Why do you believe?

SkyWriting · May 31, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
In what ways do you see these as corresponding? I believe a thing exists because of the sight, touch, smell, sound or perhaps some other evidence I can interact with -- how can this be applied to God?

It works just the same way except it's not visible to others.
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SkyWriting · May 31, 2018

Doug Melven said:
Philisophical arguments are worthless.
But how do you respond when your faith in Jesus is questioned?
What about when a fellow believer is beginning to have doubts about what he believes?
How do you know the Bible is true?

Then why pay for a PhD?

YouAreAwesome · May 31, 2018

SkyWriting said:
It works just the same way except it's not visible to others.

If it works in the same way, with which sense does a person experience God? Sight? Smell? etc. For example, if I am standing in front of a person, I can see them. I do not see them if I try really hard or only every now and then. If they are there, I see them. Is this the same with God? Is there some personal experience a person can use as "proof" at any time? Do you know what I mean? I can choose to look and see something and decide it exists. What can I do with God?

Doug Melven · May 31, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
Why must God be holy?

He is the Creator of all creation and thus set apart from His creation.
Or His creation is set apart from Him.
He would have to set rules for those tending His creation otherwise we would have chaos. And those rules must be obeyed.

SkyWriting said:
Then why pay for a PhD?

Why indeed?
The foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of man.

redblue22 · May 31, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
Can you explain what you mean about "degrees of belief"? Do you mean a person might believe a little bit but still think that what they believe could be wrong, while others might believe a lot and have very little doubt that what they believe is the truth? And why can't belief boil down to just one reason?

We are to grow in our faith and belief. That indicates that we do believe, but we do not believe 100%. There is room to grow.

redblue22 · May 31, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Then why pay for a PhD?

A PhD is a professional degree.

section9+1 · May 31, 2018

I believe because I choose to. It makes the most sense to me.

adhidw · Jun 1, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
I am interested in the fundamental logic for a persons belief system.

For example, if someone tells me they are a Christian, I might ask the question, "So why are you a Christian?".
The person might respond, "Because I believe in Jesus".
I might continue, "And why do you believe in Jesus?".
They may respond, "Because Jesus came onto the earth to live and die for us".
I might ask, "How do you know this is true?".
They might say, "Because the Bible tells me".
I then would ask, "How do you know the Bible is true?".
They may say, "Because it was written by men appointed by God".
I naturally ask, "How do you know these men were appointed by God?".
They would respond, "Because the Bible says they were".
I would rephrase, "So you are a Christian because the authors of a book say they are appointed by God to teach you to be a Christian?".
They might respond, "Yes, because these authors recorded the history of God's interaction with humankind".
I may respond, "So if the Bible was shown to be false, you wouldn't believe in Jesus or God?".

From the above conversation I might conclude that the Bible is the foundation of a Christian's belief system. But this might not be true of all Christians. Some might have their foundations in an experience or the philosophical underpinning of theism etc. I am interested in the absolute foundation of why people believe what they believe.

I would very much appreciate your reasons for belief.

Psal19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

19:3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

Isa65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

I cannot describe at what time it started, it is Him that makes me be.

If we ponder about this planet and the billions of lives inside, where just only one kinds of species that has an exponentially growth in knowledge and absolutely none for others , doesn’t it make us wonder why ?, is it by chance ? or by design ? , surely the almighty one who could do it and surely He had a great plan before these things come to pass ( planned before the creation of the world ) , fortunately He gave us His words that can help us comprehend about His great plan .

About this very special species with exponential growth in knowledge, is there any relation with the tree of knowledge about good and evil in the garden of Eden ? if it came by chance what theory of science can tells it ?, how about with others species that with no growth at all ? is there any relation with Gen9:2 ?

Gen9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered

If the bible just only a man made book , How could man in that age ( thousands of years ago ) where technology not yet developed so high did/comprehend well ?, more over :we know now that “ salvation is by God’s Grace alone “ meant: “ man will never be able to achieve his salvation or others by his own efforts /works unless being bestowed “ or likened “ who works on Sabbath day shall be punished to dead = Sabbath law ” How could it be introduced already far before Adam and Eve fell Gen2:3 ? , is it logic ? , have we ever asked why should there be the seventh day if the creation had already been done in the sixth day unless there was another message that in the thousands of years later will be opened clearly .

