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Why do you believe in the evolution theory?

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SteveB28

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this sort of thing always makes me chuckle.
regardless of what the origins of life is connected to, there is still no proof that life "arose" from the elements.

Every time you attempt to reference "proof" to the scientific process, you reveal your complete ignorance of that process. A deep, yawning chasm of ignorance.

another thing, why is it you must continually point this out to people?
could it be that people got this impression from what they were taught in school?

This explanation only ever has to be pointed out to those of a creationist mindset. And my feeling is that these people actually know that evolution theory has nothing at all to do with the origins of life, but it enables a convenient whipping boy to be flogged on a regular basis.


if evolution disowns the origins of life then that should be spelled out to our students.

I can only speak for my own education. We were clearly taught that evolution was about the descent of species and had nothing to do with the first appearance of living things. If your own system of education has been deficient in this regard, then look to that system, not to the theory.

actually, evolution is all about a "no god" scenario in regards to life and its diversity and does indeed include the origins of life.

You wish that it were so, in order that you might shift your argument away from the failed attempt to attack the theory on scientific grounds and towards a theological impetus. You are hopelessly out of your depth and completely wrong.
 
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Gracchus

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life might not be composed of "elements".
a certain configuration of these elements might make it possible for life to manifest itself.
Life is the change in energy state of elemental configurations involving self-catalyzing molecules in sequestered environments.
life and the living cell might be 2 entirely different things.
Not entirely separate! No cell means no life. No life means the cell is not living. Life is a process, a change in energy states, a subset of all chemistry, which is in turn, a subset of physics. You cannot separate life from the cell any more than you can separate a ripple from a river.
it could also be that life never arose at all, it has always been here.
Where is "here"? Since the Earth is only about four and a half billion years old, the "here" where life has always existed cannot be the Earth. Since the universe is observable only to the place and time where plasma began to fall to a temperature that enabled electrons to be captured by protons, there could have been no life before that.
i'm not prepared to call college educated teachers "ignorant" or "unqualified".
Admitting your lack of preparation is admirable. It demonstrates that yu are not completely out of touch with reality. But someone who majored in PE, English or even mathematics is not necessarily qualified to teach biology.
when someone brings this up, ask them why they think the way they do.
OK! Why do you think the way you do?
this stuff belongs on the shoulders of those that approve our text books.
But you don't seem to be satisfied with the decisions they have made!
yes, that's what science is supposed to be about.
That is, indeed, what science is about. What is apparent, is that your understanding of science is seriously deficient.
i have clearly demonstrated that this is not the case with evolution.
You have made assertions. I have not seen any demonstrations.
I note that you joined this forum barely two weeks ago, so you may not be aware of the oft-repeated challenge: If you have refuted the theory of biological evolution, publish your findings and buy a trip to Stockholm to collect your Nobel Prize.
it isn't just the creationists, it's the darwinists too, that are willing to go as far as willful blindness.
Willful blindness and cognitive dissonance are common to all humans. That is why science has set standards for peer review and publication. Science is about exposition.
By the way, you cannot mask the target of your attacks by using the term "darwinists" when you refer to biologists or other scientists you disagree with. It is biology, science itself, that you disagree with, not just Darwin. Of course, religion is always a personality cult, whether the personality is real or not. Science is the universe aware of itself, and thus there are no individual personalities involved.
like i said before: creationists can be excused.
If you are saying they can't help being mistaken, I can give tentative agreement.
there is NO excuse for the other.
Science reports replicable observations which for convenience we call "facts". It explains those facts in well tested bundles of facts and reasoning called "theories". It's all in the open.
Scientists are not required to apologize because the facts and reasoning are offensive to someone's superstitions, or because theories are too difficult for minds insufficiently trained and instructed.

:wave:
 
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AV1611VET

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Did you mean evolution or abiogenesis?
Evolution.

I believe the Antichrist is going to incorporate the hypothesis-theory of abiogenesis into the theory of evolution and make it one unified theory.
 
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AV1611VET

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The anti Christ is a creationist?

:confused:
Probably a theistic evolutionist.

And theistic evolutionists, according to Wikipedia, are indeed creationists.
 
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mzungu

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i disagree.
it's one thing, a no god explanation to life on earth.
it falls flat on its face in regards to abiogenesis.
This is totally irrelevant to the origin of species being a different thing to origin of life.
the concept of transposons make "small accumulating changes" ludicrous.
the fossil records does not support "ape to man".
there are no experiments that determine any kind of change for an organism. it's never been observed so it's assumed "it takes a long time".
i await those that will cloud the issue by saying we HAVE observed change.
to those i say "you know exactly what i'm talking about".
tear it apart brother, see what you REALLY know about evolution.
You have just betrayed a total lack of understanding of what the Theory of Evolution is all about.
i know what your reasoning is.
you reason that since "god" sounds so ludicrous then evolution MUST be true.
and that simply is not the case.
i do know this, we will never know by blindly following the leader.
Far from it; the Theory of Evolution is the most scrutinised and peer reviewed of all Theories and has passed with flying colours. You don't get many Theories that are as sound as ToE.
i state a fact when i say "evolution is all about life with no god".
Show me where it says that in ToE?
ok, now what?
the fact still remains, life comes from life, you know biogenesis.

evidence . . . or lack thereof.
Lack of evidence of Abiogenesis is not evidence of Creationism. You have just made the cardinal error laymen do when through their lack of scientific erudition come to conclusions that are erroneous and scientifically unsound and unfounded.:wave:
 
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Split Rock

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this sort of thing always makes me chuckle.
regardless of what the origins of life is connected to, there is still no proof that life "arose" from the elements.
No there is not. It is an hypothesis.

