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What real thing is it you are calling 'God'?That is just a rather bad excuse to avoid the inevitable fact that if you drop your senses to sin, you will perceive God.
It's not like the Bible doesn't adamantly teach this from beginning to end. You are incapable of doing such, and so you will never do what is required- therein you ridicule it.
If 99.99% of Americans believed that you are really a hippopotamus, would that mean you are a hippopotamus?I'm not sure what you mean by "outside religion". Name one scientist that's accepted today outside of science.Name one prophet that is accepted today; outside religion. If you cant, your argument fails
But to your point, about 70% of Americans believe that Jesus was a prophet. He's pretty well accepted.
How do you know there were multitudes of eyewitness testimonies?Why dismiss the multitudes of eyewitness testimonies that came from the first century?Too bad there is no proof he actually rose from the dead huh!
What do you mean by 'saves sinners'? Give me some of your best examples of sinners.God is a God who saves sinners. There need to be sinners in order for God to be seen as a savior.Well it does! Now why would an all wise God use a church wrecked with credibility issues to manifest his tangibility?
Can you demonstrate that God does exist?Here we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that you know that God exists but you just very much dislike this idea.No, the first issue is his existence; there is no empirical evidence that your God exist. That is clear to all.
Really. If each god is visible, then in this day and age of the internet, why don't we see photos of god plastered all over the internet?Every god is visible. Who is not?
As far as the second question, it is not logically right.
I think he asked you to demonstrate a way in which God is visible. Let's try this: if a photograph were taken of a visible god and shown to both a non-believer and a believer, would each of them see precisely the same thing in the photograph?You name one to me, and I will show how is that god look like.
What do you suppose is his reason for now showing God?Your claim, show and demonstrate how God's are visible.
Assuming a god exists, it has chosen to remain invisible. Just how does it better serve this god's agenda to have a world in which he doesn't manifest himself in reality? A world in which an existent god which doesn't manifest itself in reality is indistinguishable from a non-existent god?
Furthermore, why would a god set up a system in which our salvation is dependent upon believing something to exist on insufficient evidence?
How do you know this?God did not remain invisible all throughout history.
How do you know that the human named Jesus was actually a god?God walked as a man called Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.
Just how does a man claiming to be God actually make him God?It's historically verifiable and confirmable that there was such a man called Jesus Christ who was crucified under Pontius Pilate upon a charge by Israel religious leader for outright blasphemy, ie. claiming that He is God made flesh.
What attributes are you talking about? And how do you know these things are evidence of a god?In fact, God's invisibility is not a hindrance to any man from knowing His existence since Paul in Romans 1 clearly write that mankind throughout history are without excuse for claiming ignorance because God's attributes and eternal power are perceivable from the things that are made in this universe.
Why should we not believe our fellow men? Wasn't it humans who wrote the Bible?But most men don't perceive because they don't seek to perceive with a learning, humbled heart and mind and they go into it with preconceived ideas taught to them by fellow men. (Like human theories on evolution etc) Men are inclined to try to be their own gods and with such an attitude, how do they expect to understand in their pride and stubbornness?
God did not remain invisible all throughout history. God walked as a man called Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. It's historically verifiable and confirmable that there was such a man called Jesus Christ who was crucified under Pontius Pilate upon a charge by Israel religious leader for outright blasphemy, ie. claiming that He is God made flesh.
WoundedDeep said:In fact, God's invisibility is not a hindrance to any man from knowing His existence since Paul in Romans 1 clearly write that mankind throughout history are without excuse for claiming ignorance because God's attributes and eternal power are perceivable from the things that are made in this universe.
WoundedDeep said:But most men don't perceive because they don't seek to perceive with a learning, humbled heart and mind and they go into it with preconceived ideas taught to them by fellow men. (Like human theories on evolution etc)
Men are inclined to try to be their own gods and with such an attitude, how do they expect to understand in their pride and stubbornness?
How do you know this?
How do you know that the human named Jesus was actually a god?
Just how does a man claiming to be God actually make him God?
How do you know this?
What attributes are you talking about? And how do you know these things are evidence of a god?
Why should we not believe our fellow men? Wasn't it humans who wrote the Bible?
I've been out of Christianity for about four years, and identify myself as an atheist. But, lately, I've been exploring this void within myself, and why I have it.