Gen2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made

Just from His words I am seeing Him.

Neostarwcc · Jun 1, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
I am interested in the fundamental logic for a persons belief system.

For example, if someone tells me they are a Christian, I might ask the question, "So why are you a Christian?".
The person might respond, "Because I believe in Jesus".
I might continue, "And why do you believe in Jesus?".
They may respond, "Because Jesus came onto the earth to live and die for us".
I might ask, "How do you know this is true?".
They might say, "Because the Bible tells me".
I then would ask, "How do you know the Bible is true?".
They may say, "Because it was written by men appointed by God".
I naturally ask, "How do you know these men were appointed by God?".
They would respond, "Because the Bible says they were".
I would rephrase, "So you are a Christian because the authors of a book say they are appointed by God to teach you to be a Christian?".
They might respond, "Yes, because these authors recorded the history of God's interaction with humankind".
I may respond, "So if the Bible was shown to be false, you wouldn't believe in Jesus or God?".

From the above conversation I might conclude that the Bible is the foundation of a Christian's belief system. But this might not be true of all Christians. Some might have their foundations in an experience or the philosophical underpinning of theism etc. I am interested in the absolute foundation of why people believe what they believe.

I would very much appreciate your reasons for belief.

I honestly don't know what caused me to believe in Jesus. I don't really remember. When I first came to Jesus I barely even picked up a Bible let alone knew what one was. I started reading Genesis a bit like 8 years ago and decided the Bible was full of crap when it said that Adam lived for like 750 years. so my reasoning had nothing to do with the Bible. I just for some reason or another always believed that Jesus walked this Earth as a historical figure. This belief didn't come from the Bible it came from my mother. My mother is another person who believes in Jesus yet, never really touched a Bible in her life besides the little bit that the Catholic church covers.

I guess if I remember correctly, I started believing in Jesus (And in God because I was an atheist before I came to Jesus) because I started to believe in him on my own. God slowly changed my heart into a heart that would one day believe in Jesus and believe in the Trinity and that Jesus was God and all that other good stuff. I was called to Christianity slowly over the course of time. It took until I was like 27 years old for me to finally come to Jesus and when I did I NEVER will look back. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

I mean... the internet played a large role in my conversion. I would look up stuff about the afterlife because I was curious and many of the websites I happened to click on were about Christianity and how we can have a comfortable afterlife with Jesus. So, I guess you could say, the internet converted me. But, really. I was just called to Christianity. I didn't really come to it on my own.

ShirleyMontreal · Jun 1, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
In what ways do you see these as corresponding? I believe a thing exists because of the sight, touch, smell, sound or perhaps some other evidence I can interact with -- how can this be applied to God?

God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit
Therefore we humans can connect to God with the Spirit He has given us
Besides sight touch and smell, we also have feelings. When you Love God, you feel His Spirit.
I don't need to explain why I beleive in God or what makes me Christian. I simply Love God
In the same way one might ask a parent why do you love your child. The parent replies I just do.

112358 · Jun 1, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
If it works in the same way, with which sense does a person experience God? Sight? Smell? etc. For example, if I am standing in front of a person, I can see them. I do not see them if I try really hard or only every now and then. If they are there, I see them. Is this the same with God? Is there some personal experience a person can use as "proof" at any time? Do you know what I mean? I can choose to look and see something and decide it exists. What can I do with God?

God's attributes can be experienced through all of our senses. Sight, smell, touch, taste, sound. We can know of Him by observing that which He created. As surely as night follows day. He has revealed Himself to us through His creation. The Bible happens to teach this, but we don't particularly need the Bible to understand this aspect of our nature. That is, our physical or material nature.

Call it philosophy if you wish, but ultimately the existence of the universe is most logically explained by a Creator. It takes a much larger "leap of faith" to say that something came from nothing. This is how He established the systems that govern His creation. They were instituted by miraculous means through which only He is capable. Thereafter, they are governed by His immutable laws. Laws like gravity, electricity, aerodynamics, biogenesis, the list is practically endless. All of our progress and innovation and scientific endeavor are nothing but the discovery and application of God's natural, immutable, laws.

