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In other words, brinny, Tavita here just REdefines anything that gets in the way ....our scholars apparently were complete morons and our God completely INEPT and UNABLE to protect His word for many centuries....The Greek word, Hades, and the Hebrew, Sheol, are the place of the dead until the resurrections which are translated as Hell in our older versions of the Bible.
Gehenna was a rubbish dump outside the gates of Jerusalem where the bodies of criminals were thrown. There were also huge worms that lived in the dump and the fires burned continuously. They burn no longer as the area is a parkland now.
The Lake of Fire is the second death described only in the Revelation of Jesus Christ where the enemies of God are burned. Nowhere in scripture does it say this burning is endless. To go into the Greek meanings of the words, forever, eternal and eternity is another subject, but the English words to not really portray the real meanings/interpretations of the words.
The second death takes place after the Great White Throne Judgment.
Originally Posted by brinny
Yet, God speaks differently on it. There have always, always will be, those that question..."did He really say..?"...from waaay back in the Garden of Eden the same dynamic took place. God calls the originator of this dynamic a liar and the father of lies.
Can you show me what you're talking about in reference to Hell?
Can you also show me where in Genesis God declared that the consequences for sin is an endless torment? Can you show me anywhere in the OT that He declared this to man?
What did He say was the consequence for sin? You tell me...
Oh deary me!
Better get your head into it too, you obviously have not studied up on any of this.
Pathetic nonsense.Can you also show me where in Genesis God declared that the consequences for sin is an endless torment?
Yeah, we can,...and its been shown to you BEFORE but you just ignore itCan you show me anywhere in the OT that He declared this to man?
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
some to everlasting life, and
some to shame and everlasting contempt.
(Dan 12:2 KJV)
H5769
עלם / עולם
‛ôlâm
BDB Definition:
1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
1a) ancient time, long time (of past)
1b) (of future)
1b1) for ever, always
1b2) continuous existence, perpetual
1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity
Nothing but semantics.Scripture says He saved us from sin and death..... where does it say He saved us from endless torment?
How can He save us from endless torment when He didn't go there Himself?
And this 'last enemy' you folks run on about has been EXPOSED as not being what you are claiming it is.Death is the last enemy that will be destroyed... how can anyone 'live' in death endlessly? It's an oxymoron. Unbelievers do not have immortality.
We see in this previous passage that resurrection is the reviving of our bodies from the corruptible into the incorruptible. We will be raised with spiritual bodies instead of these worn down shells that are prone to sickness and death.Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain and your faith also is vain! And we are found to be false witnesses of God, because we bore witness concerning God, that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise--if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then neither has Christ been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have died in Christ have perished.
If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have died. For since by a man death came, also by a Man comes the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then those who belong to Christ at His coming. Then will be the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God, even the Father, when He abolishes every ruler and every authority and power. For He must reign till He puts all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For "He has subjected all things under His feet." But when He says that "all things have been subjected," it is evident that this is except for Him who subjected all things to Him.
Now when all things are made subject to Him, then also the Son Himself will be subjected to Him who subjected all things to Him, in order that God may be all in all. Otherwise, what will they do who are being baptized for the dead, if the dead are not raised at all? Why are they also baptized for the dead? And why are we also in danger every hour? I affirm, by my boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If, in the manner of men, I fought with beasts at Ephesus, what is the benefit to me? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!" Do not be deceived: "Evil associations corrupts good habits." Awake to righteousness, and do not sin, for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what sort of body do they come?" Fool, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that will be, but a bare grain--perhaps wheat or some other grains. But God gives to it a body just as He desired, and to each of the seeds its own body. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is a different kind of flesh for men, and another flesh for beasts, another for fish, and another for birds. And there are celestial bodies, and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead.
The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory.
It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Thus also it is written, "The first man Adam became a living soul;" the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, that which is spiritual is not first, but that which is natural, then that which is spiritual.
(1Co 15:12-46 EMTV)
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(Joh 5)
I'm sorry. I thought you knew the Bible. Do you?
Originally Posted by brinny
i could be wrong, sister in Christ, but for some reason i get a sense you're yelling sorta as you type your words.
Wanna talk about it?
LOL!.. I'm not yelling at anyone. Sure you're not imagining things?
You haven't answered my questions yet or acknowledged any scripture I've given you.
Is this the only way you can communicate? Or don't you have anything to back up what you say?
I say it again.... you haven't answered my questions.
I'm sorry. I thought you knew the Bible. Do you?
Can you show me what you're talking about in reference to Hell?
Can you also show me where in Genesis God declared that the consequences for sin is an endless torment? Can you show me anywhere in the OT that He declared this to man?
What did He say was the consequence for sin? You tell me...
How sweet of you chaela.
what i'm finding interesting is that HuntingMan has, and they've been ignored.
Maybe we can get some different responces and more people involved, rather that just debate UR.
Why does God need to torture people for eternity?
What is this place that unbelievers are destined for, that Christians are trying (or supposed to be trying) so desperately to save people from? Whatever it is, God died so I wouldnt have to go there.
Hell, God's eternal torture chamber, where the greater part of all humanity will spend eternity. What is the purpose of this place? Well, punishment, Christians tell us. But punishment for what purpose? Since there is no remedial value to hell, no chance of learning your lesson and getting let out, what good does the punishment do?
Even the most cruel human torturers usually have a reason for their torture. Make the appropriate confessions, tell them what they want to know, and the torture will usually stop. Or at the very least, you can eventually die. But Christians make God out to be the very worst kind of torturer
As a Christian, I was always uncomfortable with this. In an attempt to explain hell while leaving God's reputation for fairness intact, I deferred to a more C.S. Lewis-type explanation. Rather than having God create a place like Hell and sending people there, I saw Hell more as a result of rejecting God. It was the ultimate "you got what you asked for." God was saying, "You really don't want me around? Fine. I'll leave." And the result was hell, the absence of everything good, which vanished when God did.
But then traditional christianity teaches God is omnipresent..all places at all times...how can he be that and not be in hell.
In America we pride ourselves in prohibiting something called "cruel and unusual punishment." We look aghast at dictatorial regimes that torture its prisoners and dissidents. Yet even the worst atrocities committed under the cruelest tyrants of this world are nothing when compared to what Christians say God has in store for us. A poignant way to illustrate this is to look at what Christians believe about Jews, especially Jews that were imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps. Although Christians generally do not discuss this, it is what they must believe, for it is built into their system of "divine justice."
Christians define as hell bound anyone who does not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. This includes just about all practicing Jews. So imagine this scenario: as the millions of Jews slaughtered in Hitler's death camps passed into the afterlife, they awoke to find themselves burning in hell. Not only was there a lack of food there, there was no food. Not only was there poor drinking water, there was no water. Not only was there pain, there was the most intense pain imaginable, and it was unrelenting. Sort of like being tossed into the ovens of Auschwitz alive over and over. And not only did this suffering just seem like it would never end, it really never would.
Most of these Jews certainly were praying to God, loved him, cherished
the moment they were released from the pain, Certainly at nights you could hear the cries and pleas to God as they suffered so. Just imagine how they will feel when they face the God they loved and find he is worse than Hitler.
Simply what is it in God's Character the need to torture forever...or for you moderates,,seperate himself forever from the mass of his creation.
You're right, brother, this idea of etenal suffering in hell is a falsehood,
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