Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

[The Barbarian]

Since "theistic evolution" implies that there was a supernatural intelligence agent (God) involved in the process, What is the identity of this unknown "god of evolution"?

Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham. So do most scientists today.

Does it have a name?

We refer to Him as "He." And we always capitalize the word. I'd appreciate it if you could show Him that respect. He is your Maker, after all.

"The day will come when the evidence constantly accumulating around the evolutionary theory becomes so massively persuasive that even the last and most fundamental
Christian warriors will have to lay down their arms and surrender unconditionally. I believe that day will be the end of Christianity.” “The Meaning of Evolution”, American Atheist

Since most of the world's Christians now say that their faith if entirely consistent with evolution, your guy is out of luck.

While YE creationist has been an effective atheist-maker, many evangelicals are no thinking that there's nothing wrong with God; there's something wrong with YE creationism:

Why some evangelicals changed their minds about evolution
But this month, another group of evangelicals is making a very different case – minus any animatronic critters -- in a new book, "How I Changed My Mind About Evolution."


It promotes the idea that one can be serious about Christian faith and still accept a scientific Darwinian account of human origins. BioLogos, the organization of pro-evolution Christians in the sciences founded by famed geneticist Francis Collins, teamed with InterVarsity Press to publish a collection of 25 personal essays from clergy, scholars and scientists.
Why some evangelicals changed their minds about evolution

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.


"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"


That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
Old Earth Creation Science Testimony - Why I Left Young Earth Creationism, by Glenn Morton

This is the real damage that the man-made doctrine of YE creationism does to Christian faith. And there's this bit of unorthodox religious invention:

Christianity has fought, still fights, and will fight science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus’ earthly life was supposedly made necessary. Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the sorry remains of the son of god.
Take away the meaning of his death. If Jesus was not the redeemer that died for our sins, and this is what evolution means, then Christianity is nothing." G. Richard Bozarth,

God doesn't care at all if you like the way He created things. You can be a YE creationist, and as long as you don't build an idol of your new faith, you can still be saved. That's not how God will judge you.

And then there's this foolishness:

Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, as secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr. Gish is but one of many to make it—
the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today” (Ruse).

As you see, the evolutionists here don't see it as a secular religion at all. So Mr. Ruse is wrong from the get-go. Like other atheists and YE creationists, he wants to drive a wedge between God and His creation. He might be invincibly ignorant and blameless thereby. What about you?

It's no secret that YE creationists and atheists share that agenda. But Christian belief requires no such divorce of God and creation. Real Christians are quite comfortable with whatever God chose:

I don’t think that there’s any conflict at all between science today and the Scriptures. I think we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we’ve tried to make the Scriptures say things that they weren’t meant to say, and I think we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course, I accept the Creation story. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man … whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man’s relationship to God.
Rev. Billy Graham
Evolutionary Creation

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham. So do most scientists today.



We refer to Him as "He." And we always capitalize the word. I'd appreciate it if you could show Him that respect. He is your Maker, after all.



Since most of the world's Christians now say that their faith if entirely consistent with evolution, your guy is out of luck.

While YE creationist has been an effective atheist-maker, many evangelicals are no thinking that there's nothing wrong with God; there's something wrong with YE creationism:

Why some evangelicals changed their minds about evolution
But this month, another group of evangelicals is making a very different case – minus any animatronic critters -- in a new book, "How I Changed My Mind About Evolution."


It promotes the idea that one can be serious about Christian faith and still accept a scientific Darwinian account of human origins. BioLogos, the organization of pro-evolution Christians in the sciences founded by famed geneticist Francis Collins, teamed with InterVarsity Press to publish a collection of 25 personal essays from clergy, scholars and scientists.
Why some evangelicals changed their minds about evolution

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.


"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"


That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
Old Earth Creation Science Testimony - Why I Left Young Earth Creationism, by Glenn Morton

This is the real damage that the man-made doctrine of YE creationism does to Christian faith. And there's this bit of unorthodox religious invention:

Christianity has fought, still fights, and will fight science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus’ earthly life was supposedly made necessary. Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the sorry remains of the son of god.
Take away the meaning of his death. If Jesus was not the redeemer that died for our sins, and this is what evolution means, then Christianity is nothing." G. Richard Bozarth,

God doesn't care at all if you like the way He created things. You can be a YE creationist, and as long as you don't build an idol of your new faith, you can still be saved. That's not how God will judge you.

