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Why do you go to a church building to worship?

FireDragon76

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See, this is why I don’t understand why this gender identity is such a huge dividing issue in the west, why people identify themselves by their race, gender, “orientation” or even body shape instead of family, job title, hometown, education background, accomplishments, hobbies and other common aspects of life like those.

You do know there are trans people in Asia, too, right? Thailand has a large number, for instance. It's not controversial in Thailand because the people there are Buddhist and don't have the same kind of negative attitude towards gay or trans people, that you find in Europe or the US, historically.

There is controversy over identity politics, I suppose, because modern western people, influenced by a legacy of Christian teachings, value individuals and their desires. We don't believe it's right for institutions to arbitrarily tell people how to live merely to make some other people happy, or to tell other people they aren't entitled to the same treatment as what other people receive, simply because they are a different.
 
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Jonathan_Gale

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You do know there are trans people in Asia, too, right? Thailand has a large number, for instance. It's not controversial in Thailand because the people there are Buddhist and don't have the same kind of negative attitude towards gay or trans people, that you find in Europe or the US, historically.

There is controversy over identity politics, I suppose, because modern western people, influenced by a legacy of Christian teachings, value individuals and their desires. We don't believe it's right for institutions to arbitrarily tell people how to live merely to make some other people happy, or to tell other people they aren't entitled to the same treatment as what other people receive, simply because they are a different.
Yes, I know, I've seen some of them with my own eyes. What you may not realize is that there's no identity politics or social agendas involved in their situations. Prostitution is a huge business in their local tourism industry, and those whom you call "trans" are mostly from poor families, they have no other means to make a living, the most convenient way is to castrate their sons and turn them into prostitutes. Their "trans" are universally prostitutes at the bottom rung of the social ladder, it's more of a job, not an identity, they're not social activists or media influencers forcing acceptance and pumping estrogens into little kids. These people rely on hormone treatments for the rest of their lives - which are greatly shortened, and they're infertile. The locals all know this, that's why they pity their misery without a negative attitude.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Yes, in spirit and in truth at anywhere, offer yourself as a living sacrifice.
I agree. That is what Jesus said. However, I asked Prodomos the question and look forward to his answer.

John 4:1 Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus Himself was not baptizing, but His disciples were), 3 He left Judea and went away again into Galilee. 4 And He had to pass through Samaria. 5 So He *came to a city of Samaria called Sychar, near the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph; 6 and Jacob’s well was there. So Jesus, being wearied from His journey, was sitting thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

7 There *came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus *said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8 For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. 9 Therefore the Samaritan woman *said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) 10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11 She *said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep; where then do You get that living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself and his sons and his cattle?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

15 The woman *said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, so I will not be thirsty nor come all the way here to draw.” 16 He *said to her, “Go, call your husband and come here.” 17 The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.” Jesus *said to her, “You have correctly said, ‘I have no husband’; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly.” 19 The woman *said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.” 21 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman *said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus *said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
 
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bbbbbbb

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You do know there are trans people in Asia, too, right? Thailand has a large number, for instance. It's not controversial in Thailand because the people there are Buddhist and don't have the same kind of negative attitude towards gay or trans people, that you find in Europe or the US, historically.

There is controversy over identity politics, I suppose, because modern western people, influenced by a legacy of Christian teachings, value individuals and their desires. We don't believe it's right for institutions to arbitrarily tell people how to live merely to make some other people happy, or to tell other people they aren't entitled to the same treatment as what other people receive, simply because they are a different.
Actually, Christians have a very lengthy history of disdaining (a kind word) sexually divergent individuals, primarily because the Bible is quite explicit, whether it is one of the ten commandments prohibiting adultery, or other commandments prohibiting incest, or bestiality, or homosexuality. You won't find these sorts of things in Hinduism and its variants, including Buddhism. You will, and do find it, in Judaism as well as Islam.

