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I catch you fibbing, so you come back with the flamethrower, lol. I must be on to something to have you so worked up so quickly, eh Zippy? I'm lazy because I don't put as much detail into my posts as you want me to? lol, tough noogies.
If you think some conclusion is implicit in something I've said, it's fair to state "If that's true then...". But if you come back and tell me I claimed the thing you think is implicit that's called "a lie". If you need to lie to make your argument, your argument is bad.
If they have free will, then yeah. Are you claiming people freely choose things they don't want or what?
I've conflated nothing.
A If you have the ability to do X, then you can do X. If you cannot do X, then you do not freely choose to not do X.
B If have the ability to do X, but you do not have any desire whatsoever to do X, then you won't choose to do X.
Do you disagree with B? Do you think folks freely choose to do things they have zero desire at all to do? And if so, doing things you don't want to do is what free will looks like to you? Why are you choosing to do things if it isn't because you want to do those things?
Sex will necessarily happen sometimes, somewheres because people desire sex so much.
Does that mean that anytime someone chooses to have sex it was against their will?
If there was zero desire to have sex in every human, why would anyone choose to have sex ever?
"Changing face"? When did I ever say something different? You're fibbing again, Zippy.So now you are changing face
"Changing face"? When did I ever say something different? You're fibbing again, Zippy.
I read your posts. You wanted to play make believe. Seeya.I yield to the king of the kiddie pool, who cannot be bothered to read posts or think beyond that two-foot depth.
But that just kicks the can further down the road. Why did God build reality in such a way as to need suffering?
Being able to do anything, he could have made a perfect reality with or without suffering. But he chose to add in suffering. Not because he needed to: but because he chose to.
When anyone rejects another person by not loving them, it sows seeds for future rejections of others and/or retributions. School shooters are only an extreme example.I for one have never done an actually evil thing and I have free will.
Suffering has several benefits past physical like learning not to eat harmful foods or learning not to offend and lose friends and invaluable relationships.Hello,
There are so many ways to answer that God does everything He can to avoid or abate suffering, that it can seem like no one has a definitive answer. However, we can start to understand that God is in the midst of suffering. For example, that God is able to distract us from suffering. The point is not that God distracts all suffering, where-ever it occurs. But that God shares the burden of suffering, with those that have faith in Him.
This bearing our burdens, as Christ did (watching the Father), is something you can fight or go with. There is wisdom in this, as suffering teaches us to develop character. If we didn't ever suffer, there would be no difference between Heaven and Hell. What we know, is that we can be distracted in degrees. Less suffering, is partly a choice. Partly a commitment, but partly a choice. If we have the opportunity to learn this, our suffering will always be less. This is the promise of God.
What we need to learn, in the process of (mentally) processing this, is that the burden we place on God, directly affects our ability to deal with the suffering that is inevitable. Even if we stayed our entire lives in Heaven, simply leaving Heaven, would be Hell. God's promise is not that we will stay for ever in Heaven, but that we will be able to endure what we suffer because of Hell, whether by someone else's actions or our own. And this is the kicker, we can even avoid suffering while we are suffering.
Avoiding suffering while we are suffering, allows us to be distracted from our suffering, especially suffering we can do nothing about. This is the principle:It is in effect, being forgiving of what God can do in this life, for the sake of the next. If God suffers, surely suffering has come to an end - for those that have faith in God's suffering. It might be hard to have faith that suffering will come to an end - that is the price of innocence, in one sense - but if we have simpler standards, as to what we will expect from God - in the face of that suffering - we will be going a great long way to ending the suffering that is needless (that is, if you can understand it: an ignorance of God).
God will be there with you in the suffering, but don't wait for your expectations of God, to define your response to His love - whether you are suffering a little or a lot, humility (that God continues to have a plan, for your life) will go a long way to preventing you from adding to that suffering needlessly: that is, asking for a more perfect solution to your suffering than He is able, all His efforts not withstanding, to give you. God wants to give you an end to suffering, but that doesn't mean He can immediately get it to you - be humble about what He can give you, and you will suffer less.
I hope we can understand this, in a bond of fellowship.
I am not trying to diminish anyone's suffering (that is up to God, ultimately).
God bless.
I've managed to accomplish all of those things without suffering. I suspect everyone else can do so as well.Suffering also helps us gain in compassion for others and depth of love. And helps free us from preoccupation-distractions and things that don't matter so much and remember what matters most to us. It helps us find ourselves.
you'll see...if you're willing, in timeI've managed to accomplish all of those things without suffering. I suspect everyone else can do so as well.
What do you suspect I will eventually see? That I will all of a sudden begin to suffer when doing things I have been doing my entire life that did not require suffering before? I wouldn't hold my breath on that one if I were you.you'll see...if you're willing, in time
Unless that suffering is being caused by others. In which case it's more likely to lead to bitterness, anger, and hate. Humans are very good at finding someone to blame for their suffering, and thus finding someone to hate.Suffering also helps us gain in compassion for others and depth of love.
Yes if the one suffering is oppressed then there will be resentment, but what of those that love and help the sufferer in times of need. Will those be met with resentment for their loving spirit? Will the sufferer understand the power love?Unless that suffering is being caused by others. In which case it's more likely to lead to bitterness, anger, and hate. Humans are very good at finding someone to blame for their suffering, and thus finding someone to hate.
Why do you assume that suffering will lead to one (love) more than the other (hate)?
If you age 10 years, you ought to learn entirely new things you didn't know before, including profound things that are new for you -- -- including such key topics as how best to love, what is beneficial suffering, how to find and integrate lost parts (abilities) of yourself, and so much more.What do you suspect I will eventually see? That I will all of a sudden begin to suffer when doing things I have been doing my entire life that did not require suffering before? I wouldn't hold my breath on that one if I were you.
There are many kinds of suffering, and what I wrote above was a very brief description of some gains a person can gain from some kinds. For instance the temporary physical suffering of illness I've found beneficial to my attitudes over time in life.Unless that suffering is being caused by others. In which case it's more likely to lead to bitterness, anger, and hate. Humans are very good at finding someone to blame for their suffering, and thus finding someone to hate.
Why do you assume that suffering will lead to one (love) more than the other (hate)?
I appreciate you experience, but I respectfully disagree. Though I am in a constant state of learning, I have never found a benefit when it comes to suffering, and doubt I ever will. Perhaps you and I have different ideas of what it means to suffer.If you age 10 years, you ought to learn entirely new things you didn't know before, including profound things that are new for you -- -- including such key topics as how best to love, what is beneficial suffering, how to find and integrate lost parts (abilities) of yourself, and so much more.
I've had that in every decade of my life so far, 6 decades.
It's a matter of choice though. To learn new things, you have to believe you can find new things, that there is more to learn that is profound. If a person thinks they already have all key knowledge, they have defeated themselves.
Well, there are the simple examples: without pain receptors, a person is in very real and sharp danger, not being able to feel when they are damaging themselves, such as putting a hand on a hot stove top. Without the pain to warn the person, they could get a much much more severe wound/damage to their hand before they realize something bad is happening.I appreciate you experience, but I respectfully disagree. Though I am in a constant state of learning, I have never found a benefit when it comes to suffering, and doubt I ever will. Perhaps you and I have different ideas of what it means to suffer.
It is like God is teasing us because we experience some kind of suffering, people or God say that it is for his greater good and he has made up for it somehow, then that leads to suffering too, and the cycle goes on and on at least until death.I appreciate you experience, but I respectfully disagree. Though I am in a constant state of learning, I have never found a benefit when it comes to suffering, and doubt I ever will. Perhaps you and I have different ideas of what it means to suffer.
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