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Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

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The Barbarian

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I KNOW what it "is" alright… Better than anyone you know...

It is a fairytale to make Atheists feel better about themselves...

Your belief seems incompatible with Darwin's attribution of life to God.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.

It is a Science Fiction Novel about "long ago and far away" where the SAME microbial ancestor (protista / amoeba / bacteria / SCO / protozoa / fill in the blanks) that SOMEHOW emerged from dead matter / inorganic chemicals,

See above. Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.
 
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The Barbarian

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We are given a pigs TOOTH as evidence for Ape / Man transitional.. Yes a PIGS TOOTH!!!

No.
First, it was a dinosaur specialist who found the tooth, oddly worn to resemble a primate tooth.

Second, a mammal specialist quickly debunked the idea.

Third, it wasn't a pig. That's significant because it tells me you never actually read the literature on it, but just cut and pasted from another creationist who got everything wrong.

If you'd take the time to actually do your research, you wouldn't be having little disasters like this.
 
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The Barbarian

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Law of Entropy/ SLOT. Must be CONTINUALLY VIOLATED

Well, let's test your belief. What process, required for evolution, violates any law of thermodynamics?

Prediction: you won't find one.
 
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The Barbarian

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Law of Biogenesis, You have to violate this AT LEAST ONCE!

As you just learned, Darwin acknowledged that God created life. You don't believe it?
 
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The Barbarian

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I AM NOT A CREATIONIST, and must confess that until recently, I treated people who questioned evolution with polite dismissal. But there has recently emerged a major trend in biology that has been suppressed in the mainstream media: evolution is in trouble. More importantly, this has absolutely nothing to do with religion but is due to the fact that the ongoing growth of biological knowledge keeps producing facts that contradict rather than confirm evolution. These two books—Michael Denton's Evolution: A Theory in Crisis
ir
and Michael J. Behe's Darwin's Black Box
ir
—describe this phenomenon.

Your guy probably should read up on the people he touts. Both Behe and Denton now describe themselves as "evolutionists."

Denton:
Contrary to the creationist position, the whole argument presented here is critically dependent on the presumption of the unbroken continuity of the organic world--that is, on the reality of organic evolution and on the presumption that all living organisms on earth are natural forms in the profoundest sense of the word, no less natural than salt crystals, atoms, waterfalls, or galaxies.
...Put simply, the more convincing is the evidence for believing that the world is prefabricated to the end of life, that the design is built into the laws of nature, the less credible becomes the special creationist worldview.

Michael Denton, Nature's Destiny

Behe contributed greatly to the disaster for creationism and ID when he testified at the Dover Trial that "intelligent design" is science in the same sense that astrology is science. He now says evolution is a fact, but God has to step in now and then to make sure it works.
 
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The Barbarian

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(Bible predicts the rise of creationists)

2 Timothy For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

2 Peter: First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Your belief seems incompatible with Darwin's attribution of life to God.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.



See above. Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.

"Your belief seems incompatible with Darwin's attribution of life to God."

Perhaps YOU should spend a little more time learning about the subject.. Everyone with knowledge on this subject (Except you apparently)
Is aware that Darwin harbored extreme bitterness and hatred toward God for the untimely deaths of his daughter.. His fairytale was fueled by Hatred.. Didnt you know that? I dont want to take credit for teaching you all this stuff that you were apparently unaware of... Oh BTW Did you write those letters to the Evolutionary Scientists and Biologists telling them you are the self appointed expert on Darwin's fairytale? Get to work!!

the only fact about evolution is that it is a myth

"Unfortunately, in the field of evolution most explanations are not good. As a matter of fact, they hardly qualify as explanations at all; they are suggestions, hunches, pipe dreams, hardly worthy of being called hypotheses."

(Dr. Norman Macbeth, Darwin Retried)
 
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The Barbarian

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Your belief seems incompatible with Darwin's attribution of life to God.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.

Perhaps YOU should spend a little more time learning about the subject.. Everyone with knowledge on this subject (Except you apparently)
Is aware that Darwin harbored extreme bitterness and hatred toward God for the untimely deaths of his daughter..