I see that the robo bot adjusted my post to be politically correct, even though I used the word as it actually appears in the Bible.

Here is a classic example -

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye of dubious parentage, and not sons.
 
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FireDragon76

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Yes, I know, I've seen some of them with my own eyes. What you may not realize is that there's no identity politics or social agendas involved in their situations. Prostitution is a huge business in their local tourism industry, and those whom you call "trans" are mostly from poor families, they have no other means to make a living, the most convenient way is to castrate their sons and turn them into prostitutes. Their "trans" are universally prostitutes at the bottom rung of the social ladder, it's more of a job, not an identity, they're not social activists or media influencers forcing acceptance and pumping estrogens into little kids. These people rely on hormone treatments for the rest of their lives - which are greatly shortened, and they're infertile. The locals all know this, that's why they pity their misery without a negative attitude.

I don't think that's is completely accurate. Prostitution doesn't cause trans people to be trans, it's more like the other way around. Kathoeys (the colloquial Thai term, it literally means "lady boy") have the identity as the opposite sex from a young age. While Thai society tolerates trans people, there are few opportunities for a transperson in Thailand, because tolerance doesn't extent to acceptance or legal recognition, even though eunuchs and trans people are ancient in most parts of the world, including Asia. Therefore, alot of trans people take up prostitution in Thailand.

Something similar happens in Latin America with trans people there- many trans people would prefer to not be prostitutes in Latin America, but they find it difficult to get other jobs when they face alot of prejudice and discrimination.

In the US, trans people are not even necesasrily tolerated, and conservative attitudes are often hostile, unmixed with any sense of compassion (unlike Thailand). Up until recently (2020) it was largely legal to discriminate against trans people in housing and employment, and violent opposition to trans people existing isn't unheard of even today, with about one or two dozen trans people killed every year.
 
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revybub

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You won't find my answer necessarily deep. I will keep it pretty simple as I am in life. While the church isn't a building. It is the people coming together. Which is very important for us as Christians to do. We aren't to be socially alone. There is much to be gained in fellowship with one another. And building eachother up. Having accountability. I mean. If Jesus along felt the need to have people around him. Aka his deciples for one. I think it is certianly important for us to be in fellowship with one another. And worshiping together our Devine Creator. Now that isn't to say we shouldn't ever have alone 1 on 1 time with the Lord either. That is important as well.
 
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FireDragon76

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Actually, Christians have a very lengthy history of disdaining (a kind word) sexually divergent individuals, primarily because the Bible is quite explicit, whether it is one of the ten commandments prohibiting adultery, or other commandments prohibiting incest, or inappropriate behavior with animals, or homosexuality. You won't find these sorts of things in Hinduism and its variants, including Buddhism. You will, and do find it, in Judaism as well as Islam.

Viewing homosexuality as unnatural and wrong is also part of the Sikh religions as well, something I didn't know about until recently. Zoroastrianism, being one of the oldest world religions still practiced, also has negative attitudes, but while the prohibitions on homosexuality only appear in some of the later texts, they are still considered authoritative by many.
 
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prodromos

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Jonathan_Gale

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I don't think that's is completely accurate. Prostitution doesn't cause trans people to be trans, it's more like the other way around. Kathoeys (the colloquial Thai term, it literally means "lady boy") have the identity as the opposite sex from a young age. While Thai society tolerates trans people, there are few opportunities for a transperson in Thailand, because tolerance doesn't extent to acceptance or legal recognition, even though eunuchs and trans people are ancient in most parts of the world, including Asia. Therefore, alot of trans people take up prostitution in Thailand.

Something similar happens in Latin America with trans people there- many trans people would prefer to not be prostitutes in Latin America, but they find it difficult to get other jobs when they face alot of prejudice and discrimination.

