Why do you go to a church building to worship?

[ViaCrucis]

Then hang me on that tree, I'll be honored.

Kind of a drastic and nonsensical response to what I said.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

But in near future, that would be the only alternative, unless you compromise on your values and comform to the big government. If you still teach unadulterated bible, you'll be censored for "hate speech". That's the situation when Peter confronted the high priests, and you know how Peter responded.

Only God knows the future, and He condemns soothsaying and fortune-telling.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Only God knows the future, and He condemns soothsaying and fortune-telling.

-CryptoLutheran

That's not in the future, persecution for "hate speech" is already the norm in a lot of places, you don't need soothsaying or fortune-telling to see where this leads. Yes, God condemns soothsaying and fortune-telling, but he also condemns negligence and complacency.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Kind of a drastic and nonsensical response to what I said.

-CryptoLutheran

You said trees, I followed your lead.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You said trees, I followed your lead.

"Missing the forest for the trees" is a turn of phrase, it means to miss the point. More specifically, to miss the point by hyperfocusing on a particular detail.

I was saying that you were missing Paul's point in Romans.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

"Missing the forest for the trees" is a turn of phrase, it means to miss the point. More specifically, to miss the point by hyperfocusing on a particular detail.

I was saying that you were missing Paul's point in Romans.

-CryptoLutheran

Paul’s point is God’s wrath, which doesn’t have to be any disasters or plagues - although those are certainly in the mix. No, God’s wrath is the total depravity of man itself - a strong illusion. When a nation abandons God and worships idols, God just grants them their wish and bids them farewell. Of this decline, widespread homosexuality is a turning point, a warning sign of the end times, that’s where Sodom and Gomorrah were at. Beyond that, there’s no return, the whole nation is given up by God to a debased mind, what used to be lurking at the fringe of polite society is now running all major institutions. I never condemned anybody who are living in that lifestyle, because I always see it as a sinful lifestyle, NOT an identity, we’re all sinners in need of salvation as much as they are. So you don’t have to lecture on me, mister. When I said hang me on that tree, I was just joking, eh?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Paul’s point is God’s wrath, which doesn’t have to be any disasters or plagues - although those are certainly in the mix. No, God’s wrath is the total depravity of man itself - a strong illusion. When a nation abandons God and worships idols, God just grants them their wish and bids them farewell. Of this decline, widespread homosexuality is a turning point, a warning sign of the end times, that’s where Sodom and Gomorrah were at. Beyond that, there’s no return, the whole nation is given up by God to a debased mind, what used to be lurking at the fringe of polite society is now running all major institutions. I never condemned anybody who are living in that lifestyle, because I always see it as a sinful lifestyle, NOT an identity, we’re all sinners in need of salvation as much as they are. So you don’t have to lecture on me, mister. When I said hang me on that tree, I was just joking, eh?

Like I said, you completely missed the point Paul is saying there.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Like I said, you completely missed the point Paul is saying there.

-CryptoLutheran

All right, may God bless you with your pointy point.

 

[RickardoHolmes]

A couple of years ago, during the height of the Covid Epidemic, (the start of the first one) Midnight Eucharist was held on video, in person too but we chose not to attend and to watch it on TV instead. We printed out the program to follow along. and when it was all done, were happy that we at least got to hear the music but were highly disappointed that we did not get to go in person. It was the first one I had missed in about 30 years. I did not get the same level of enjoyment inspiration or meaning watching it on TV

The past two years, we have returned to going in person. I even help with the "greening" of the church, setting up lights, trees, flowers, the creche and enjoy contributing as well.

 

[The Liturgist]

With the advent of online services and bountiful supplies of religious teaching and broadcasting the question comes to mind, "Why do I go to 'church' rather than watch 'church' on my video screen?"

Because I want to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ together with other members who like me have been grafted onto the Body of Christ. In other words, to partake of Holy Communion while in Communion with my fellow Christians.

I myself agree with the Orthodox and Confessional Lutheran churches that spiritual communion via participation in an online service isn’t a thing, although I will say that online worship is extremely beneficial for multiple reasons, including its ability to allow prospective members of a church to see what its liturgy is like and thus find a church whose worship is closest to their preferences, and also if someone is ill and unable to attend church, or if someone wants to hear the beautiful hymns and liturgy and homiletics (preaching) associated with a specific church, it is of great benefit. Back in the 1990s, there were only two churches that did this on a large scale and I loved both of them, as they were both very traditional, those being the Crystal Cathedral under Rev. Schuller, memory eternal, and Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church under Dr. James Kennedy, memory eternal, who I particularly loved. Indeed I think among Protestants he was the foremost moral theologian, and after the death of Pope John Paul II, Dr. James Kennedy was the leading moral theologian in the Western Church overall. And when he was pastor, Coral Ridge had a superb liturgy with completely traditional music, without an electric guitar or drum kit in sight. There were other churches as well, for example, people lucky enough to get EWTN could access a mass that way, and the BBC has broadcast Choral Evensong for many decades.