You were misled by that, too. Darwin, when he formulated his theory, was an orthodox Anglican. As you just learned, Darwin wrote that God created the first living things. I realize that was a shock, and contrary to the stories you were told, but it's a fact. Try to find a way to live with it.

Fact is, Darwin suspected that he was to blame for his daughter's death. His research suggested that marriage of cousins, although acceptable in the Church and in society, was not a good idea and might lead to health problems. In fact, Annie died from tuberculosis, but science had not yet developed the germ theory of disease, so he didn't know.

His concerns were also motivated by fear of the consequences of marriage between relatives: Emma Wedgewood, his wife, was also his first cousin.1 The possible adverse effects of consanguineous marriage, which was not uncommon in England at that time, were a matter of debate. Annie’s death, and self-fertilization experiments in plants, made him suspect that ‘marriage between near relations is likewise injurious’.
Commentary: a Darwin family concern. - PubMed - NCBI
Commentary: The background and outcomes of the first-cousin marriage controversy in Great Britain. - PubMed - NCBI

Darwin, years after his daughter's death, admitted that he was "leaning toward agnosticism." But as you acknowledged, that was long after he wrote his book, in which he acknowledged that God created the first living things.

His fairytale was fueled by Hatred..

They lied to you about that as well. As you see, in 1872, Darwin acknowledged that God created life long after Annie's death. It was a shameful slander on the part of whoever passed you that story.

Didnt you know that?

No, I hope you didn't. I think you are sincere, but misguided by false teachers.

Oh BTW Did you write those letters to the Evolutionary Scientists and Biologists telling them you are the self appointed expert on Darwin's fairytale? Get to work!!

Don't get angry. Get smart. Take some time to learn about this, and you'll be a lot harder to dismiss. Here's some advice from an honest fellow YE creationist:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution. (Technically, they could also be deluded or lying, but that seems rather uncharitable to say. Oops.)

Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason. Faith is enough. If God said it, that should settle it. Maybe that's not enough for your scoffing professor or your non-Christian friends, but it should be enough for you.

YE creationist Dr. Todd Wood
The truth about evolution

As you continue to see, you're in way over your head here, with little understanding and a lot of creationist fairy tales you've been given by people you should not have trusted.

 
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The Barbarian

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"Unfortunately, in the field of evolution most explanations are not good. As a matter of fact, they hardly qualify as explanations at all; they are suggestions, hunches, pipe dreams, hardly worthy of being called hypotheses."

(Dr. Norman Macbeth, Darwin Retried)

You were fooled by who ever fed you that quote. How do I know that you copied it from someone else, and never read the article?

You see, Macbeth is not antievolution, and acknowledges that evolution is a fact. He has assailed Neo-Darwinian theory, but not evolution itself. Would you like me to show you that?
 
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Your belief seems incompatible with Darwin's attribution of life to God.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.



You were misled by that, too. Darwin, when he formulated his theory, was an orthodox Anglican. As you just learned, Darwin wrote that God created the first living things. I realize that was a shock, and contrary to the stories you were told, but it's a fact. Try to find a way to live with it.

Fact is, Darwin suspected that he was to blame for his daughter's death. His research suggested that marriage of cousins, although acceptable in the Church and in society, was not a good idea and might lead to health problems. In fact, Annie died from tuberculosis, but science had not yet developed the germ theory of disease, so he didn't know.

His concerns were also motivated by fear of the consequences of marriage between relatives: Emma Wedgewood, his wife, was also his first cousin.1 The possible adverse effects of consanguineous marriage, which was not uncommon in England at that time, were a matter of debate. Annie’s death, and self-fertilization experiments in plants, made him suspect that ‘marriage between near relations is likewise injurious’.
Commentary: a Darwin family concern. - PubMed - NCBI
Commentary: The background and outcomes of the first-cousin marriage controversy in Great Britain. - PubMed - NCBI

Darwin, years after his daughter's death, admitted that he was "leaning toward agnosticism." But as you acknowledged, that was long after he wrote his book, in which he acknowledged that God created the first living things.