In the US, trans people are not even necesasrily tolerated, and conservative attitudes are often hostile, unmixed with any sense of compassion (unlike Thailand). Up until recently (2020) it was largely legal to discriminate against trans people in housing and employment, and violent opposition to trans people existing isn't unheard of even today, with about one or two dozen trans people killed every year.
Yes, eunuch is nothing new, it simply and specifically refers to castrated men, some of them were officials in royal court, such as the one from Ethiopian who was reading Is. 53 and baptized by Phillip. To a great extent, it also includes celibate men who stay single either voluntarily or involuntarily, and Jesus himself expressed tolerance and grace to them in his teaching of marriage:

All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it. (Matt. 19:11-12)

But again, in ancient times it was not an identity. There's no such an identity as "trans", those are NORMAL kids of either male or female being coerced or tricked into hormone treatment and surgery for a social experiment, you are being brainwashed into believing it as a natural identity when in fact none of it is natural. It is inhumane, a great evil that destroys the next generation.
 
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Jonathan_Gale

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Viewing homosexuality as unnatural and wrong is also part of the Sikh religions as well, something I didn't know about until recently. Zoroastrianism, being one of the oldest world religions still practiced, also has negative attitudes, but while the prohibitions on homosexuality only appear in some of the later texts, they are still considered authoritative by many.
It's viewed as unnatural and wrong because Apostle Paul said so, period (Rom. 1:26-27).
 
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trophy33

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Worship involves offering sacrifice, which is only done at the altar. If you wish to know more I suggest you start a thread in Traditional Theology.
Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

J 4:21-24

Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.
Lk 24:52

A physical altar is not needed. What is needed is Spirit and truth.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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We are told to follow Jesus. . .1 John 2:6

What did Jesus do as our example. . .


Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” 22 So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth. And they said, “Is this not Joseph

We are called to worship God in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24

If there is true worship, there must be false worship. This is how Jesus defined false worship....

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”


We see this same scenario playing out in the last days, which I think we are close.

False worship:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

True worship:
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

We are called to worship in Truth and Spirit.


How did the apostles worship? Acts 13, Acts 16, Acts 17 and Acts 18 are good examples.

How will we worship in heaven?

Isaiah 66:22“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

To answer the OP- I think going to church is important- we are called to be one body, Jesus is the Head Amen!
 
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Hawkins

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One of the main of Church is to maintain a valid theology, that is, the true gospel to be preached. Interacting inside a physical church allows the theology to be synchronized between believers, such that the same theology is expected to be preached to the outsiders. Worshiping provides such an occassion of gathering.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

J 4:21-24

Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.
Lk 24:52

A physical altar is not needed. What is needed is Spirit and truth.

In the Lutheran tradition we remember those who sought to deny the word of God by claiming that since the Spirit is within we do not need anything external to ourselves. Those who, in essence, denied the mediatorship of Jesus Christ. The name for those who said these things had a name: Enthusiasts.

The English word enthusiasm has a very different meaning today, but it's from a Greek word, enthousiasmos, it is literally en (in, within) theos (God) -ism; "the god within me".

That the self has direct and unmediated connection with God, and therefore has no need for anything external to the self--such as God's Word or the Sacraments--in order to access, experience, know, and understand God. The self is the final arbiter of truth, the final arbiter of the Spirit's power and work.

While the Lutheran fathers fought tirelessly against this heresy, it was hardly a new heresy. The devil is rarely clever, he recycles his lies.

In the 2nd century there arose in the region of Phrygia a group who claimed to speak on behalf of the Holy Spirit, their leader, a man by the name of Montanus and his two female companions Prisca and Maximilla were "prophets" who saw themselves as the direct mouthpiece of the Holy Spirit. And they claimed that the old Church era had come to an end, that Christ in founding His Church and giving His word--His Gospel--to be preached was an intermediate stage leading to a greater and more enlightened era of the Holy Spirit which had been inaugurated among this Phrygian sect.

