Why does God allow us to suffer?

[Locutus]

You act like death is something bad. We will all die, and that's a fact. If God promises eternity to us, what is this short life but a second in time anyway? They were born and that's a good thing. God created them and without God they would not exist. Perhaps they are the lucky ones, after all you keep saying what a terrible place this world is and how cruel life is. How do you know that they are not the lucky ones? Their suffering is over and now they have eternal life and rest from there troubles. We however will still endure our struggles for a little longer, and we will still die, just like them.

Unfortunately the behaviour of believers at 'death time' puts the lie to the idea that death is okay, or 'lucky'. I've seen it time and time again.

Just for the record, we don't think the world is a terrible place - most atheists have great hope for humanity and for the planet. We keep mentioning these forms of suffering because they're important to a debate on a god who allows it.

 

[Locutus]

Least religious countries
Percentage of respondents in each country claiming to be either not religious or atheist.

CZECH REPUBLIC
90%
CHINA
76%
SWEDEN
75%

I see no wonderful standard of living trends here.

This is completely and utterly wrong when it comes to China. The Chinese are one of the most superstitious cultures on earth - and have never been atheists - despite any official position on the matter. When they report 'non belief' they are report no adherence to certain identified faiths (and who knows how many options were presented to participants .. maybe only a few). That's because so many of them are effectively animists - engaging in ancestor worship and similar. And those who aren't animists or Buddhists, are Christian. In fact, China currently has the fastest growing Christian population in the world.

 

[Extraneous]

Unfortunately the behaviour of believers at 'death time' puts the lie to the idea that death is okay, or 'lucky'. I've seen it time and time again.

Just for the record, we don't think the world is a terrible place - most atheists have great hope for humanity and for the planet. We keep mentioning these forms of suffering because they're important to a debate on a god who allows it.

Growing pains maybe? Look at it from Gods perspective. To a child everything seems like the end of the world. Hardship seems like it lasts forever and everything is the end of the world. Our parents look at us and roll their eyes because they know that its such small thing. However when we grow up we look back and wonder why we were so weak and impatient, we see that it was not as bad as it first seemed.

God sees us as children. Thats why hes called the father and we are called children. Maybe we cant yet see the big picture because we are but mere infants. Its always been my belief that God created relationships such as parent/child, and even man/wife relationships, in order to show us a hidden truth that our childish eyes cannot see yet. When our children are rebellious its hurts us, and thats how we hurt God too. When our spouse cheats on us, we are hurt, and thats how we hurt God too. Scripture is full of these relationship analogies and i don't think its an accident, I think there is a mystery behind it all. We are but children learning, and just cant see things as an adult would.

 

[Extraneous]

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body

 

[Locutus]

Growing pains maybe? Look at it from Gods perspective. To a child everything seems like the end of the world. Hardship seems like it lasts forever and everything is the end of the world. Our parents look at us and roll their eyes because they know that its such small thing. However when we grow up we look back and wonder why we were so weak and impatient, we see that it was not as bad as it first seemed.

God sees us as children. Thats why hes called the father and we are called children. Maybe we cant yet see the big picture because we are but mere infants. Its always been my belief that God created relationships such as parent/child, and even man/wife relationships, in order to show us a hidden truth that our childish eyes cannot see yet. When our children are rebellious its hurts us, and thats how we hurt God too. When our spouse cheats on us, we are hurt, and thats how we hurt God too. Scripture is full of these relationship analogies and i don't think its an accident, I think there is a mystery behind it all. We are but children learning, and just cant see things as an adult would.

I'll grant you human infancy, we're still fairly clueless. But we ARE learning, and that's the important thing. Consider what we've learned in just the past 200 years. It's considerably more than what we'd learned in all previous millennia on earth.

One thing we've not learned at the same pace, is to rise above our base, grasping nature. There are countries now trying to live an evolved version of human society, but they're too few. Still, it IS happening. We ARE learning to be better humans ... and we must focus on that. Let's keep dismantling the war machines, the spastic consumption, galloping capitalism, famine, environmental destruction, etc etc.

As for death 'seeming like the end of the world', well I'd have assumed Christians would be exempt from that experience - or at least less affected by it than non-believers. My experience is the polar opposite. It concerns me that the faith offers no comfort when it's most needed.

 

[Extraneous]

I'll grant you human infancy, we're still fairly clueless. But we ARE learning, and that's the important thing. Consider what we've learned in just the past 200 years. It's considerably more than what we'd learned in all previous millennia on earth.

One thing we've not learned at the same pace, is to rise above our base, grasping nature. There are countries now trying to live an evolved version of human society, but they're too few. Still, it IS happening. We ARE learning to be better humans ... and we must focus on that. Let's keep dismantling the war machines, the spastic consumption, galloping capitalism, famine, environmental destruction, etc etc.

As for death 'seeming like the end of the world', well I'd have assumed Christians would be exempt from that experience - or at least less affected by it than non-believers. My experience is the polar opposite. It concerns me that the faith offers no comfort when it's most needed.

Faith is about eternal life. I can see no greater comfort than that. I dont know about you guys but the worst thing i can imagine is the end of my existence.

 

[Locutus]

Faith is about eternal life. I can see no greater comfort than that. I dont know about you guys but the worst thing i can imagine is the end of my existence.