They lied to you about that as well. As you see, in 1872, Darwin acknowledged that God created life long after Annie's death. It was a shameful slander on the part of whoever passed you that story.

Didnt you know that?

No, I hope you didn't. I think you are sincere, but misguided by false teachers.



Don't get angry. Get smart. Take some time to learn about this, and you'll be a lot harder to dismiss. Here's some advice from an honest fellow YE creationist:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution. (Technically, they could also be deluded or lying, but that seems rather uncharitable to say. Oops.)

Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason. Faith is enough. If God said it, that should settle it. Maybe that's not enough for your scoffing professor or your non-Christian friends, but it should be enough for you.

YE creationist Dr. Todd Wood
The truth about evolution

As you continue to see, you're in way over your head here, with little understanding and a lot of creationist fairy tales you've been given by people you should not have trusted.

OK. I guess I will have to post the letters I sent to Todd Wood for our audience..

BTW. Did you write those letters to the scientists telling them they have it wrong because YOU are the self proclaimed Authority of how the Science Fiction Novel of Evolutionism is supposed to be written and NOT them?
Arent you ever embarrassed when you try to "correct" people when it turns out that YOU didnt know what you were talking about?

Until you write those letters, you will need to address my question. Here it is again..

So just so I can try to understand.. During the course of "500 Million Years" While Living in the same exact environment at the same exact time, while SOME comb Jellyfish were evolving into Humans, OTHER comb Jellyfish were evolving into.. comb Jellyfish.. And you believe I am being unreasonable for pointing out the silliness of such a religious belief?

"As you continue to see, you're in way over your head here, "

LOL I would be more than happy to debate the entire science department of any university you like who wants to defend the insane myth of Evolutionism against me.. Will you set it up? Count me in!! Just tell me when and where and I will be there.. Let's do this!!!

I already pointed out in past posts that I publicly exposed and humiliated Todd Wood and he went into coward mode and refused to defend his idiocy.. I will post a few of my letters to him.. The same thing will happen to you if you continue to defend the indefensible fairytale of Evolutionism against me.. I just want as many people to read these posts as possible so I can expose the Oval-Earthers to the public... At least the Atheists have the integrity to admit why they believe in Evolutionism..
 
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Your belief seems incompatible with Darwin's attribution of life to God.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.



You were misled by that, too. Darwin, when he formulated his theory, was an orthodox Anglican. As you just learned, Darwin wrote that God created the first living things. I realize that was a shock, and contrary to the stories you were told, but it's a fact. Try to find a way to live with it.

Fact is, Darwin suspected that he was to blame for his daughter's death. His research suggested that marriage of cousins, although acceptable in the Church and in society, was not a good idea and might lead to health problems. In fact, Annie died from tuberculosis, but science had not yet developed the germ theory of disease, so he didn't know.

His concerns were also motivated by fear of the consequences of marriage between relatives: Emma Wedgewood, his wife, was also his first cousin.1 The possible adverse effects of consanguineous marriage, which was not uncommon in England at that time, were a matter of debate. Annie’s death, and self-fertilization experiments in plants, made him suspect that ‘marriage between near relations is likewise injurious’.
Commentary: a Darwin family concern. - PubMed - NCBI
Commentary: The background and outcomes of the first-cousin marriage controversy in Great Britain. - PubMed - NCBI

Darwin, years after his daughter's death, admitted that he was "leaning toward agnosticism." But as you acknowledged, that was long after he wrote his book, in which he acknowledged that God created the first living things.



They lied to you about that as well. As you see, in 1872, Darwin acknowledged that God created life long after Annie's death. It was a shameful slander on the part of whoever passed you that story.

Didnt you know that?

No, I hope you didn't. I think you are sincere, but misguided by false teachers.