And then there's this foolishness:

Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, as secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr. Gish is but one of many to make it—
the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today” (Ruse).

As you see, the evolutionists here don't see it as a secular religion at all. So Mr. Ruse is wrong from the get-go. Like other atheists and YE creationists, he wants to drive a wedge between God and His creation. He might be invincibly ignorant and blameless thereby. What about you?

It's no secret that YE creationists and atheists share that agenda. But Christian belief requires no such divorce of God and creation. Real Christians are quite comfortable with whatever God chose:

I don’t think that there’s any conflict at all between science today and the Scriptures. I think we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we’ve tried to make the Scriptures say things that they weren’t meant to say, and I think we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course, I accept the Creation story. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man … whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man’s relationship to God.
Rev. Billy Graham
Evolutionary Creation

"Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham."

Who cares what Darwin "thought".. (As if Evolutionists have some special mind reading powers)

"So do most scientists today."

LOL.... More mind reading skills?
I thought that the realm of scientific enquiry was supposed to be limited to NATURALISTIC methodology?

And NOW you are giving what you "believe" are the opinions of scientists (IRRELEVANT) to answer my question?

LOL.... No wonder they are called Oval-Earthers..

BTW
All those quote mines have ZERO to do with S L O W microbe to man evolution.. They are referring to adaptation Speciation or variation... Nice Bait and Switch tactic that has been used by Evolutionists for years to fool and dupe the public.... Brainwashing and indoctrinating generations of unsuspecting and gullible high school students.. A picture is worth 1000 words ..

Google Image Result for https://dl0.creation.com/articles/p104/c10429/evolution-happening-in-lab.jpg

 

[The Barbarian]

"Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham."

Who cares what Darwin "thought"..

God does, for example.

All those quote mines have ZERO to do with S L O W microbe to man evolution..

You keep forgetting. Humans evolved from other primates, not microbes.

They are referring to adaptation Speciation or variation...

Yep. Speciation is what does it. As you learned, your fellow YE creationists cite the fossil record of hominds as "very good evidence" for those speciations. Would you like me to show you that, again?


There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well....Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason. Faith is enough. If God said it, that should settle it. Maybe that's not enough for your scoffing professor or your non-Christian friends, but it should be enough for you.
The truth about evolution

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

"Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham."


"Who cares what Darwin "thought"..

God does, for example."

Now I see.. You now speak for God.. Which of course what you have been doing all along.. After all, you know more than the Judeo Christian God of the Bible does about HIS creation and the flood of Noah..

NOW

Here is a chance for you to redeem your failures up till now... Here is a good website (One of the ones that I write for) where I invite ANYONE to provide scientific evidence to support the crazy idea that a single microscopic bio organism evolved into all flora and fauna on planet Earth... Here is your chance!! Better make it good as you are getting a failing grade in this CLASSROOM champ! Best wishes and have a good night! Blitzking

SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT "EVOLUTION"?



God does, for example.



You keep forgetting. Humans evolved from other primates, not microbes.



Yep. Speciation is what does it. As you learned, your fellow YE creationists cite the fossil record of hominds as "very good evidence" for those speciations. Would you like me to show you that, again?


There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well....Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason. Faith is enough. If God said it, that should settle it. Maybe that's not enough for your scoffing professor or your non-Christian friends, but it should be enough for you.
The truth about evolution

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

"Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham."


"Who cares what Darwin "thought"..

God does, for example."

Now I see.. You now speak for God.. Which of course what you have been doing all along.. After all, you know more than the Judeo Christian God of the Bible does about HIS creation and the flood of Noah..

NOW

Here is a chance for you to redeem your failures up till now... Here is a good website (One of the ones that I write for) where I invite ANYONE to provide scientific evidence to support the crazy idea that a single microscopic bio organism evolved into all flora and fauna on planet Earth... Here is your chance!! Better make it good as you are getting a failing grade in this CLASSROOM champ! Best wishes and have a good night! Blitzking

SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT "EVOLUTION"?

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

"Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham."



God does, for example.



You keep forgetting. Humans evolved from other primates, not microbes.