However, my view is that the one positive thing to happen to liturgical Christianity as a result of Covid is the very large number of congregations which now record and livestream their services, which is of enormous benefit, because it preserves the work of their musicians in glorifying God, it allows easy access to beautiful liturgical music and beautiful sermons and beautiful liturgy, and it is a tool for evangelism and for helping people to find the right church. It also helps me, as a minister, monitor certain churches I deem heretical, and also monitor other churches which I like and benefit from edification. Also, it is a good way for me to be reminded of the contents of certain books in the Old Testament that sometimes one forgets about in the course of day to day affairs, when these pop up in the lectionary, particularly the lectionary of the Anglican Divine Office.

However, it is no substitute for actually attending church. There is no substitute for being in church, with fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, receiving the Holy Eucharist and listening to the sacred music of the Church. I prefer more traditional liturgies such as the Tridentine Rite or the Orthodox and Anglican liturgies which do not require as much active participation from the congregation as Vatican II. I also strongly prefer liturgies where incense is used. My favorite liturgies are those of the Byzantine Rite used by the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Eastern Catholic Churches, the West Syriac Rite as used by the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Armenian Rite as used by the Armenian Apostolic Church and the Armenian Catholic Church (or rather, what’s left of it following the genocide in 1915, which caused the Armenian Catholic Church to go from being the largest Eastern Catholic Church to one of the smallest), and the Alexandrian Rite as used by the Coptic Orthodox Church, and the Tridentine Rite, Dominican Rite and other Traditional Latin Masses, and their close cousins in the form of high church Anglican liturgies, particularly the traditional Anglican Divine Office of Choral Mattins, the Litany and Choral Evensong, and also the East Syriac Liturgy used by the Assyrian Church of the East, and the beautiful Evangelical Catholic worship of the Confessing Lutherans and other high church Lutheran parishes, such as the Thomaskirche and Nicholaskirche in Leipzig, the music of which JS Bach was responsible for in his role as Thomaskantor. Unfortunately i have not had the opportunity to visit an Ethiopian Orthodox church and to experience their amazing liturgy; I plan on doing so in the near future, as I love that church, I love the length of their services and I also love Ethiopian food, and I love the extreme faith and piety of the Ethiopian people.

 

[The Liturgist]

Sacred Space
View attachment 334804

I believe that’s a photo of Holy Virgin Cathedral operated by ROCOR in San Francisco, where the relics of St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco are kept, and where Fr. Seraphim Rose was impressed to convert from his decadent homosexual lifestyle to Holy Orthodoxy.

 

[prodromos]

and where Fr. Seraphim Rose was impressed to convert from his decadent homosexual lifestyle to Holy Orthodoxy

What source claims he led a decadent homosexual lifestyle prior to his conversion?

 

[The Liturgist]

What source claims he led a decadent homosexual lifestyle prior to his conversion?

I believe it was in his own biography. That was part of the miracle of Fr. Seraphim Rose, his conversion. He lived on the North Beach of San Francisco before he converted to Orthodoxy.

I myself venerate Fr. Seraphim Rose and hope that he is glorified. His work on Nihilism is brilliant, and his book Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future was prophetic.

 

[All Becomes New]

Sacred Space
View attachment 334804

No thanks.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Because I want to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ together with other members who like me have been grafted onto the Body of Christ. In other words, to partake of Holy Communion while in Communion with my fellow Christian

Amen and amen! I could not agree more. And while I don't find online services a fitting substitute for in-person attendance, they do have their place and value. I recently moved to a new city where I've been grieving moving from my former quite traditional high church. I am now in the midst of 5 Episcopal Churches, all about equal driving distance. Once is low, two are broad, and two fashion themselves to be high, and I suppose they are in their own way -- but they don't come close to my former church. So, I worship between the three of them, still undecided after nearly one year. On any Sunday, I'm likely to attend one and watch online services of some I didn't, in addition to catching mass online at my former parish in my old city. I am very grateful that COVID was the catalyst for churches' rapid adoption of online worship. It has its purpose, but none-the-less isn't the same as being there to share communion with fellow Christians.

 

[prodromos]

I believe it was in his own biography

I don't recall that from his biography

 

[prodromos]

No thanks.

I don't think you would have felt comfortable in Solomon's Temple.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No thanks.

I think it is an attractive sanctuary.

I like this too

Notre Dam of Montreal

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think it is an attractive sanctuary.

I like this too

Notre Dam of Montreal

I definitely recognized that basilica. Do you recognize this?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I definitely recognized that basilica. Do you recognize this?

View attachment 337785

No, I am an Australian resident so ....