Don't get angry. Get smart. Take some time to learn about this, and you'll be a lot harder to dismiss. Here's some advice from an honest fellow YE creationist:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution. (Technically, they could also be deluded or lying, but that seems rather uncharitable to say. Oops.)

Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason. Faith is enough. If God said it, that should settle it. Maybe that's not enough for your scoffing professor or your non-Christian friends, but it should be enough for you.

YE creationist Dr. Todd Wood
The truth about evolution

As you continue to see, you're in way over your head here, with little understanding and a lot of creationist fairy tales you've been given by people you should not have trusted.

You guys love Coyne.. Haha Haha. Funny huh?

Evolution and atheism: Best friends forever: Jerry Coyne

By Jerry Coyne

Here's my thesis for the evening: The fact of evolution is not only inherently atheistic, it is inherently anti-theistic. It goes against the notion that there is a god.
Accepting evolution and science tends to promote the acceptance of atheism. Now, it doesn't always, of course. There are many religious people who accept evolution. I would say they're guilty of cognitive dissonance, or at least of some kind of watery deism.

The path from going to an evolutionary biologist to an atheist is pretty straightforward. You write a book on evolution with the indubitable facts showing that it has to be true, as true as the existence of gravity or neutrons, and then you realize that half of America is not going to buy it no matter what you say. Their minds cannot be changed; their eyes are blinkered.

And so you start studying what it is about religion that makes people resistant to evolution. You discover that religion is in some ways like science, but it's a pseudoscience. It makes scientific claims, or at least empirical claims, about the real world, but then adjudicates those claims in a completely different way from science.

So you start realizing that religion is perverting what you're trying to do with science by making statements about the world, but then supporting them with various cockamamie methods. And so you become an atheist and you might then become an anti-theist because you see that religion is promoting ways of thinking about the world that are not sound.

Natural pathway

This is a natural pathway; it's the same pathway Richard Dawkins went along — except that he [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off religious people more than I did.

Look at the subtitle of Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker: A World Without Design. A design-less world is one thing that religious people cannot bring themselves to accept. I'm not going to go over the evidence for evolution. You should either know it by now or, if you don't, buy my book. Let me just say it comes from many various areas of biology: embryology, the fossil record, morphology, genetics, biogeography. All these different areas come together to show that evolution, in fact, is true. As true as anything is in science.

Case closed, right? Well, no. Not in America, at least. The Gallup Poll has been surveying American attitudes toward evolution for 32 years and the results have held pretty steady. When it asks Americans, "How did humans get here?," 40 percent say, "We've always been here like we are now and so have all the other species and the Earth is about 10,000 years old." For over 30 years this has held steady.

Then we have the theistic evolutionists. Those are the people who accept evolution, but think that God was the motor that did it. And those respondents have pretty much hovered around 30 percent. There's a sort of heartening downswing in that in the latest years, which is mirrored by a heartening upswing in the number of naturalistic evolutionists, now up to 20 percent. Those who claim, yeah, we got here by naturalistic processes. This happens to be the truth, by the way.

It's not like people don't have access to the evidence and information of evolution. It's that people are blinkered to that truth by religion, and that's something that I think almost all of us know in our hearts.

Evolution deniers

Most people who say they accept evolution are nevertheless supernaturalists to some degree. Why? Because of religion. You scratch a creationist, you'll find a religionist. Intelligent design advocates have been described as creationists in a cheap tuxedo. They say intelligent design, but what they really mean is Jesus.

A poll taken by Gallup asked evolution deniers why they deny it. The first three reasons are all religious and don't have anything to do with evidence. "I believe in Jesus Christ," "I believe in the Almighty God," and "Due to my religion or faith." It's only when you get to the fourth most common answer — you can give only one answer in this poll — they say, "Well, there's not enough evidence for it."

The poll shows 83 percent of the people who reject evolution say the rejection has to do with their faith. It has nothing to do at all with evidence. There is a strong negative relationship, a highly statistically negative relationship, between religion and belief in evolution.