And this group, who came to be known as the Montanists, preached this "New Prophecy", as it was so-called. They were actually quite influential, so influential and seductive were what they said that they even managed to snatch away one of the foremost writers and theologians of the time, Tertullian of Carthage. Tertullian may have, eventually, sobered up and returned to the Church; but it's actually unclear. It's also unclear which of his writings he wrote while under their influence--which is why in spite of Tertullian's great mind and large body of work, all which he wrote carries an air of suspicion over it, and must be read with an extremely large grain of salt.

This is hardly the first time, nor would it be the last, where the devil would scheme to subtly encourage a denial of Christ and His word. The false doctrine of Enthusiasm is an ever-present danger that we might always be vigilant against. It does not always show up as an explicit heresy from a sect of would-be prophets. It can show up, and raise its ugly head anywhere where we begin to lose sight of God's most solemn promise: That Jesus Christ alone is the Way, Truth, and the Life. And thus we can only know God through Christ, and thus where Christ gives Himself there is God, and there the Spirit is at work.

So to worship God in Spirit and in truth is not to turn our gaze inward, as though I am the place of Divine Service; rather the Holy Spirit because He is the Spirit of Truth turns us outward to Christ, "He will testify about Me" (John 15:26).

For what is the Temple of God? It is Jesus Christ (John 2:19-21), and by the grace and power of God the Church is the very Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27), so that each of us is a spiritual stone in the structure which God builds (1 Peter 2:5). And we come together to offer the sacrifice of praise (Hebrews 13:15), but it is Christ who as Great High Priest offers the Perfect Sacrifice (Hebrews 10:10-14)--that Sacrifice which we ourselves partake of on the Altar, His own body and blood (1 Corinthians 1:16-18).

For here is the worship of God in Spirit and in truth: That we have been assembled, though many, as grains of wheat harvested and come together and turned into the one loaf, have by our union together in and with Christ, as His Sacred and Mystical Body, receive from God every good and perfect gift by which is our supersubstantial bread ("ἄρτον ... ἐπιούσιον" Luke 11:3) by which we live day-by-day abiding in Christ by the grace of God and the power of the Spirit who quickens us in Christ, to His perfect life which He has by His resurrection, that we should stand before the Father in His righteousness, by His life alone, which we have received.

He is the Vine, we are the branches.
His flesh is true food, His blood true drink.
Here is the water of life that never runs dry.

He is the Mediator. By Him alone we have access to God, and by Him alone are we children of God, and by Him alone can we stand before the Throne of Grace, confessing our sins, having healing and forgiveness of our sins, and salvation. And thus in Him and by Him alone can we bring, together, spiritual worship, the offering of praise from our lips and by our confession of His name.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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All Becomes New

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With the advent of online services and bountiful supplies of religious teaching and broadcasting the question comes to mind, "Why do I go to 'church' rather than watch 'church' on my video screen?"

Going to church in person is highly preferable. Sometimes that is not possible but the vast majority of the time it is.

And it does not need to be a proper church building. A home can just as much be a church (community) of people who come together to worship God.
 
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RileyG

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One word - fellowship. Humans are social animals, it's not good for man to be alone. On a practical level, "solo Christians" are the easiest targets for Satan to pick up, we either hang together or hang separately.
Absolutely! We NEED each other to build up the Body of Christ. :)
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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A home can just as much be a church (community) of people who come together to worship God.
In the long term, "house church" seems to fail, in most cases, and they rarely grow much, and having limited resources they rarely have missionaries, charities, and other community oriented activities. So, yes, but mainly as a kind of emergency provision.
 
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Jonathan_Gale

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In the long term, "house church" seems to fail, in most cases, and they rarely grow much, and having limited resources they rarely have missionaries, charities, and other community oriented activities. So, yes, but mainly as a kind of emergency provision.
But in near future, that would be the only alternative, unless you compromise on your values and comform to the big government. If you still teach unadulterated bible, you'll be censored for "hate speech". That's the situation when Peter confronted the high priests, and you know how Peter responded.
 
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