another thing, why is it you must continually point this out to people? could it be that people got this impression from what they were taught in school?
Quite possibly. Science is taught poorly in this country. Maybe it is because they are both taught during the same time period in biology classes. They are usually different chapters in textbooks, however.

if evolution disowns the origins of life then that should be spelled out to our students.
I have no issue with this suggestion.

actually, evolution is all about a "no god" scenario in regards to life and its diversity and does indeed include the origins of life.
No, you do NOT get tell biologists what their theories say. Sorry. :wave:
 
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Split Rock

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i disagree.
it's one thing, a no god explanation to life on earth.
Science does not deal with any deities. Thus no scientific theory takes your god into consideration. None.

it falls flat on its face in regards to abiogenesis.
What does? Something that it does not cover?

the concept of transposons make "small accumulating changes" ludicrous.
Please explain why this is the case.

the fossil records does not support "ape to man".
Really? What is Homo erectus, then?

there are no experiments that determine any kind of change for an organism. it's never been observed so it's assumed "it takes a long time".
Nonsense. We see evolutionary change all the time. Stickleback Evolution

i await those that will cloud the issue by saying we HAVE observed change.
How does it "cloud the issue" by pointing out your statement is incorrect?

to those i say "you know exactly what i'm talking about".
tear it apart brother, see what you REALLY know about evolution.
Maybe you should learn to express your points better. Do you have one to make?

i know what your reasoning is.
you reason that since "god" sounds so ludicrous then evolution MUST be true.
No, it is not. Nice straw man, though.

and that simply is not the case.
See above.

i do know this, we will never know by blindly following the leader.
Like blindly following the writers of the Bible?

i state a fact when i say "evolution is all about life with no god".
Like I said, all scientific theories are "with no god."

ok, now what?
the fact still remains, life comes from life, you know biogenesis.
Currently, yes.

evidence . . . or lack thereof.
Where is your evidence? Why is it that you demand "evidence" from others here, but provide none for any of your assertions?
 
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bhsmte

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There is no good reason not to support evolution. We do not live in a static world as if God painted a picture to look at. Our world and the life in it is dynamic and is forever changing over time.

I agree.

With that said, you will find some, who simply need to be "anti-evolution" for ideological reasons.

It can be quite entertaining to watch them in action though.
 
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sfs

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i disagree.
it's one thing, a no god explanation to life on earth.
it falls flat on its face in regards to abiogenesis.
the concept of transposons make "small accumulating changes" ludicrous.
the fossil records does not support "ape to man".
there are no experiments that determine any kind of change for an organism. it's never been observed so it's assumed "it takes a long time".
i await those that will cloud the issue by saying we HAVE observed change.
to those i say "you know exactly what i'm talking about".
tear it apart brother, see what you REALLY know about evolution.
I really know quite a lot about evolution (though there's far more that I don't know). You, on the other hand, seem to know almost nothing about the subject. That fact makes your patronizing dismissal of most of biology look rather silly. I suggest you try a different approach.

i know what your reasoning is.
you reason that since "god" sounds so ludicrous then evolution MUST be true.
and that simply is not the case.
i do know this, we will never know by blindly following the leader.

i state a fact when i say "evolution is all about life with no god".
This is true, if by "I state a fact" you mean "I'm making up an obvious falsehood." Given the many millions of people who both believe in God and accept evolution, your statement is ludicrously false.
 
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Davian

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Evolution.

I believe the Antichrist is going to incorporate the hypothesis-theory of abiogenesis into the theory of evolution and make it one unified theory.

Does vilifying science make you feel that your religion better reflects reality?
 
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whois

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I really know quite a lot about evolution (though there's far more that I don't know).
you ain't just yanking my chain are you?
You, on the other hand, seem to know almost nothing about the subject.
you are exactly right.
maybe you can slap me upside the head with some of this nonexistent evidence.

the first piece of evidence you can help me with is the matter of "accumulating change".
where is this evidence?
 
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Loudmouth

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you ain't just yanking my chain are you?

He is not. He is a scientist working in the field.

you are exactly right.
maybe you can slap me upside the head with some of this nonexistent evidence.

the first piece of evidence you can help me with is the matter of "accumulating change".
where is this evidence?

The evidence is two-fold.

First, we have direct observations of mutations happening in living species. Each human is born with about 50 mutations. This happens in every generation. Since you contribute half of your genome to each offspring, your child will have 25 of the mutations that are specific to you, 25 of the mutations from their other parent, and 50 mutations of their very own. In two generations, we are up to 100 mutations. Each generation in a lineage will add 50 more mutations. There is simply no way around this.

Second, we can compare the genomes of living species that share a common ancestor. When we do this with chimps and humans, we can see which mutations have accumulated over the last 5 million years in each lineage. Since you are interested in trasposons, you may want to check out table 2 in the chimp genome paper:

Table 2 : Initial sequence of the chimpanzee genome and comparison with the human genome : Nature

You will see that Alu and LINE-1 elements account for 7 million bases of the differences between the two species. The total number of bases that separate humans and chimps, including indels, is 100 million bases (substitions at 35 million and indels at 70 million). Transposons make up about 5 to 10% of the overall differences between chimps and humans on a per base comparison.
 
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AV1611VET

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One example is when I compare modern science to tares.

And not just tares, but tares that are now starting to outgrow the wheat.

I think that's a good way to compare what is going in the science vs "religion" department today.

I also believe that, just as Adam turned the world over to Satan; modern scientists have turned science over to Satan as well.

Letting him infiltrate science with a few of his minions (viz., muses).
 
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