The countries that have the most belief in God have the lowest acceptance of Darwinism. Countries that have the least acceptance of God, the least belief in God, are those that accept evolution more. Countries in, say, sub-Saharan Africa or the Middle East, are not only highly religious, but they're also deeply opposed to evolution.

What's the reason for this relationship? This is mainly a correlation, not a causation, but I think there is some causality here. First of all, you can say, well, the higher your belief in God, the less likely you are to accept evolution. There's something about being religious that makes you less likely to accept Darwin, and I think that is indeed the case.

But the other alternative explanation is that the more you grow to accept evolution, the less you are likely to be religious. That's also plausible, but I think it's almost incontrovertibly true that the first explanation is the more correct one, simply because you know how it works in this country: People get their Jesus before they get their Darwin. By the time they get to biology class, they're already immune. They're immunized to evolutionary biology.

Religion hampers U.S.

Where's the United States in terms of religion and evolution? It's really bad. We're second from bottom. The only industrialized country that has less acceptance of evolution than we do is Turkey. So the reason why the U.S. is so resistant to evolution — as opposed to say France, Denmark and Sweden — is because we're one of the most religious "First World" countries.

We can do the same kind of correlation with states as we did with countries. At the top we have Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts. At the bottom: evolution denialists Arkansas, Tennessee and Utah. Sensing any pattern there?

I don't have the data on the religiosity of every state in the U.S., but what I did find were the 10 most religious states and the 10 least religious states. Those states that are the most religious are the ones that are the most evolution-denying states and vice versa, and there's no overlap between them. The more religious you are, the less likely are to accept evolution.

There's another factor that explains why different countries vary in their degrees of religiosity and why different states in the U.S. vary in their degrees of religiosity. And that has to do with well-being.

You see the same kind of relationship we saw for evolution and religion, but in this case those countries with the highest belief in God tend to be the countries that are the least well-off. Those countries that have the lowest belief in God tend to be the countries that have the most well-being. I don't think this is an accident.

Where is the U.S. here? You can say the reason why we reject evolution is because we're so religious. But why are we so religious? Because we're not really that well-off. We have high degrees of income inequality. We have no government health care (or not, at least, until recently), high incarceration rates and high child mortality compared to other countries.

So what's going on here? Well, again, you have a correlation and not causation. You can say two things. First, you can say that those countries that absolutely believe in God more tend to create societies that are bad. That is, it's the religiosity that somehow makes the societies dysfunctional. That's possible, but it just doesn't jibe with any notion of religion that I have.
 
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Your belief seems incompatible with Darwin's attribution of life to God.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.



You were misled by that, too. Darwin, when he formulated his theory, was an orthodox Anglican. As you just learned, Darwin wrote that God created the first living things. I realize that was a shock, and contrary to the stories you were told, but it's a fact. Try to find a way to live with it.

Fact is, Darwin suspected that he was to blame for his daughter's death. His research suggested that marriage of cousins, although acceptable in the Church and in society, was not a good idea and might lead to health problems. In fact, Annie died from tuberculosis, but science had not yet developed the germ theory of disease, so he didn't know.

His concerns were also motivated by fear of the consequences of marriage between relatives: Emma Wedgewood, his wife, was also his first cousin.1 The possible adverse effects of consanguineous marriage, which was not uncommon in England at that time, were a matter of debate. Annie’s death, and self-fertilization experiments in plants, made him suspect that ‘marriage between near relations is likewise injurious’.
Commentary: a Darwin family concern. - PubMed - NCBI
Commentary: The background and outcomes of the first-cousin marriage controversy in Great Britain. - PubMed - NCBI

Darwin, years after his daughter's death, admitted that he was "leaning toward agnosticism." But as you acknowledged, that was long after he wrote his book, in which he acknowledged that God created the first living things.



They lied to you about that as well. As you see, in 1872, Darwin acknowledged that God created life long after Annie's death. It was a shameful slander on the part of whoever passed you that story.

Didnt you know that?

No, I hope you didn't. I think you are sincere, but misguided by false teachers.