Yep. Speciation is what does it. As you learned, your fellow YE creationists cite the fossil record of hominds as "very good evidence" for those speciations. Would you like me to show you that, again?


There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well....Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason. Faith is enough. If God said it, that should settle it. Maybe that's not enough for your scoffing professor or your non-Christian friends, but it should be enough for you.
The truth about evolution

"Yep. Speciation is what does it. "

And HERE is the problem inherent with that logic..

"Speciation" is NOT evolution!!


SMALL CHANGES PLUS DEEP TIME LEADS TO LARGE CHANGES? (By Jim Thinnsen)

.
Sorry, it doesnt work that way.!!!

Even though Atheists lie and say it has been debunked, (which it hasn't,) everything is IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX... That is why I ask for, and NEVER GET, a plausible evolutionary order for man's 10 VITAL organs.. if a bacteria, protists or an amoeba S L O W L Y evolved into a human (or ANY mammal) as we are told,.. there must have been a Chronological evolutionary order for our 10 VITAL organs.. Which VITAL organ evolved 1st? Heart? 2nd? Lungs? 3rd Brain? 4th? Pancreas? 5th? Skin? 6th Liver? 7th? U intestine? 8th? Stomach? 9th? L intestine? 10? Kidneys? Oh, dont forget all of the support systems and the fact that all of these organs are interlocked and ALL must be working together perfectly in tandem or we DIE. And guess what?? DEAD THINGS CANT EVOLVE!! Get the idea? So go ahead and provide a plausible evolutionary order for mans 10 VITAL organs from 1 through 10.. I will even allow Abiogenesis, Dinosaur red blood cells, Symbiotic relationships, 500 million year old "living fossils", polystrate trees, and all of the other "challenges" because you can bury those into the fairytale of "Long ago and far away".. miracles that you can pretend that you dont actually think about using logic, reason, or critical thinking but the 10 VITAL organs is your Achilles Heel... now either provide an evolutionary ORDER for our 10 VITAL ORGANS that passes the comic book laugh test or just go away as YOUR religion is a hopeless fraud and you will be forced to tacitly recognize as such with your silence......

"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fullfilled Atheist" Richard Dawkins

 

[Radagast]

Since "theistic evolution" implies that there was a supernatural intelligence agent (God) involved in the process, What is the identity of this unknown "god of evolution"? Does it have a name?Do you know? Because it sure isn't the Judeo Christian God of the Bible..

Well, rightly or wrongly, many Christians believe that it is the God of the Bible.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yep. Speciation is what does it.

And HERE is the problem inherent with that logic..

"Speciation" is NOT evolution!!

You already learned that it is. Remember what evolution is? We just taught you. "Change in allele frequencies in a population over time.

SMALL CHANGES PLUS DEEP TIME LEADS TO LARGE CHANGES?

Just small changes lead to big changes. As you also learned, your fellow YE creationists admit the fossil record is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."

Sorry, it doesnt work that way.!!!

You just learned that it does.

Even though Atheists lie and say it has been debunked, (which it hasn't,) everything is IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX...

Irreducibly complex features evolve. Barry Hall's bacteria evolved a new, irreducibly complex enzyme system. Would you like me to show you that?

That is why I ask for, and NEVER GET, a plausible evolutionary order for man's 10 VITAL organs..

You haven't shown us why you think there are only ten. Or why you think other primates don't have them. I'm pretty sure you have no idea of either.

if a bacteria, protists or an amoeba S L O W L Y evolved into a human (or ANY mammal) as we are told,..

Nope. Humans evolved from other primates.

there must have been a Chronological evolutionary order for our 10 VITAL organs..

You still haven't told us why you think their are only ten, or which ones you think don't exist in other primates. You really have no idea, do you?

As you now realize, those ten vital organs, (and others) existed in other primates long before there were humans. Someone told you otherwise,and it's causing you no end of frustration.

 

[The Barbarian]

Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham.

Who cares what Darwin "thought"..

God does, for example.

Now I see.. You now speak for God.

Just pointing out that the Bible says He cares and wants us to acknowledge Him as Creator. Why does that offend you?

