- Oct 7, 2010
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I've been struggling with a certain question lately and have not been able to find, or think of, a single explanation for why God expects everyone to admit His existence (I assume that to admit that He is the Lord, you're going to then submit to him).
The issue I have is that if you look at the Bible and its contents from a rational standpoint, there is no reason to believe it. Yes, we know that there was a guy who claimed to be the messiah who died on a cross, but that does not confirm that he was a real messiah (though obviously I think that he was).
You can't look at everything in the world and rationally conclude 'Jesus died for my sins' or even 'there must be a divine creator', even with input from historians and the Bible itself (for the Bible is not necessarily self-supporting to a skeptical mind).
God does not give a person who reads the Bible from a skeptical point of view an obvious reason to believe that the Bible is right, or anywhere near it. With a complete lack of evidence and the fact that the Bible is a book of ancient theology (written, depending on the book, anywhere from six to two thousand years ago) where the OT regularly tells us of things which are either impossible or blatantly false (see: Noah's Ark - there is no reason to believe that there was a mass extinction that effected humanity anywhere in the past 250,000 years, EG since modern humans entered the world).
It doesn't seem to matter how much a person searches - if they apply a reasonable amount of skepticism, nothing is going to conclude to a big picture which makes sense and fits together. Not without faith.
And that's the problem: Faith is irrational! But we're all expected to have faith in the Lord and to come to Him. It doesn't make very much sense to me for God to give us the ability to reason, but at the same time not involve that reason in discovering Him. Essentially, there is no reason to be faithful.
RE: Creation of the universe - God didn't have to make it. And if God made it, who made God? And who made the thing that made God? And who made the thing that made the thing that made God? ... And on and on. There's no reason to believe that the universe is divinely created.
RE: Multiple kinds of faith - Many people argue that there are 'multiple kinds of faith', one of which is getting on an airplane and not expecting for it to crash (EG: For reality to be consistent). However, I wouldn't say that this is faith, but you getting on a plane fervently hoping it won't crash by trusting the pilot, mechanics, etc. to do their jobs right. Yes, that is a kind of faith, but it's not a religious faith - it's a rational one. There is every reason to believe that your plane is (probably) not going to crash. There is no reasoning pointing directly to a divine creator, much less one who actively involves Himself in our lives.
RE: But look at Christians! We seek after the Lord, and those who do so are happy and calm and stuff! - This doesn't mean much. It could easily just be a case of sample bias, or something completely unassociated with faith in the Lord that all of these people have in common. There is no rational reason to believe that the Lord works with people from a skeptical, faithless view.
I just don't get it. Why doesn't it all wrap up? The big picture doesn't come together without faith, so there isn't a way to come to God (to gain faith) through rational thought. Why would God expect everyone to come to Him if, for rational and skeptical people, there is no reason to come to Him?
I has a confused.
James
The issue I have is that if you look at the Bible and its contents from a rational standpoint, there is no reason to believe it. Yes, we know that there was a guy who claimed to be the messiah who died on a cross, but that does not confirm that he was a real messiah (though obviously I think that he was).
You can't look at everything in the world and rationally conclude 'Jesus died for my sins' or even 'there must be a divine creator', even with input from historians and the Bible itself (for the Bible is not necessarily self-supporting to a skeptical mind).
God does not give a person who reads the Bible from a skeptical point of view an obvious reason to believe that the Bible is right, or anywhere near it. With a complete lack of evidence and the fact that the Bible is a book of ancient theology (written, depending on the book, anywhere from six to two thousand years ago) where the OT regularly tells us of things which are either impossible or blatantly false (see: Noah's Ark - there is no reason to believe that there was a mass extinction that effected humanity anywhere in the past 250,000 years, EG since modern humans entered the world).
It doesn't seem to matter how much a person searches - if they apply a reasonable amount of skepticism, nothing is going to conclude to a big picture which makes sense and fits together. Not without faith.
And that's the problem: Faith is irrational! But we're all expected to have faith in the Lord and to come to Him. It doesn't make very much sense to me for God to give us the ability to reason, but at the same time not involve that reason in discovering Him. Essentially, there is no reason to be faithful.
RE: Creation of the universe - God didn't have to make it. And if God made it, who made God? And who made the thing that made God? And who made the thing that made the thing that made God? ... And on and on. There's no reason to believe that the universe is divinely created.
RE: Multiple kinds of faith - Many people argue that there are 'multiple kinds of faith', one of which is getting on an airplane and not expecting for it to crash (EG: For reality to be consistent). However, I wouldn't say that this is faith, but you getting on a plane fervently hoping it won't crash by trusting the pilot, mechanics, etc. to do their jobs right. Yes, that is a kind of faith, but it's not a religious faith - it's a rational one. There is every reason to believe that your plane is (probably) not going to crash. There is no reasoning pointing directly to a divine creator, much less one who actively involves Himself in our lives.
RE: But look at Christians! We seek after the Lord, and those who do so are happy and calm and stuff! - This doesn't mean much. It could easily just be a case of sample bias, or something completely unassociated with faith in the Lord that all of these people have in common. There is no rational reason to believe that the Lord works with people from a skeptical, faithless view.
I just don't get it. Why doesn't it all wrap up? The big picture doesn't come together without faith, so there isn't a way to come to God (to gain faith) through rational thought. Why would God expect everyone to come to Him if, for rational and skeptical people, there is no reason to come to Him?
I has a confused.
James