Don't get angry. Get smart. Take some time to learn about this, and you'll be a lot harder to dismiss. Here's some advice from an honest fellow YE creationist:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution. (Technically, they could also be deluded or lying, but that seems rather uncharitable to say. Oops.)

Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason. Faith is enough. If God said it, that should settle it. Maybe that's not enough for your scoffing professor or your non-Christian friends, but it should be enough for you.

YE creationist Dr. Todd Wood
The truth about evolution

As you continue to see, you're in way over your head here, with little understanding and a lot of creationist fairy tales you've been given by people you should not have trusted.

Yeah.. Coyne actually is a lot smarter than you are about this particular subjec . Wouldn't you agree?. LOL


"Accepting evolution and science tends to promote the acceptance of atheism. Now, it doesn't always, of course. There are many religious people who accept evolution. I would say they're guilty of cognitive dissonance, or at least of some kind of watery deism."

JERRY COYNE..

Evolution and atheism: Best friends forever: Jerry Coyne - Freedom From Religion Foundation
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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"He has assailed Neo-Darwinian theory, but not evolution itself. "

You were fooled by who ever fed you that quote. How do I know that you copied it from someone else, and never read the article?

You see, Macbeth is not antievolution, and acknowledges that evolution is a fact. He has assailed Neo-Darwinian theory, but not evolution itself. Would you like me to show you that?

I guess we get to play the dishonest Darwinian game of semantics....

Before we continue...

YOU need to clarify what you mean SPECIFICALLY when you use the duplicitous and purposely vague term "Evolution"..

DO YOU MEAN..

(1)... Variation, Adaptation, Speciation or ....De-volution?.. i.e. ..Finches beaks, Cave fish going blind, Moth colors, Weak bacteria lacking enzymes targeted by antibiotics, Dog ears, Mutated fruit flies with 2 WORTHLESS extra wings, Bear coats, Dog Ears and Squirrel tails?

OR DO YOU MEAN ...

(2)....Slow Microbe to Microbiologist (UCA for all flora and fauna over 3 BYs) And DONT sit there and try to assert that #1 plus "deep time" leads to #2 as I will embarrass that silly assertion all over the internet..

You will be required to put your cards on the table here....

I just KNOW you are going to enjoy this discussion with me... Cant you feel it too?
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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You were fooled by who ever fed you that quote. How do I know that you copied it from someone else, and never read the article?

You see, Macbeth is not antievolution, and acknowledges that evolution is a fact. He has assailed Neo-Darwinian theory, but not evolution itself. Would you like me to show you that?

"The Darwinian theory of evolution is the phlogiston of our day, festooned with a myriad and growing number of patches. Evolution is slow and gradual, except when it’s fast. It is dynamic and creates huge changes over time, except when it keeps everything the same for millions of years. It explains both extreme complexity and elegant simplicity. It tells us how birds learned to fly and how some lost that ability. Evolution makes cheetahs fast and turtles slow. Some creatures it made big and others small; some gloriously beautiful, and some boringly grey. It forced fish to walk and walking animals to return to the sea. It diverges except with it converges; it produces exquisitely fine-tuned designs except when it produces junk. Evolution is random and without direction except when it moves toward a target. Life under evolution is a cruel battlefield except when it demonstrates altruism. And it does all this with a growing number of ancillary hypotheses. Modern evolutionary theory is the Rube Goldberg of theoretical constructs. And what is the result of all this speculative ingenuity? Like the defunct theory of phlogiston, it explains everything without explaining anything well." Leisola / Witt
 
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Job 33:6

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Famous Christians Who Believed Evolution is Compatible with Christian Faith - Articles

Famous Christians Who Believed Evolution is Compatible with Christian Faith

B.B. Warfield (1851-1921)
Theologian, key defender of the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy

I do not think that there is any general statement in the Bible or any part of the account of creation, either as given in Genesis 1 and 2 or elsewhere alluded to, that need be opposed to evolution. […] There is no necessaryantagonism of Christianity to evolution, provided that we do not hold to too extreme a form of evolution. [1]