These laws are a reflection of another, completely different, aspect of our created nature. That is our spiritual nature. That is the part of our nature created "in Our image", or "in Our likeness", these are God's invisible attributes. And for this part of our nature, we do need the Bible. That is why He has given it to us.

PaulCyp1 · Jun 1, 2018

I believe what I believe because Jesus Christ repeatedly demonstrated that He was God by doing things only God could do. These events were recorded by multiple eye witnesses, making them available for future generations. The one Church Jesus founded, to which He promised "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me", compiled some of these historical documents into a book for easy reference, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they selected only those documents God wanted selected, and their interpretation of those texts are the infallible Word of God.

PaulCyp1 · Jun 1, 2018

I believe because Jesus Christ repeatedly demonstrated that He was God, by doing things only God could possibly do. These events were documented by multiple eye witnesses. The writings of these eye witnesses were gathered into a book for easy reference, by leaders of the one Church Jesus Christ founded, to which He promised "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Therefore, they were guided to include in this book only those texts God wanted included. And, their interpretations of those tests are guaranteed accurate by God Himself. Which is why that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in biblical understanding, ONE in worship throughout the world after 2,000 years, while those who have defected from His Church, and attempted to self-interpret the Bible, have fragmented into thousands of conflicting manmade denominations teaching thousands of contradictory, and therefore false, beliefs, in just a few hundred years. You just can't beat God's plan.

Yekcidmij · Jun 1, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
I am interested in the fundamental logic for a persons belief system.

For example, if someone tells me they are a Christian, I might ask the question, "So why are you a Christian?".
The person might respond, "Because I believe in Jesus".
I might continue, "And why do you believe in Jesus?".
They may respond, "Because Jesus came onto the earth to live and die for us".
I might ask, "How do you know this is true?".
They might say, "Because the Bible tells me".
I then would ask, "How do you know the Bible is true?".
They may say, "Because it was written by men appointed by God".
I naturally ask, "How do you know these men were appointed by God?".
They would respond, "Because the Bible says they were".
I would rephrase, "So you are a Christian because the authors of a book say they are appointed by God to teach you to be a Christian?".
They might respond, "Yes, because these authors recorded the history of God's interaction with humankind".
I may respond, "So if the Bible was shown to be false, you wouldn't believe in Jesus or God?".

From the above conversation I might conclude that the Bible is the foundation of a Christian's belief system. But this might not be true of all Christians. Some might have their foundations in an experience or the philosophical underpinning of theism etc. I am interested in the absolute foundation of why people believe what they believe.

I would very much appreciate your reasons for belief.

First, of course the bible would be foundation to Christian belief. How else would one know about Christian particulars?

Second, saying the bible could be "shown to be false" sounds to me the equivalent of saying, "...what if the library were proven false?" Neither makes sense because both are collections of independent works by multiple authors and those works would have to be considered on their own merits and according to their own claims. The bible is considered a unity because Jews and Christians have more or less (and I think more so than less) recognized these particular works as authoritative of God's revelation.

Third, I personally think that belief in God is itself foundational. Even the bible itself seems to assume his existence (it certainly never argues for it) and probably wouldn't even make sense if the authors didn't assume that there was one God and that one God was Yahweh. For example, I doubt you get Christian belief from the resurrection of Jesus without the needed axiom of Yahweh being God.

YouAreAwesome said:
And why can't belief boil down to just one reason?

Few beliefs boil down to one reason because beliefs are complex and complex things are usually determined by multiple factors. Unlike many people, I take things like Occam's Razor to be rules of thumb, and not inherit features of the universe.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 1, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
I am interested in the fundamental logic for a persons belief system.