Here is a chance for you to redeem your failures up till now... Here is a good website (One of the ones that I write for) where I invite ANYONE to provide scientific evidence to support the crazy idea that a single microscopic bio organism evolved into all flora and fauna on planet Earth... Here is your chance!!

You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor. DNA sorts out to the same nested hierarchy of taxa that was first discovered by Linnaeus, long before we knew about genes or evolution. And we know it works, because we can test it on organisms of known descent.

No point in denying the fact.

I get that you're frustrated. You're seeing a lot of things for the first time. Just hold on a little longer.

And say "Hi" to Fred Williams for me. He might be a YE creationist, but he's a true Christian, and a decent human being. We've argued at length, and then we found we actually liked and respected each other. Hope he's doing well.

I know Fred Williams? Yep. You'd be rather surprised to find out who I know. Not my first rodeo.

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham.



God does, for example.



Just pointing out that the Bible says He cares and wants us to acknowledge Him as Creator. Why does that offend you?



You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor. DNA sorts out to the same nested hierarchy of taxa that was first discovered by Linnaeus, long before we knew about genes or evolution. And we know it works, because we can test it on organisms of known descent.

No point in denying the fact.

I get that you're frustrated. You're seeing a lot of things for the first time. Just hold on a little longer.

And say "Hi" to Fred Williams for me. He might be a YE creationist, but he's a true Christian, and a decent human being. We've argued at length, and then we found we actually liked and respected each other. Hope he's doing well.

I know Fred Williams? Yep. You'd be rather surprised to find out who I know. Not my first rodeo.

Yes I know Fred.. You know Fred, Now you know Me.. BTW.. I notice that you didnt mention any desire to get involved and show us the evidence for SLOW microbe to Microbiologist... ("TOE") I dont blame you as it never ends well for the wannabe apes..


"You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor"

I still cant fathom where you get the idea that your making assertions based on Imagination is somehow me "Learning" something.. LOL

YAWN

I'll try again.. The single common ancestor for all flora and fauna routine (Evolution) has been roundly laughed out of the room by any and all serious people..
Irreducible complexity makes it impossible.. Atheists lie and say that irreducible complexity has been debunked, but that is just another falsehood..

The fairytale of Evolutionism is a rotting corpse that would have been discarded into the dustbin of history decades ago if not for the fact that its IMPLICATIONS happen to align with the philosophical worldview of many people who dont like the idea of God telling them how to behave.. I am guessing that you are among that crowd.. Jesus said that "by their fruits he shall know them" And the fruit of Satans greatest lie of Evolutionism is as rotten as can be....

"You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor"

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

Darwin thought it is the God Who spoke to Abraham.


"Just pointing out that the Bible says
God does, for example."

This is great! Now you are pointing out verses in the Bible.. I thought the Bible was false according to you, now you are using it? Cant make it up..



Just pointing out that the Bible says He cares and wants us to acknowledge Him as Creator. Why does that offend you?



You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor. DNA sorts out to the same nested hierarchy of taxa that was first discovered by Linnaeus, long before we knew about genes or evolution. And we know it works, because we can test it on organisms of known descent.

No point in denying the fact.

I get that you're frustrated. You're seeing a lot of things for the first time. Just hold on a little longer.

And say "Hi" to Fred Williams for me. He might be a YE creationist, but he's a true Christian, and a decent human being. We've argued at length, and then we found we actually liked and respected each other. Hope he's doing well.

I know Fred Williams? Yep. You'd be rather surprised to find out who I know. Not my first rodeo.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes I know Fred.. You know Fred, Now you know Me.. BTW.. I notice that you didnt mention any desire to get involved and show us the evidence for SLOW microbe to Microbiologist...

As you now realize, humans didn't evolve from microbes; they evolved from other primates.

I still cant fathom where you get the idea that your making assertions based on Imagination is somehow me "Learning" something.. LOL

Sorry, genetic analyses show common descent is a fact. Many YE creationists now acknowledge a limited amount of common descent, based on DNA relationships.

Phylogenetic tree - Wikipedia

I'll try again.. The single common ancestor for all flora and fauna routine (Evolution) has been roundly laughed out of the room by any and all serious people..

See above. They lied to you about that, too. The same genetic evidence used by AIG and the ICR for the descent of new species, genera, and families, also applies to orders, classes, phyla, kingdoms, and domains. No point in denying the fact.