Karl Barth (1886-1968)
Theologian, prominent member of “Confessing Church” that opposed Hitler and Nazism

The creation story deals only with the becoming of all things, and therefore with the revelation of God, which is inaccessible to science as such. The theory of evolution deals with that which has become, as it appears to human observation and research and as it invites human interpretation. Thus one’s attitude to the creation story and the theory of evolution can take the form of an either/or only if one shuts oneself off completely either from faith in God’s revelation or from the mind (or opportunity) for scientific understanding.[2]

Billy Graham (1918-2018)
Evangelist, pastor, and author
I don’t think that there’s any conflict at all between science today and the Scriptures. I think that we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we’ve tried to make the Scriptures say things they weren’t meant to say. I think that we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course I accept the Creation story. I believe that God did create the universe. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man. […] whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man’s relationship to God.[3]

C.S. Lewis (1898-1963)
Author, scholar, and apologist

We must sharply distinguish between Evolution as a biological theorem and popular Evolutionism or Developmentalism which is certainly a Myth. […] To the biologist Evolution […] covers more of the facts than any other hypothesis at present on the market and is therefore to be accepted unless, or until, some new supposal can be shown to cover still more facts with even fewer assumptions.[4]

For long centuries God perfected the animal form which was to become the vehicle of humanity and the image of Himself. He gave it hands whose thumb could be applied to each of the fingers, and jaws and teeth and throat capable of articulation, and a brain sufficiently complex to execute all the material motions whereby rational thought is incarnated. The creature may have existed for ages in this state before it became man: it may even have been clever enough to make things which a modern archaeologist would accept as proof of its humanity. But it was only an animal because all its physical and psychical processes were directed to purely material and natural ends. Then, in the fullness of time, God caused to descend upon this organism, both on its psychology and physiology, a new kind of consciousness which could say “I” and “me,” which could look upon itself as an object, which knew God, which could make judgments of truth, beauty, and goodness, and which was so far above time that it could perceive time flowing past.[5]

Indeed, modern sciences are not in contradiction with scripture, and modern science is not atheistic in nature.
 
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The Barbarian

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Evolution is slow and gradual, except when it’s fast.

Yep. For example, we see some marine creatures like Limulus, who have lived in very constant environments for hundreds of millions of years, and they've changed very little. On the other hand, when a population moves into a new environment, natural selection rapidly changes them, like those lizards observed to have evolved a new digestive organ in a few decades. Darwin pointed out that this would change the pacing of evolution. Would you like me to show you this?

It is dynamic and creates huge changes over time, except when it keeps everything the same for millions of years.

See above. It's an integral part of Darwinian theory, and as you see, he correctly predicted this. Natural selection, for a well-fitted population in a constant environment, will actually prevent evolution.

This goes back to my original point; if you knew what evolutionary theory is, you'd be a lot more effective discussing it.
 
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Indeed, modern sciences are not in contradiction with scripture, and modern science is not atheistic in nature.

Can't be. Because it's limited by its very methodology to the natural world, it can say nothing at all about the supernatural. It can neither affirm nor deny anything supernatural. Hence, it can't be atheistic. Science can't comment on God.

But scientists can.
 
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I guess we get to play the dishonest Darwinian game of semantics....

Before we continue...

YOU need to clarify what you mean SPECIFICALLY when you use the duplicitous and purposely vague term "Evolution"..

If you find it confusing, you could use Darwin's term; "descent with modification." He only used "evolved" once in his book. This is why I suggested that you go and learn what the term means. You chose to ignore my suggestion,and so you're still flailing around in the dark. Here's the scientific term: "a change in allele frequencies in a population over time." This changed when Darwin's theory was modified by the new science of genetics.

DO YOU MEAN..

...you've been whacking away at a bogeyman who doesn't exist. Yep.

I just KNOW you are going to enjoy this discussion with me... Cant you feel it too?

Can't remember enjoying this kind of conversation more.
 