When I think about God, and what I thought him to be at one time...he was everything, yet I couldn't see him. And that is faith. Faith requires no logic, or evidence...it is a belief that god is real, somehow...somewhere.
The question becomes...does there need to be evidence?
I've been out of Christianity for about four years, and identify myself as an atheist. But, lately, I've been exploring this void within myself, and why I have it.
When I think about God, and what I thought him to be at one time...he was everything, yet I couldn't see him. And that is faith. Faith requires no logic, or evidence...it is a belief that god is real, somehow...somewhere.
The question becomes...does there need to be evidence?
Sure. And evidence of God is EVERYWHERE.
The problem is: do you accept any of them?
Any man can go around claiming to be a god in the flesh, and the odds are, they WILL be accused of blasphemy, mental illness. No different then as it is now.
But just because such a man makes such a claim, does not mean it is true
God's attributes and eternal power are NOT perceivable to me from the things that are made in this universe. This is a genuine reason not an excuse.
Dont forget human theories on creation (as per Genesis and hundreds of others) too.
How does a man be a god? From my experience it is usually men of unwavering faith and loyalty, to the literal interpretation of outdated religious holy books, that display pride and stubborness. I think you may be projecting here.
I imagine that, if you believe in a deity, you might think that everything is evidence for its reality, but might this not also arise by confirmation bias?
Jesus did not just claim, but He proved it with His deeds of healing and driving out demons and many more, miracles no one in His time could do.
A simple question can get you to perceive: who or what defined the physical laws of nature or the laws of gravity? You know full well human laws are set and don't somehow evolve out of nothing, so how did the laws seen in this universe come about without an intelligent Being setting them and putting them in place? Common sense tells you the laws observed in the universe are in fact set up and therefore there must be a Creator who created the universe.
Human theories on creation? I'm not sure what theories you refer to but Genesis is not a record of theories but rather a historical record of what happened before the time of Moses. It was written by Moses who had a personal experience with God and God revealed the history of mankind to him. To be able to record events and people generations before you is not possible with human wisdom, therefore God is the author of Genesis, not man.
it does not matter. YOU are the only one it is concerned. If YOU take the evidences, that is good enough.
Just like I believe and you don't. I talk to you, but I don't really care what you (or anyone) think about my faith. If you think I am wrong about any evidence, then we can talk about it.
Jesus did not just claim, but He proved it with His deeds of healing and driving out demons and many more, miracles no one in His time could do. He made it all the more undeniable when He endured pain and death on a cross and then later resurrecting from physical death leaving His tomb empty by appearing with His resurrected body to many who believe in Him. Not a single men in history could raise himself from physical death, of course then their claims of messiahship or deity is blasphemy. Not so with Jesus Christ. .
A simple question can get you to perceive: who or what defined the physical laws of nature or the laws of gravity? You know full well human laws are set and don't somehow evolve out of nothing, so how did the laws seen in this universe come about without an intelligent Being setting them and putting them in place? Common sense tells you the laws observed in the universe are in fact set up and therefore there must be a Creator who created the universe.
Human theories on creation? I'm not sure what theories you refer to but Genesis is not a record of theories but rather a historical record of what happened before the time of Moses. It was written by Moses who had a personal experience with God and God revealed the history of mankind to him. To be able to record events and people generations before you is not possible with human wisdom, therefore God is the author of Genesis, not man.
A man become his own god when he considers himself above God and thus refuse to obey Him or revere Him. A man becomes his own god when he perceives himself as the source of wisdom and life and power and thus rejects God as the ultimate source of all good things.
I am not sure what experiences you had with men of faith or their "literal interpretation", but I can tell you I don't rely on myself or anyone else to interpret the Bible. In fact, my atheist parents didn't even allow me to fellowship in church for years when I first started believing. I had to read the Bible in secret for fear of my parents tearing it up or throwing it away. I learned everything I needed as a new believer through prayers and careful study. The Bible was taught to me by God Himself those isolated years.
He reportedly performed miracles. In this regard he was not unique, but sits alongside countless other purported miracle practitioners.
In science, laws are descriptions, not mandates. You are confusing the legal sense of the word with the scientific.
Taken literally, the chronology in Genesis is discordant with our scientific understanding of the universe's development.
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