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Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Fulfill meaning to accomplish with His death and a new covenant. Prophets prophesied His coming, He fulfilled it, with His death he called us all to die with Him and be reborn into the new covenant, we now possess the Holy Spirit. It's easy to recognize, it's an extreme sensitivity to sin.
My lack of knowledge of the bible? how laughable. Don't mistake non-acceptance of the way people cherry pick their doctrines as not understanding what the bible says.
By your interpretation then, by fulfilling as you claim, the OT laws are basically abolished?
Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Fulfill meaning to accomplish with His death and a new covenant. Prophets prophesied His coming, He fulfilled it, with His death he called us all to die with Him and be reborn into the new covenant, we now possess the Holy Spirit. It's easy to recognize, it's an extreme sensitivity to sin.
CCBFTD,
I think some of the problem with communication between Christians and Atheist/Ex-Christians is that some of the latter group come from churches and past experiences that were heavily couched in a strict, legalistic theology. So, when they encounter Christians who hail from a different theological environment (eg. Church of Christ vs. Disciples of Christ, or Hard-line Presbyterian vs. General Congregationalist, etc. ) they assume that you must be a Christian who is ignorant of the Bible and its principles.
By your interpretation then, by fulfilling as you claim, the OT laws are basically abolished?
I think the real issue is; so many Christians, have so many different interpretations of scripture and hence, so many denominations of Christianity.
I have always found, the most aggressive debates on this board, are from Christians debating other Christians on the interpretation of scripture.
No, the penalties are abolished and the intent if FULFILLED in, and by, Christ.
You might want to check out the book, Five Views on Law and Gospel (CounterPoint Series) to see that there is a wide spread on the understanding between scholars/theologians as to just what the relationship between the OT Law and the NT Gospel is or could be. There is no contemporary consensus.
I've seen these debates and every single one of them is based off opinion. Very rarely does anyone go to scripture to look for the answer. The answers to everything needs to end at scripture, I was just in a thread debating if water baptism was vital to salvation, so many people waving their baptism in front of those who haven't been like a hundred dollar bill.
I simply went to scripture, pulled out verses and explained them in context. Do you know what happened? The conversation ended.
Yes, Christians love to debate, they love to fight over frivolous things. It is petty and it's because modern Christianity needs a revival. Our work should be about spreading the gospel, not debating things when the answer is clearly in scripture.
I'm one of "those" Christians that uses the Word of God as my SWORD. You'd be surprised at how many Christians have never read the bible at length. I guess saying "I'm a Christian" rolls off the tongue or something. Maybe it's nice to say. Who knows.
Yes, I am well aware, that opinions are all over the board on this and many other issues.
Well, the fact we have so many varying interpretations from Christians (and even scholars who study the stuff for a living) supports the notion that it is opinion and clear objective support is lacking.
I guess that is one reason it is called; faith.
I think the real issue is; so many Christians, have so many different interpretations of scripture and hence, so many denominations of Christianity.
I have always found, the most aggressive debates on this board, are from Christians debating other Christians on the interpretation of scripture.
Can you give me some names of scholars who believe the Old Testament is standing law? Some believe to keep the Sabbath and some of the festivals, but that's fine.
Romans 14:5-6: "One person esteems one day above another, another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord . . .
We do not call people wrong for celebrating the Sabbath. If they feel it in their heart to do so, then praise God and let them do it.
I would love some names though, because if one is to keep the ten commandments they are saying they keep the entirety of the mosaic laws. They don't, which means that everyone is agreed upon the new covenant. I think you maybe thinking of Jewish scholars?
Well, the fact we have so many varying interpretations from Christians (and even scholars who study the stuff for a living) supports the notion that it is opinion and clear objective support is lacking.
I guess that is one reason it is called; faith.
Well, the fact we have so many varying interpretations from Christians (and even scholars who study the stuff for a living) supports the notion that it is opinion and clear objective support is lacking.
I guess that is one reason it is called; faith.
Bhsmte,
It is simply that there is a spread on viewpoints in dealing with theology, similar to other fields of inquiry. (Let's not pretend to assume that science isn't plagued by varying views that are subjected likewise to discussion and debate...)
...It's also not as if Christians disagree on everything. Some Christians disagree simply because they haven't read the Bible and don't know its contents and feel they have the freedom to reach their own 'democratically' inferred conclusions. I have lots of family members just like that.
Another reason is that sometimes Christians get caught in a cult like environment, in a church that does not permit questioning or exploring.l
Yet another reason is that some Christians have certain agendas and want to 'fit' the bible into that agenda--in fact, I had one Christian tell me the Bible was just a 'guide'--meaning that he thought the Spirit allowed him to make his own truth and decide his own life plan via "God's direct voice."
And sometimes, some Christian individuals are simply individuals who wake up in the morning, battling depression and mental illness, decide to go to church and try to assimilate something of the faith...but not very well.
We can go on with the 'why' of Christians differences.
The claimed total opposition to Torah [Old Testament teachings] which theologians, especially in the Protestant churches, frequently made the basis for their theological contrast between Christianity and Judaism (freedom/grace vs. Law) now appears to rest on something less than solid ground" (p. 32). Also: "It is now becoming increasingly apparent to biblical scholars that the lack of a deep immersion into the spirit and content of the Hebrew Scriptures leaves the contemporary Christian with a truncated version of Jesus' message. In effect, what remains is an emasculated version of biblical spirituality"
Calvin believed Christians should keep the Ten Commandments, even though he bowed to tradition by substituting the first day of the week for the seventh day in the Fourth Commandment. Calvin's view, though popular in past centuries, steadily lost ground during the 20th century.
Sure science has debate, especially when objective evidence is lacking. On my fronts, objective evidence is abundant and there is little debate on certain topics. As additional objective evidence accumulates, views adapt to the new evidence and that is why science may get things wrong in the short term, but is self correcting over time.
Theology, is a different animal in regards to the type of evidence available to determine which theology one will choose, which is why most call it faith. And, let me add, there is nothing wrong with that, because it is the nature of theological beliefs.
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