Irreducible complexity makes it impossible..

Irreducible complexity evolves. That irreducibly complex enzyme system I mentioned, evolved by a number of steps. First the enzyme evolved, and then a regulator evolved so that the system would only work in the presence of the substrate. So the system was composed of three parts, enzyme, substrate, and regulator, and would not work unless all three parts were present.

Which, as you might know, is Behe's definition of "irreducible complexity."

The fairytale of Evolutionism is a rotting corpse that would have been discarded into the dustbin of history decades ago if not for the fact that its IMPLICATIONS happen to align with the philosophical worldview of many people who dont like the idea of God telling them how to behave.

You've already seen that honest YE creationists say otherwise. Do we need to show you again? Set your pride aside, let God do it His way, and this will cease to trouble you.

 

[coffee4u]

"You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor"
I will assume @Radagast said this?

Genetics show that all living things on earth have things in common. That is the actual fact.

"all living things on Earth have a common ancestor"

This is not a fact, but a theory developed to try and understand the fact. Like all stories based around a fact, it came from someone's imagination.

I believe genetics show things in common because the same creator made them all out of the same material. The fact of the genetics did not change, only the interpretation of why it is there did.

Even if every life form on earth shared 99% DNA this still would not prove common ancestry, it would only prove lifeforms share 99% common DNA.

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

"I get that you're frustrated. You're seeing a lot of things for the first time."

Nothing you have presented up till this point s anything I havent seen before DOZENS of times.. But I am starting to catch on to your special brand of off beat humor!!

"Just hold on a little longer"

I guess there is a first time for everything.. Maybe someday, someone will actually provide some bona fide scientific evidence to support the crazy fairytale that all flora and fauna descended from the same microbial ancestor (that somehow emerged from dead matter) over 3 billion years ago.. You know, the long debunked myth of Evolutionism? I wont hold my breath waiting for the evidence though..

Just remember 2 things, IMAGINATION is NOT evidence and variation is NOT evolution.... if you just keep those two principles in mind you will finally figure our that you have been lied to... Best wishes!! JT

 

[Radagast]

"You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor"
I will assume @Radagast said this?

I'm pretty sure that I said nothing of the kind. Why would you think that?

Genetics show that all living things on earth have things in common. That is the actual fact.

Correct.

 

[coffee4u]

I'm pretty sure that I said nothing of the kind. Why would you think that?

I saw that in jJIM THINNSEN post but don't know who said it - I have a few people on ignore.

 

[The Barbarian]

You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor

Genetics show that all living things on earth have things in common. That is the actual fact.

This is not a fact,

It's a demonstrable fact. Genes sort out into a family tree, showing common descent. This was discovered long before anyone knew about evolution. Linnaeus first showed it before Darwin was born.

but a theory developed to try and understand the fact.

Yes. It was first a hypothesis, which you sort of describe here:

Like all stories based around a fact, it came from someone's imagination.

It wasn't a theory until Darwin's predictions were repeatedly confirmed by evidence. A hypothesis becomes a theory only after repeated verification of predictions by new evidence.

I believe genetics show things in common because the same creator made them all out of the same material.

That belief won't work. It can't explain, for example, why bats are genetically and anatomically more like horses than they are like birds.

The fact of the genetics did not change, only the interpretation of why it is there did.

Some interpretations fit the facts, and some don't. Yours doesn't work.

Even if every life form on earth shared 99% DNA this still would not prove common ancestry

Right. That would be a real problem for the idea of common ancestry. The fact that the genes of organisms show a family tree of descent indicates common ancestry. If they were all similarly alike, that would not show common descent.

And we can check that idea by looking at organisms of known descent.

it would only prove lifeforms share 99% common DNA.[/QUOTE]

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor

Genetics show that all living things on earth have things in common. That is the actual fact.



It's a demonstrable fact. Genes sort out into a family tree, showing common descent. This was discovered long before anyone knew about evolution. Linnaeus first showed it before Darwin was born.



Yes. It was first a hypothesis, which you sort of describe here:



It wasn't a theory until Darwin's predictions were repeatedly confirmed by evidence. A hypothesis becomes a theory only after repeated verification of predictions by new evidence.



