Why does everyone hate Mary so much?

[Metal Minister]

The Gnostic "Gospels" in general have overlap/s with the NT Gospels; that does not mean everything in the NT Gospels is false.

Likewise, the Gnostic Gospels can utilize what is common knowledge or doctrine without rendering those things false in themselves.

So the fact there is no evidence of the Marian doctrines prior to the gnostic writings being penned isn't a clue?

 

[Thekla]

So the fact there is no evidence of the Marian doctrines prior to the gnostic writings being penned isn't a clue?

Central fallacy of your position: earliest extent text = origin of concepts in the text.

Cultural fallacy of your position: all that is believed and is important is recorded in a text.

(Secondary fallacy: all texts recording important matters are presently extant.)

 

[Metal Minister]

Central fallacy of your position: earliest extent text = origin of concepts in the text.

Cultural fallacy of your position: all that is believed and is important is recorded in a text.

(Secondary fallacy: all texts recording important matters are presently extant.)

List of fallacies invoked to ignore the truth:begging the question; assuming the consequent; appeal to common practice; appeal to tradition; and an attempt to shift the burden of proof (forcing the other side to attempt to prove a universal negative; there is no evidence of a belief prior to the gnostic writings, yet you're asserting they existed, and are claiming I must prove you incorrect.)

 

[Thekla]

List of fallacies invoked to ignore the truth:begging the question; assuming the consequent; appeal to common practice; appeal to tradition; and an attempt to shift the burden of proof (forcing the other side to attempt to prove a universal negative; there is no evidence of a belief prior to the gnostic writings, yet you're asserting they existed, and are claiming I must prove you incorrect.)

Methinks you've run afield the matter:

no historian, researcher, anthropologist, etc. makes the error of asserting that a recorded concept is concurrent with the origin of the concept. Nor makes the error of thinking all concepts are preserved in known extant texts, or that they are aware of all extant texts.

No Christian I've known or read dismisses parts of the Gospel as false because of overlap with Gnostic writings.

Appeal to "tradition" is not a fallacy per se; in fact, oral traditions are increasingly recognized to be valid. Ie, despite the fact that westerners treated as silly the Australian aboriginal oral history of desertification of the Australian outback, contemporary research has verified the Aboriginal accounts.

So no, I'm not skipping your claim, I'm addressing central problems with your claim.

 

[Albion]

This entire post is a strawman. No one "hates Mary" because we disagree with the idea that she is "our mother".

...and that's the bottom line to all of this. The OP was somewhat confusing, but I can't say it was insincere. However, it became red meat for some other folks to misrepresent Christians they disapprove of. Since no one has shown us anyone who actually does hate Mary--and cannot do so--there's no reason to continue to argue over collateral matters, is there?

 

[Grafted In]

Jesus taught us not to pray to intercessors, but to pray directly to your true Father which is in Heaven. That said, those who pray to intercessors have a great advantage over those who don't pray at all.

How so? There is but one mediator between God and man...Jesus




.

 

[Grafted In]

Mary was not diety. Otherwise how could Jesus have been both all human and all God. The thinking that Mary is deity would imply that her parents were deity as well. She was all human with no other qualifications than that she and Joseph were devout, observant Jews.
One could easily conclude that you statement amounts to "leading with the chin".

 

[Standing Up]

The Gnostic "Gospels" in general have overlap/s with the NT Gospels; that does not mean everything in the NT Gospels is false.

Likewise, the Gnostic Gospels can utilize what is common knowledge or doctrine without rendering those things false in themselves.

Does EO prefer non-canon portrayals over the canon account?

 

[Thekla]

Does EO prefer non-canon portrayals over the canon account?

The question makes no sense to me .... could you clarify ?

 

[Rhamiel]

Mary was not diety. Otherwise how could Jesus have been both all human and all God. The thinking that Mary is deity would imply that her parents were deity as well. She was all human with no other qualifications than that she and Joseph were devout, observant Jews.
One could easily conclude that you statement amounts to "leading with the chin".

well people have claimed that "no one hates Mary so this thread has no bearing"

well no one has said Mary is a deity, so what is your point?

Mary is not a deity, she is also not a pink aardvark

 

[bbbbbbb]

well people have claimed that "no one hates Mary so this thread has no bearing"

well no one has said Mary is a deity, so what is your point?

Mary is not a deity, she is also not a pink aardvark

We could go on forever as to who or what Mary is not. One thing we all agree upon is that Mary was the wife of Joseph and the mother of Jesus Christ.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

well people have claimed that "no one hates Mary so this thread has no bearing"

Then prove that everyone DOES hate Mary. That's the issue of this thread: Do all people hate her? Or is the accusation of this thread false, wrong, a lie?






.

 

[Rick Otto]

It was rhetoric.
I may have called it hyperbole.
I alleged some people try to deify her.

I like her.
I'm not too fond of how people put distance between her and us by putting her on a religious pedestals.
Same thing with her son.

 

[barryatlake]

Why is it that non-Catholics on this forum disregard Holy Scripture and refuse to address Christ's mother as " Blessed Mary "?

 

[His777]

Why is it that non-Catholics on this forum disregard Holy Scripture and refuse to address Christ's mother as " Blessed Mary "?

No one saying she's not blessed. We use the name Mary and we use the name Jesus just like in the scriptures.

 

[Albion]

It looks like this is at the heart of the thread. It certainly was the presumption that launched the OP. So, can anyone substantiate it? If not, why should we be going off onto side issues?

Then prove that everyone DOES hate Mary. That's the issue of this thread: Do all people hate her? Or is the accusation of this thread false, wrong, a lie?

.

 

[barryatlake]

If you don't hate Mary, which I know you do not, but then why not call Mary as ''blessed" just as the Holy Bible states ? Do you think because it would sound as if you would be agreeing with Catholicism ?

 

[Albion]

If you don't hate Mary, which I know you do not, but then why not call Mary as ''blessed" just as the Holy Bible states ? Do you think because it would sound as if you would be agreeing with Catholicism ?

No. I DO agree with Catholicism on most things (the Divinity of Christ, infant baptism, liturgical worship, etc.)

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

It looks like this is at the heart of the thread. It certainly was the presumption that launched the OP. So, can anyone substantiate it? If not, why should we be going off onto side issues?

I've been at CF for 10 years.... and ONE of the things that has always frustrated me about this unique site is the "double standard" that is not only perpetuated but defended: Catholics post about how we all HATE Mary - and that's just wonderful, defended, kind, just, right, fair - to say people HATE her.... no need to defend it as true, because Catholics "FEEL" that and so it's good to say it, no matter how offensive, hurtful, flaming that may be. But if some Protestant were to post that all Catholics HATE Mary or Jesus or..... my, my, my. This "Catholics exempt" policy has been in place for years, this double standard is well entrenched.

I LOVE Mary with all my heart. MANY, MANY Protestants do. Insisting that we all specifically all HATE her is not only an outright lie (which no Catholic seems to care about - at least to state) but is intensely hurtful (which no Catholic seems to care about - at least to state). Catholics too often SCREAM about their hurt feelings, about "hurtful" and offensive things said to them..... but it seems to be all one-way. "Do unto me the opposite of what I do to others" appears to be the rubric. And has been for most of the past 10 years here at CF. And Staff has defended that.

Oh, well.....



Sorry....


- Josiah





.

 

[barryatlake]

Josiah, please note in my post #117, I wrote: I know you "do not" [ hate the Blessed Mother Mary ]