacher murdered by the Romans.

Likewise, since he was not sacrificed, then the Old Testament sacrificial laws are still in effect. I recommend you go buy a couple goats.

 

[seeking Christ]

Fair enough, I grant your concession that Jesus was not sacrificed to atone for the sins of humanity and was nothing more than a street preacher murdered by the Romans.

Says the main who denies erecting strawmen. I'll ognore you any day, baby!