That belief won't work. It can't explain, for example, why bats are genetically and anatomically more like horses than they are like birds.



Some interpretations fit the facts, and some don't. Yours doesn't work.



Right. That would be a real problem for the idea of common ancestry. The fact that the genes of organisms show a family tree of descent indicates common ancestry. If they were all similarly alike, that would not show common descent.

And we can check that idea by looking at organisms of known descent.

it would only prove lifeforms share 99% common DNA.

[/QUOTE]


"And we can check that idea by looking at organisms of known descent."

SUCH AS?

If we didnt share DNA with all other flora and fauna we wouldn't be able to assimilate the amino acids and nutrients and would all have to be CANNIBALS in order to survive.. That shows common DESIGN.. You can give us a graph of lines on paper drawn by an ARTIST and claim that it is the Phlogenetic Tree but there is no way to Test Observe Demonstrate Verify Repeat or Falsify it.. It is just a religious belief in Metaphysical Naturalism because the IMPLICATIONS of the fairytale happen to align with the philosophical worldview of many people who dont like the idea of a creator that they have to be accountable to.. A good way to remove those blinders would be to repent for claiming to know more than God and his Son do about the subject of Origins and the Flood of Noah and become born again of the spirit and become a member of the family of God.. Like I was telling Coffee 4U I have NEVER met an evolutionist who has been born again in spirit and in truth (ie a Christian) as Christ commanded his followers to do.. I'm guessing that they may exist somewhere, but if they do, they must be rarer than hens teeth and keep the Evolution nonsense to themselves, they DEFINITELY arent out there militantly promoting Satan's lies for the Atheists... I notice you quoted Billy Graham who claimed that God may have used a form of "Evolution" (There we are back to that slippery deceptive purposely vague and duplicitous word again) Are you claiming that Billy Graham denied Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden and Noah's Flood like YOU do? LOL.... NO NO NO!!! Graham was surely referring to OBSERVABLE FACTS of Variation Adaptation and Speciation of each created kind.. You know SCIENCE!!! BTW. Do you believe in the Law of Monophyly ?

 

[The Barbarian]

It's a demonstrable fact. Genes sort out into a family tree, showing common descent. This was discovered long before anyone knew about evolution. Linnaeus first showed it before Darwin was born.

And we can check that idea by looking at organisms of known descent.

SUCH AS?

Humans, for example. Family and ancestral relationships can be traced by genetic analysis, showing common descent among family members.

If we didnt share DNA with all other flora and fauna we wouldn't be able to assimilate the amino acids and nutrients and would all have to be CANNIBALS in order to survive..

No, that's wrong. DNA variations do not determine what amino acids organisms need. Where did you get that idea?

That shows common DESIGN..

Nope. As genetic data shows, it indicates common descent. And that evidence was found before Darwin was born. C'mon.

You can give us a graph of lines on paper drawn by an ARTIST and claim that it is the Phlogenetic Tree but there is no way to Test Observe Demonstrate Verify Repeat or Falsify it..

They lied to you about that, too. In fact, the phylogenetic tree was first done, using phenotypes, but the same tree is found using fossil transitionals and genetic analyses. In fact the transitionals and genetic results were predicted, based in the phenotypic data.

It is just a religious belief in Metaphysical Naturalism because the IMPLICATIONS of the fairytale happen to align with the philosophical worldview of many people who dont like the idea of a creator that they have to be accountable to..

As you learned, your fairytale is easily debunked by the fact that Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God. A good way for you to remove those blinders would be to learn something about evolution and the theory that explains it, and to repent for claiming to know more than God and his Son do about the subject of Origins.

You'd be a much better Christian for it. Remember, God is truth. If you're a Christian, you shouldn't be afraid of the truth.

Like I was telling Coffee 4U I have NEVER met an evolutionist who has been born again in spirit and in truth (ie a Christian) as Christ commanded his followers to do..

You don't know many Christians, then. I know scores of them. You're struggling against accepting the truth, because your man-made belief of YE creationism is precious to you. You have to be willing to give up your own desires if you want to have a close relationship with God.

I notice you quoted Billy Graham who claimed that God may have used a form of "Evolution"

Yes. Graham was well-acquainted with scripture and knew that it didn't rule out evolution,and he knew that one's salvation doesn't depend on what you think of it. He wasn't perfect, but he was willing to accept God as God is. You could do that, if you'd set your pride aside.