You may not see a greater comfort than that now, but I know from long experience that such comfort is non-existent when some believers or their loved one are about to meet their maker. It seems it's often only they confront the reality that it is, in fact, all ending. The worst possible time for 'god to desert them'.

The end of my own existence isn't music to my ears, either. But I dilute any potential shadows that may have over my today by living as much as I can, loving as much as a I can, and by treating every day as a gift. I will arrive at my end knowing I loved well and lived well. It won't make leaving fun, but I won't have the burden of a wasted life. I've been at the bedside of the 'I lived well' dying, and it's been a very different experience than that mentioned in my first para.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is completely and utterly wrong when it comes to China. The Chinese are one of the most superstitious cultures on earth - and have never been atheists - despite any official position on the matter. When they report 'non belief' they are report no adherence to certain identified faiths (and who knows how many options were presented to participants .. maybe only a few). That's because so many of them are effectively animists - engaging in ancestor worship and similar. And those who aren't animists or Buddhists, are Christian. In fact, China currently has the fastest growing Christian population in the world.

"There are lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain quotes


"Religious" is considered by most to be formal, organized, and practiced.
Your comments are supported by other observers.

 

[SkyWriting]

Faith is about eternal life. I can see no greater comfort than that. I dont know about you guys but the worst thing i can imagine is the end of my existence.

A loved one perhaps?

 

[Locutus]

"Religious" is considered by most to be formal, organized, and practiced.
.

atheist is considered by most to be without belief in the supernatural. ie, superstitious and/or religious.

China has virtually no atheists. Never has had any, apart from a few claiming it in order to make themselves gods. In other words, even they weren't atheists - since they deified themselves, and demanded deification from others.

 

[SteveB28]

You follow words in a book and you think they are infallible, but they are not. They are instead riddled with propaganda. The difference between my book and yours is that im not trying to force you to live by my book. You however are trying to force yours.

My point was that everything you believe religiously is a result of what you have been told by some other humans.

 

[SteveB28]

Instead of taking pot shots at people why don't you bring something to the table so we can examine what you have to contribute to the conversation.

I'M the one taking pot shots? He claimed I "believe everything I'm told" Can I not respond in kind?

 

[joshua 1 9]

I'M the one taking pot shots? He claimed I "believe everything I'm told" Can I not respond in kind?

I am just asking if you have anything of any value to contribute or not?

 

[joshua 1 9]

No, God does not extend lives on earth.
As a general rule of thumb, you will live longer
if you follow your parents guidelines as they are
20 years older compared to if you leave home
at 15 and never listen to them again.

If you still feel advice from your parents is a gift
from God to extend your life, then ok, it is.

The Bible is pretty clear that if we follow the law and keep the commandments that will add years to our life. Just like the doctors tell us that if you want to add years to your life you have to eat right, exercise and take good care of yourself. If you do not care to add years to your life then you can eat, drink and party and you can take years off or your life.
3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
3:2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Stop looking at Islam in the flesh, then. Start considering how good Allah is instead.

What point are you trying to make? Abraham had two sons. One with his wife Sarah, the other was with Hagar the Egyptian who was his wife's maid. The Hebrews are the children of promise with Sarah. Islam represents the descendants of Ishmael Hagars son. As Christians we receive the inheritance of Isaac the son of Sarah. In us the promises of God are yes and amen.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So my friend who was cut down by a drunk driver, in his mid twenties, two months after his marriage, must have been a bad Christian?
Easy enough to try and call after the event.

No, I've seen too many instances where this "live long and prosper" simply hasn't happened. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It doesn't ring true.

It is true for me and my life. Many times I should have died starting when I was 12 years old. God has watched over me and prolonged my life. I think it is because I have read the Bible and there does not seem to be very many people that want to represent the truth that we find in the Bible. But I will be glad when my work here is finished and I can go onto my reward. I am sure if you prayed then God would explain to you why He allowed your friend to be taken before his time. I believe the Bible says we are all given 70-80 years and people can even add onto that. The enemy is out to destroy people before their time. God wants to shelter and protect us but we have free will. We have to be willing. This is all about free will and making a choice to live for God or to live in rebellion.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."

 

[SkyWriting]

atheist is considered by most to be without belief in the supernatural. ie, superstitious and/or religious.

China has virtually no atheists. Never has had any, apart from a few claiming it in order to make themselves gods. In other words, even they weren't atheists - since they deified themselves, and demanded deification from others.

Buddhism - closest thing to a religion in China.

Confucianism - Not a religion.

Taoism - Philosophically profound but too wishy washy to build a structured religion around.

Communism - Is anti-religion by nature.

Money - The only thing Chinese people have found reliable after a century of bloodshed, famine, and chaos.

Family Family Family - This is the true God which the Chinese worship. Not a divine God but nevertheless a spiritually potent entity that they must answer to.

Side Note: This makes China, I assert, the world's only truly Godless country.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-so-many-Chinese-people-atheists

 

[SkyWriting]

It is true for me and my life. Many times I should have died starting when I was 12 years old. God has watched over me and prolonged my life.

God does not interfere with the material world
except through the influence of the Spirit on
man. Though this can indirectly prolong life.

 

[SkyWriting]

My point was that everything you believe religiously is a result of what you have been told by some other humans.

And research shows that metaphysical ideas are inherent and not taught .

 

[SkyWriting]

The Chinese are one of the most superstitious cultures on earth - and have never been atheists - despite any official position on the matter.

That's not belief in a god.