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The Barbarian

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Your belief seems incompatible with Darwin's attribution of life to God.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species

Perhaps you should spend a little more time learning about the subject.
You were misled by that, too. Darwin, when he formulated his theory, was an orthodox Anglican. As you just learned, Darwin wrote that God created the first living things. I realize that was a shock, and contrary to the stories you were told, but it's a fact. Try to find a way to live with it.

Yeah.. Coyne actually is a lot smarter than you are about this particular subjec . Wouldn't you agree?.

Darwin obviously is the expert on his theory, and as you learned, he attributed the origin of life to God. Atheists, like creationists have an ideological axe to grind, wanting science and God to be incompatible. But most of us know better. Darwin says God created the first living things. And atheists and creationists get upset about it.

Atheists and YE creationists are opposed to God the Creator.
 
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coffee4u

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Famous Christians Who Believed Evolution is Compatible with Christian Faith - Articles

Famous Christians Who Believed Evolution is Compatible with Christian Faith

B.B. Warfield (1851-1921)
Theologian, key defender of the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy

I do not think that there is any general statement in the Bible or any part of the account of creation, either as given in Genesis 1 and 2 or elsewhere alluded to, that need be opposed to evolution. […] There is no necessaryantagonism of Christianity to evolution, provided that we do not hold to too extreme a form of evolution. [1]

Karl Barth (1886-1968)
Theologian, prominent member of “Confessing Church” that opposed Hitler and Nazism

The creation story deals only with the becoming of all things, and therefore with the revelation of God, which is inaccessible to science as such. The theory of evolution deals with that which has become, as it appears to human observation and research and as it invites human interpretation. Thus one’s attitude to the creation story and the theory of evolution can take the form of an either/or only if one shuts oneself off completely either from faith in God’s revelation or from the mind (or opportunity) for scientific understanding.[2]

Billy Graham (1918-2018)
Evangelist, pastor, and author
I don’t think that there’s any conflict at all between science today and the Scriptures. I think that we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we’ve tried to make the Scriptures say things they weren’t meant to say. I think that we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course I accept the Creation story. I believe that God did create the universe. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man. […] whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man’s relationship to God.[3]

C.S. Lewis (1898-1963)
Author, scholar, and apologist

We must sharply distinguish between Evolution as a biological theorem and popular Evolutionism or Developmentalism which is certainly a Myth. […] To the biologist Evolution […] covers more of the facts than any other hypothesis at present on the market and is therefore to be accepted unless, or until, some new supposal can be shown to cover still more facts with even fewer assumptions.[4]

For long centuries God perfected the animal form which was to become the vehicle of humanity and the image of Himself. He gave it hands whose thumb could be applied to each of the fingers, and jaws and teeth and throat capable of articulation, and a brain sufficiently complex to execute all the material motions whereby rational thought is incarnated. The creature may have existed for ages in this state before it became man: it may even have been clever enough to make things which a modern archaeologist would accept as proof of its humanity. But it was only an animal because all its physical and psychical processes were directed to purely material and natural ends. Then, in the fullness of time, God caused to descend upon this organism, both on its psychology and physiology, a new kind of consciousness which could say “I” and “me,” which could look upon itself as an object, which knew God, which could make judgments of truth, beauty, and goodness, and which was so far above time that it could perceive time flowing past.[5]

Indeed, modern sciences are not in contradiction with scripture, and modern science is not atheistic in nature.

And I would ask the same of them as I have often asked here, how is your model supported by scripture? What are you basing this teaching on? What explanation do you give for Romans 5 of no death before sin and how does this work with evolution? If God making Adam from the dust is a parable what is it teaching and what scripture support do you have for this? If Adam is an allegory how did he die at 930? What is your teaching and explanations for those and all the other verses that contradict millions of years of death? Basically, what is your doctrine?
It's no good saying
"There is no necessary antagonism of Christianity to evolution"
You can't make a statement like that and just leave it like that. Anyone could say anything in that case.
"provided that we do not hold to too extreme a form of evolution."
Lol, what ^ does that mean?
 
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