Are you claiming that Billy Graham denied Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden and Noah's Flood like YOU do?

If you feel the need to lie about what I believe to make a point, isn't that a pretty good indication that there's something wrong with your new doctrines?

LOL.... NO NO NO!!! Graham was surely referring to OBSERVABLE FACTS of Variation Adaptation and Speciation of each created kind.. You know SCIENCE!!!

Pretty much what Darwin said. Yes.

BTW. Do you believe in the Law of Monophyly ?

The word has been used in various ways. Most recently, it's been used in cladistic theories to indicate a group in which all members are descendants of a common ancestor. In the past it was used by creationists, to describe those creationists who thought all humans today are descended from Adam and Eve, as opposed to the polyphylest creationists, who thought black people were not descended from Adam and Eve.

The last world-class biologist who accepted creationism, Agassiz, did not think Africans were descended from Adam and Eve. His ideas lived on for a long time in the creationist community in the United States, but you find few creationists like that, today. Even creationists usually admit humans are monophyletic. Neither of these ideas, properly speaking, is a law. Which did you refer to?

 

[jJIM THINNSEN]

You already learned that genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor

Genetics show that all living things on earth have things in common. That is the actual fact.


"It wasn't a theory until Darwin's predictions were repeatedly confirmed by evidence. A hypothesis becomes a theory only after repeated verification of predictions by new evidence."

"That belief won't work. It can't explain, for example, why bats are genetically and anatomically more like horses than they are like birds."

Because God designed them that way in the beginning when he created them.. God cares ZERO about Atheists opinions about genetic and anatomic similarities in their futile attempt to eliminate the need for a creator.... (Which BTW is another Tautology / Circular reasoning as anatomic similarities would ALSO mean MANY genetic similarities) LOL...

"Some interpretations fit the facts, and some don't. Yours doesn't work."

Still preaching into the mirror I see.. Lol..


"The fact that the genes of organisms show a family tree of descent indicates common ancestry."

MORE tautologies / circular reasoning? Evolutionists are quite adept at them, much like with Dating methods and "Index Fossils" (I can explain that for you as well if you like!)

"If they were all similarly alike, that would not show common descent."

Another assertion based on imagination and the desperate attempt to explain away Gods creation SANS the need for God.. Ironic isnt it?

"And we can check that idea by looking at organisms of known descent."

You gave an example of HUMANS as "organisms of known descent"!!!!! HOW on Earth does that demonstrate the fairytale that Humans share a descendant with strawberries, cockroaches, pine trees, whales, bats, rats, goldfish, sea otters, bananas, bugambilia and lady bugs????????? You know, the Fairytale that YOU believe in?


"It wasn't a theory until Darwin's predictions were repeatedly confirmed by evidence"

AHAHAHAH. Like I said, I an finally starting to catch on to your unusual sense of humor... This is another knee slapper! Bwahahahh

THE THEORY OF EVERYTHING!
By JT

"Evolution" "Predicts" EVERYTHING

So they have ALL THE BASES COVERED!!!!

1 Instant "Evolution" (One Generation) Hopeful Monsters / SALTATION

2 Fast "Evolution" PUNCTUATED EQUILIBRIUM

3 Slow ..Plodding Methodological "Evolution" DARWINIAN MODEL

4 Non Existent "Evolution" 500 MYO LIVING FOSSILS

So evolution happens....

(1) INSTANTLY

(2) QUICKLY

(3) SLOWLY

(4) NEVER

The predictive power of "Evolution" is sure amazing isnt it? LOL

"It is impossible by micro-mutation to form any new species" Richard Goldschmidt

EVOLUTIONARY SCIENTIST AND INVENTOR OF HOPEFUL MONSTERS LUNACY..

"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled Atheist"

Richard Dawkins

BT . Please dont go away... I love exposing Satans Fairytale for others to see so they can realize that we have all been lied to... Have a wonderful day! JT

"I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially to the extant that it's been applied, will be one of the greatest jokes in the history books of the future. Posterity will marvel that so flimsy and dubious a hypothesis could be accepted with the incredible credulity that it has."

(Malcolm Muggeridge)