For example, if someone tells me they are a Christian, I might ask the question, "So why are you a Christian?".
The person might respond, "Because I believe in Jesus".
I might continue, "And why do you believe in Jesus?".
They may respond, "Because Jesus came onto the earth to live and die for us".
I might ask, "How do you know this is true?".
They might say, "Because the Bible tells me".
I then would ask, "How do you know the Bible is true?".
They may say, "Because it was written by men appointed by God".
I naturally ask, "How do you know these men were appointed by God?".
They would respond, "Because the Bible says they were".
I would rephrase, "So you are a Christian because the authors of a book say they are appointed by God to teach you to be a Christian?".
They might respond, "Yes, because these authors recorded the history of God's interaction with humankind".
I may respond, "So if the Bible was shown to be false, you wouldn't believe in Jesus or God?".

From the above conversation I might conclude that the Bible is the foundation of a Christian's belief system. But this might not be true of all Christians. Some might have their foundations in an experience or the philosophical underpinning of theism etc. I am interested in the absolute foundation of why people believe what they believe.

I would very much appreciate your reasons for belief.

I believe the Bible tells the truth or is true because I have tested its teachings in real life and found them to be validated. That is, the "theory" resented in the Bible has shown to be accurate in describing or predicting what it describes or predicts.

Ergo, since the parts I can test and have tested have been shown to be true, much more so than any other option or "theory," I also accept the bits I cannot test.

The other element is the relationship I have with the person of God, Himself. This developed by accepting the truth presented to me and responding accordingly.

marineimaging · Jun 1, 2018

YouAreAwesome said:
I am interested in the fundamental logic for a persons belief system.

For example, if someone tells me they are a Christian, I might ask the question, "So why are you a Christian?".
The person might respond, "Because I believe in Jesus".
I might continue, "And why do you believe in Jesus?".
They may respond, "Because Jesus came onto the earth to live and die for us".
I might ask, "How do you know this is true?".
They might say, "Because the Bible tells me".
I then would ask, "How do you know the Bible is true?".
They may say, "Because it was written by men appointed by God".
I naturally ask, "How do you know these men were appointed by God?".
They would respond, "Because the Bible says they were".
I would rephrase, "So you are a Christian because the authors of a book say they are appointed by God to teach you to be a Christian?".
They might respond, "Yes, because these authors recorded the history of God's interaction with humankind".
I may respond, "So if the Bible was shown to be false, you wouldn't believe in Jesus or God?".

From the above conversation I might conclude that the Bible is the foundation of a Christian's belief system. But this might not be true of all Christians. Some might have their foundations in an experience or the philosophical underpinning of theism etc. I am interested in the absolute foundation of why people believe what they believe.

I would very much appreciate your reasons for belief.

My reasons for belief in God through Jesus are that I heard the word and answered and gave Christ my soul. After that came belief in the Holy Spirit and with that were several experiences of a sort that could only be explained as being by our Lord and Savior. The first as a boat was sinking under me in Alaska. The second I was just working in my shop and asking questions and the answer was presented by John and Jesus standing behind him. He said, "and I tell you that all the books in the world could not contain what Jesus did." From that moment on my eyes were opened. The third was when I was climbing a rock face and got stuck and could not go up or down. My brother in law ran to get his rescue gear and rope (he was a deputy sheriff there). As I was waiting a hand pushed me up and over the edge and I was sitting on a rock as calm as could be when he came over the opposite side trail. He was dumbfounded and asked how in the world I got up. I couldn't tell him much except what happened. An angel (I didn't believe in angels until that day.) pushed me up and over the edge and sat me on the rock. Of course he wouldn't believe me but it didn't matter to me any more. I have had more encounters but they are between us. Sometimes I wish I had no experience so I could be blessed more by believing without seeing. But I will take the Love our Lord has shown me and be glad in it.

Lots of Questions · Jun 2, 2018

I guess it's because I take some coincidences happening in my life as being God telling me He's present there. I don't know if there's anything Biblical to support this though. And also because the friend I care about the most, currently, is very Christian. If it weren't for her I think my faith wouldn't be strong enough to stay in the church and I'd probably revert back to pantheism.
My parents are Christian but to be honest they've always scared me more than making me believe because they are quite conservative and closed minded and I often feel like Christianity is a wall between us.
Although I'd fall into the category of Catholic or Christian I often feel ashamed to show it to people because I don't think I'm a good Christian. I don't like portraying me as someone who follows Jesus when I pretty often fail to live up to the bare minimum of what He'd expect from me, and because I'm full of doubt and my faith is quite weak. I feel like I have no way to "prove" God exists or any relevant reason to explain why I believe.
Examples of those coincidences I mentioned could be:
-Times I was sure I failed an exam so I started praying in silence and passed.
-Recently I've been sort of separated from the church. I went to some Pentecost party thing, and afterwards in Mass they asked me to read the second scripture and it was my favorite letter by Paul (the one that says we are all parts of the same body).
-One time I did a Catholic retreat just for the heck of it. It was mostly about attending to hear talks. I kept thinking about topics I wanted to hear them address and every time I thought of one it turned out to be the next topic they talked about.
-Once I was feeling quite terrible and that friend I mentioned (who didn't know I was feeling bad because I hadn't seen her in a while) just texted me to go to some party thing with her.

Blade · Jun 2, 2018

You know always been around by the supernatural in some way or another. To ask me do I believe in Jesus.. its harder now. Well He's real. Do I believe in Santa Claws.. no lol. But Christ whom the people I was raised around.. Jesus was real. They prayed .. and He always answered. They believed the WORD and if ANYTHING they said was not written in the bible.. they told us never believe them. It was as if when I was young He was always waiting always wanting me.. as He does with all.

So being young you just .. talk and then you start reading that book and .. things would just jump out and I just believed.. so when He became real so to speak I dont know. Life happens to all of us. And you seem to get lost yet He never leaves.

Truth is.. He is my friend. Now when I think even know of my sons or my wife.. and then think of Him or our Father or the sweet sweet Holy Spirit.. Hes REAL! This might not make sence but with Him.. when I think of Him.. this REAL just exploads.. He is SO much more then REAL. Everything is Him. I AM is everything. Sorry just getting lost thinking about Him. What I don't do but desire most is.. every moment every thought every word I speak.. EVERYTHING I only want HIM and to do for HIM...yet

Its true.. at the start we draw near to Him.. and then He just lol LEAPS ahead and...to just BELIEVE

YouAreAwesome · Jun 2, 2018

SkyWriting said:
It works just the same way except it's not visible to others.

I would say this difference is quite a significant difference. With my senses, I can confirm what I am experiencing by asking others what they are experiencing. For example, "What do you see there?" I might ask, "I see a red ball" another might answer. I would also be seeing a red ball. With our spiritual senses you are saying there is no way for validation i.e. "except it's not visible to others". Thus basing our belief on our personal experience can not be qualified in the way our physical senses can be validated. I understand what you are saying but I think they are quite different.

redblue22 said:
We are to grow in our faith and belief. That indicates that we do believe, but we do not believe 100%. There is room to grow.

Does that mean all christians are actually agnostic to a more or lesser degree? (I am using the definition that agnostic means "not sure if there is a God or not").

section9+1 said:
I believe because I choose to. It makes the most sense to me.

Why do you choose to believe? What about it makes sense to you?

adhidw said:
where just only one kinds of species that has an exponentially growth in knowledge and absolutely none for others

Is your foundational belief how humans have grown in knowledge?

Neostarwcc said:
I just for some reason or another always believed that Jesus walked this Earth as a historical figure.

Is your foundational belief that Jesus walked on the earth as a real person?

ShirleyMontreal said:
Besides sight touch and smell, we also have feelings. When you Love God, you feel His Spirit.

Indeed. But what about those of other religions that also claim to feel peace about their beliefs?

112358 said:
Call it philosophy if you wish, but ultimately the existence of the universe is most logically explained by a Creator.

How do you move from "cause" to "Creator"? Existence of the universe is most logically explained by a cause, I agree, but how do you make the jump from cause to Creator?

Dorothy Mae said:
I believe the Bible tells the truth or is true because I have tested its teachings in real life and found them to be validated.

What have you tested and validated? (Specifics please )

redblue22 · Jun 2, 2018

If I believed 99/100, would you call that agnostic?

Why do you believe?

What is the primary reason you believe what you believe?

A. Philosophical reasons for the existence of God

B. Personal experience with God

C. The Bible

D. Because Jesus existed as God on earth

E. My parents raised me to believe what I believe

F. I don't know

G. Other (Please explain further in the thread)

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